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Road Etiquette Whilst on going thru Red with clear road on all sides

ajmitchellajmitchell Posts: 203
edited August 2016 in Road general
Hi please advise or give your opinion as a fellow cyclist:

Lets say I am on the main road (b road single carraige way) where the arrow is and I come to a stop on RED mainly for traffic on a small side road on the left. Traffic filters and then goes to RED for traffic then the pedestrian light turns to green man on side road. The road is clear ahead and to the side for cars and there are no pedestrians. Even though I am on red, can I proceed onto pavement (cutting my about 1m) then cross on green man then continue on main road (blue path??). Alternatively can I cautious proceed on the road (yellow route??) even though I effectively go though red by only a few seconds before it changes to green. The advantage of this is that going through exactly on green tends to get you squeezed to the left hand edge by traffic or worse they cut you up turning immediately left. By going slightly ahead it avoids any aggro at the junction. To clarify I am not riding stright through RED. I am coming to a stop and setting off slightly early just before green. OK I know its not good to go through red but its often a lot safer in my opinion. Please advise.

Illustration of junction:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qb099mx3qw72x ... n.jpg?dl=0
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Posts

  • jgsijgsi Posts: 5,029
    Ride as you feel fit mate, if you get caught out by being involved in a collision or whatever, just have your excuses ready.
    I really dont care what you do... in fact I've given you far too much of my time already.
  • xdocxdoc Posts: 331
    What would you do if driving a car?....QED
  • Frank WilsonFrank Wilson Posts: 930
    To be honest I couldn't be bothered reading after the first line.
  • fat daddyfat daddy Posts: 2,605
    Surely the "Etiquette" of breaking road laws and increasing animosity between drivers, pedestrians and cyclists is to give every one around you the middle finger as you jump the red ??
  • PTestTeamPTestTeam Posts: 395
    ajmitchell wrote:
    Hi please advise or give your opinion as a fellow cyclist:

    Lets say I am on the main road (b road single carraige way) where the arrow is and I come to a stop on RED mainly for traffic on a small side road on the left. Traffic filters and then goes to RED for traffic then the pedestrian light turns to green man on side road. The road is clear ahead and to the side for cars and there are no pedestrians. Even though I am on red, can I proceed onto pavement (cutting my about 1m) then cross on green man then continue on main road (blue path??). Alternatively can I cautious proceed on the road (yellow route??) even though I effectively go though red by only a few seconds before it changes to green. The advantage of this is that going through exactly on green tends to get you squeezed to the left hand edge by traffic or worse they cut you up turning immediately left. By going slightly ahead it avoids any aggro at the junction. To clarify I am not riding stright through RED. I am coming to a stop and setting off slightly early just before green. OK I know its not good to go through red but its often a lot safer in my opinion. Please advise.

    Illustration of junction:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/qb099mx3qw72x ... n.jpg?dl=0

    If you're asking other riders opinion on this manoevre, you must already feel guilty about doing it
  • amrushtonamrushton Posts: 1,040
    You could read the Highway Code or 'Roadcraft' but what would you do if you were in a car? Why not just adopt primary position, set off and move over to the left if safe to do so?
  • cougiecougie Posts: 22,512
    There's no etiquette. It's the law. Stop at the red light.

    Are there other laws that don't apply to you?
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    ajmitchell wrote:
    OK I know its not good to go through red

    This is all you need to remember to answer your question. It's not good so don't do it.

    Next on Bike Radar. Dinner party etiquette for going for a dump on the table.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • vinnymarsdenvinnymarsden Posts: 560
    So, you go through a red, because no matter how you dress it up..thats what you are doing…you get swiped by a car..or you knock a small child down on the path…are you going to say…its okay, someone on Bike Radar said I was fine doing this!!
    No you're not, because quite frankly its wrong..and its one of the reasons people are becoming hostile to cyclists…ridden correctly you can generally, in a built up area at least hold your own with traffic…but when you start making illegal manoeuvres to get even further ahead then the bored/tired/fed up of waiting drivers look at you, and we all know what they think/say to their mates etc, and the views, albeit generally wrong are entrenched..they only need to see it once to think all cyclists are the same..thankfully we are not…so my advice…for what you will save, its not worth the grief and anger as the car that waited draws VERY closely alongside and berates you for being a bit of a tool..just my 2pennorth...
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 17,773
    It will go red for pedestrians before it goes green for cars. I know there are junctions where I start rolling forward in that second because it is safer for me to be more visible to cars behind (and I know the sequencing). If you are asking whether it is legal, the answer is clearly no.
  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,498
    ajmitchell wrote:
    Hi please advise or give your opinion as a fellow cyclist:

    Even though I am on red, can I proceed onto pavement (cutting my about 1m) then cross on green man then continue on main road (blue path??). Alternatively can I cautious proceed on the road (yellow route??) even though I effectively go though red by only a few seconds before it changes to green. The advantage of this is that going through exactly on green tends to get you squeezed to the left hand edge by traffic or worse they cut you up turning immediately left. By going slightly ahead it avoids any aggro at the junction.

    You can get off your bike and walk it across the pedestrian crossing when indicated. Doing this will avoid breaking the highway code, potentially enranging the driver behind you who thinks that all cyclists jump red lights and avoid any vehicles turning left over you. It's probably also a quicker way to cross the junction at that time.
  • ajmitchellajmitchell Posts: 203
    edited July 2016
    ok thanks for the advice. I guess walking across the side road crossing is one way to go. Personally I'd like to see more junctions where there are bike boxes at the front and this would reduce the problem. I'd also like to see a 4 way traffic light where cyclists are released 10 seconds ahead of cars but I realise I am dreaming.

    Bike box. bike-box-lloyd-blvd-portland_or.jpg

    Bike traffic light First-UK-Low-Level-Traffic-Lights-Launched2.jpg
  • ajmitchellajmitchell Posts: 203
    Just found a whole article on this topic called "treating red as a give way for cyclists"

    http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... hts-137049

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cy ... 078649.ece
  • noodlemannoodleman Posts: 852
    Three reasons not to do it. Firstly it's illegal. Secondly you have can no valid reason to want to do it. And thirdly, and the bit that annoys me the most, is that it gives the rest of us a bad name and gives cycle haters more reason to want us to stick to riding in woods and on cycle paths.
    argon 18 e116 2013 Vision Metron 80
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    S Works Tarmac e-tap 2017
    Rose pro sl disc
  • socratessocrates Posts: 453
    Etiquette does not come into it.
  • fenixfenix Posts: 5,437
    No amount of articles matter aj - don't do it.
  • debelidebeli Posts: 583
    What would you gain? You can measure the benefit in seconds.

    What would you usefully do with those seconds once gained?

    Etiquette might be defined in many ways, but the definition should always include politeness.

    I am a terrible and persistent hopper of red lights when cycling, but I do not seek to justify it. If I come a cropper one day, I will deserve it. I ought to grow up.

    But I do not seek to justify or excuse my occasionally errant behaviour. I hop red lights because I feel like it and because I reason (sic) to myself that on this occasion it is safe and I am incommoding nobody. One day I will be wrong.

    Do as you please, but do not seek to mitigate or justify daftness on the public internets. They are not for that.
  • stevewjstevewj Posts: 227
    Bike box. bike-box-lloyd-blvd-portland_or.jpg

    I think this is photo-shopped - I can't believe there is a bike only box there with two 4 x 4s behind it neither of which are in/across/ahead of the bike box.
  • N0bodyOfTheGoatN0bodyOfTheGoat Posts: 4,670
    The only time I ever red light jump is when I cycle commute, which brings me to a t-junction with lights that never sense the presence of a bike at quiet times, such as when I travel to work. Unless I hear/see a car approaching the junction behind me to trigger the lights, I carefully cycle across the junction and continue on my way.
    ================
    2020 Voodoo Marasa
    2017 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016
    2016 Voodoo Wazoo
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 10,220
    The only time I ever red light jump is when I cycle commute, which brings me to a t-junction with lights that never sense the presence of a bike at quiet times, such as when I travel to work. Unless I hear/see a car approaching the junction behind me to trigger the lights, I carefully cycle across the junction and continue on my way.
    Yeah there's a certain set on one of my after work rides where I have to wait for a car to pull up behind me before the lights will change. If it's late in the evening that can take a very long time! Usually what I do now if there's no cars to trigger the lights is pull up next to the pedestrian crossing button and press it, then cross the junction on the green man.

    But apart from very unusual circumstances like that I just obey the red lights...
  • KerguelenKerguelen Posts: 248
    ajmitchell wrote:
    Hi please advise or give your opinion as a fellow cyclist:

    Lets say I am on the main road (b road single carraige way) where the arrow is and I come to a stop on RED mainly for traffic on a small side road on the left. Traffic filters and then goes to RED for traffic then the pedestrian light turns to green man on side road. The road is clear ahead and to the side for cars and there are no pedestrians. Even though I am on red, can I proceed onto pavement (cutting my about 1m) then cross on green man then continue on main road (blue path??). Alternatively can I cautious proceed on the road (yellow route??) even though I effectively go though red by only a few seconds before it changes to green. The advantage of this is that going through exactly on green tends to get you squeezed to the left hand edge by traffic or worse they cut you up turning immediately left. By going slightly ahead it avoids any aggro at the junction. To clarify I am not riding stright through RED. I am coming to a stop and setting off slightly early just before green. OK I know its not good to go through red but its often a lot safer in my opinion. Please advise.

    Illustration of junction:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/qb099mx3qw72x ... n.jpg?dl=0

    Honestly can't believe I'm reading this.

    Your actions affect all of us.
  • muzzanmuzzan Posts: 203
    OK, one thing that has maybe been missed here is that AFAIK it would be perfectly legal to walk the bike across the road (on the appropriate section obvs) when the green man is on then get back on & continue. If the OP finds that he thinks this is worth it to save time then fair enough, personally there are almost no junctions I can be arsed doing this on.

    There are some junctions on my commute that can cost me 5 minutes at least if I get caught due to sequencing of lights etc, which is infuriating, but even then, cant be bothered to walk over. I would happily campaign for a change in the law to allow cyclists more leeway with red lights etc.

    I do wonder though. If the law was changed, would that make a huge difference in terms of "cycle haters" reaction to us going through red lights? I have my doubts.
  • noodlemannoodleman Posts: 852
    "More leeway with red lights". In what way?
    argon 18 e116 2013 Vision Metron 80
    Bianchi Oltre XR Sram Red E-tap, Fulcrum racing speed xlr
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    Rose pro sl disc
  • muzzanmuzzan Posts: 203
    Erm....in a "lee" kind of way.... :lol:

    No, just mean like what they are doing in paris and I believe some other cities, left turn filters for bikes or whatever, so they are allowed to proceed under certain circumstances when cars aren't.
  • tootsie323tootsie323 Posts: 199
    Red = Stop. Green = Go. Simple... isn't it?
  • bernithebikerbernithebiker Posts: 4,148
    It may be the law, but it many circumstances, the law does nothing to protect cyclists and puts you into dangerous situations. Witness the number of cycle deaths in London and other places.

    A cyclist is far safer to set off ahead of a line of traffic, as long as it is safe to do so, rather than be mixed up in said traffic, some of whom will be wanting to turn left or right.

    In Quimper we have little signs on many traffic lights that allow cyclists to proceed across reds, albeit with caution and checking it's clear.
  • TashmanTashman Posts: 2,828
    Around Brighton now at some junctions there are lights that allow cyclists to continue along the left of the main road (separated by a bus lane) while liht controlled traffic is joining from the minor road. Some other also go green for cyclists a few seconds before the larger traffic, allowing them to get moving and stable before everything else.
  • d_o_gd_o_g Posts: 286
    All traffic lights, road signs and markings should be treated as advisory only, when in any vehicle.

    Of course, the advice includes the associated consequences of acting contrary to the applicable laws.

    What I'm saying is, you should make up your own mind as to what your actions should be, the blanket 'don't do it, it's illegal' is not an intelligent argument.
  • noodlemannoodleman Posts: 852
    D O G wrote:
    All traffic lights, road signs and markings should be treated as advisory only, when in any vehicle.

    Of course, the advice includes the associated consequences of acting contrary to the applicable laws.

    What I'm saying is, you should make up your own mind as to what your actions should be, the blanket 'don't do it, it's illegal' is not an intelligent argument.
    Bad advice.
    argon 18 e116 2013 Vision Metron 80
    Bianchi Oltre XR Sram Red E-tap, Fulcrum racing speed xlr
    De Rosa SK pininfarina disc
    S Works Tarmac e-tap 2017
    Rose pro sl disc
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    noodleman wrote:
    D O G wrote:
    All traffic lights, road signs and markings should be treated as advisory only, when in any vehicle.

    Of course, the advice includes the associated consequences of acting contrary to the applicable laws.

    What I'm saying is, you should make up your own mind as to what your actions should be, the blanket 'don't do it, it's illegal' is not an intelligent argument.
    Bad advice.
    Oh, I don't know. Think of the fun you can have if you apply this approach to all laws... "Sorry Officer, I was treating the laws against murder as advisory only and he was a right pain in the censored "
    Faster than a tent.......
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