Dover: a sign of things to come?

ugo.santalucia

Is it really just a glitch or is it a sign that French borders will become stricter with Brexit and lengthy queues and disruptions will become the norm?

sungod

don't think it's anything to do with brexit

i go fairly often via eurostar, since the first attacks in france they have noticeably ramped up security, passports get a lot more scrutiny, x-ray/screening points are more stringent, and there are many more police and soldiers with automatic weapons on patrol

if boats, trains etc. are to be less vulnerable, security measures need strengthening, it'll take a long time to get extra people and infrastructure in place so it's going to make delays inevitable - they were clearly stretched by euro 2016

though with schengen, porous borders to the east and the easy availability of military weapons in europe they're not in a great position to prevent further attacks within france

verylonglegs

It's the first weekend of the school holidays, I should imagine the extra traffic has just tipped the balance on a system that sounds like it was already close to the limit of its resources.

dabber

Apparently only 3 out 7 booths/lanes were open. Hardly sounds like just bad set of coincidences.

ugo.santalucia

Dabber wrote:

Apparently only 3 out 7 booths/lanes were open. Hardly sounds like just bad set of coincidences.

That's often the case, but in case of extra traffic one would hope they do something extra. The problem with borders is whose responsibility is it? There is at least 10 times the traffic of UK cars going to France than viceversa, so the French can just wash their hands of the all situation, who is going to blame them? With Brexit they will probably further increase security check but probably leave staff as normal... how many French drive on holiday to the UK, who is going to point the finger at the French government?

diplodicus

We went through it Saturday.

Left home Friday night and hit the A20 about 9:30pm. At about 9:40pm we were approx 7.5miles from Dover. We arrived at the queue for French passport control at 9;00am Saturday morning. :shock: According to the radio/internet, this delay was caused by increased security at the French passport control

By the time we arrived at the front of the queue it appears that they had given up security checks. They were allowing cars forward 2 or 3 at a time until suddenly the marshals opened all the gates at once. Everyone drove straight through passport control with not even a cursory glance from the now departing Douanes. The only place our passports were looked at was the P&O check in staff, who commented "ooh you're my latest yet". I suspect there were lots of people delayed even longer for Saturday ferries.

Made for an interesting journey down to the Alps on Saturday

ugo.santalucia

diplodicus wrote:

By the time we arrived at the front of the queue it appears that they had given up security checks. They were allowing cars forward 2 or 3 at a time until suddenly the marshals opened all the gates at once.

Sounds to me like security was just the excuse to give a taster of things to come then... :evil:

diplodicus

ugo.santalucia wrote:

diplodicus wrote:

By the time we arrived at the front of the queue it appears that they had given up security checks. They were allowing cars forward 2 or 3 at a time until suddenly the marshals opened all the gates at once.

Sounds to me like security was just the excuse to give a taster of things to come then... :evil:

Or another interpretation could be;

English Authorities "come on monsieur douanes, your increased checks are causing chaos across Kent"

Monsieur Douanes (gallic shrug) "to hell with you then, if we can't do it properly we're not bothering at all, au revoir"

dabber

I guess we'll soon have the joys of French ATC going on strike yet again, again, again.

slowmart

The French PM was booed when he visited Nice and the narrative from the French right is starting to bite that their government is not doing enough to protect their citizens.

Garry H

ugo.santalucia wrote:

diplodicus wrote:

By the time we arrived at the front of the queue it appears that they had given up security checks. They were allowing cars forward 2 or 3 at a time until suddenly the marshals opened all the gates at once.

Sounds to me like security was just the excuse to give a taster of things to come then... :evil:

What, you think the French are deliberately discouraging Brits from visiting and spending money in France?

Frank Wilson

diplodicus wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

diplodicus wrote:

By the time we arrived at the front of the queue it appears that they had given up security checks. They were allowing cars forward 2 or 3 at a time until suddenly the marshals opened all the gates at once.

Sounds to me like security was just the excuse to give a taster of things to come then... :evil:

Or another interpretation could be;

English Authorities "come on monsieur douanes, your increased checks are causing chaos across Kent"

Monsieur Douanes (gallic shrug) "to hell with you then, if we can't do it properly we're not bothering at all, au revoir"

Would they not be British Authorities?

Pross

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Dabber wrote:

Apparently only 3 out 7 booths/lanes were open. Hardly sounds like just bad set of coincidences.

That's often the case, but in case of extra traffic one would hope they do something extra. The problem with borders is whose responsibility is it? There is at least 10 times the traffic of UK cars going to France than viceversa, so the French can just wash their hands of the all situation, who is going to blame them? With Brexit they will probably further increase security check but probably leave staff as normal... how many French drive on holiday to the UK, who is going to point the finger at the French government?

Yep, obviously if you have a huge amount of tourism coming in from a country and they are visiting areas were tourism is a key industry it would make sense to make life as difficult as possible so they all think 'feck it, we'll go to Spain instead' :roll:

dabber

Pross wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Dabber wrote:

Apparently only 3 out 7 booths/lanes were open. Hardly sounds like just bad set of coincidences.

That's often the case, but in case of extra traffic one would hope they do something extra. The problem with borders is whose responsibility is it? There is at least 10 times the traffic of UK cars going to France than viceversa, so the French can just wash their hands of the all situation, who is going to blame them? With Brexit they will probably further increase security check but probably leave staff as normal... how many French drive on holiday to the UK, who is going to point the finger at the French government?

Yep, obviously if you have a huge amount of tourism coming in from a country and they are visiting areas were tourism is a key industry it would make sense to make life as difficult as possible so they all think 'feck it, we'll go to Spain instead' :roll:

But that's exactly what they seem to have done.

France has to be one of the catalysts in creating an anti-EU reaction in the UK.

I say this as someone who has been in France for the last 4 weeks and have a house over here.... love the countryside but I wouldn't be here otherwise.

Garry H

I think it's a consequence of the French Gov't wanting to be seen as being extra vigilant after Nice.

dabber

Garry H wrote:

I think it's a consequence of the French Gov't wanting to be seen to be being extra vigilant after Nice.

So they decide to implement more vigilant checks and only man 3 out of the 7 available booths.
Sheer incompetence or bloody mindedness... take your your pick.

ugo.santalucia

Pross wrote:

Yep, obviously if you have a huge amount of tourism coming in from a country and they are visiting areas were tourism is a key industry it would make sense to make life as difficult as possible so they all think 'feck it, we'll go to Spain instead' :roll:

I never said it makes sense to do so... but how many things goverments (who act on people's behalf after all) do actually make any sense? The model of Western democracy is one where they don't seem to be able to stop people shooting each other every given day.
The UK goverment with a tiny mandate snatched by disensing lies, is keen to go ahead with this Brexit thing which nobody is quite sure will bring prosperity but it is pretty sure to bring grief... does it make any sense?

diplodicus

Frank Wilson wrote:

diplodicus wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

diplodicus wrote:

By the time we arrived at the front of the queue it appears that they had given up security checks. They were allowing cars forward 2 or 3 at a time until suddenly the marshals opened all the gates at once.

Sounds to me like security was just the excuse to give a taster of things to come then... :evil:

Or another interpretation could be;

English Authorities "come on monsieur douanes, your increased checks are causing chaos across Kent"

Monsieur Douanes (gallic shrug) "to hell with you then, if we can't do it properly we're not bothering at all, au revoir"

Would they not be British Authorities?

Yes Frank they would, and the French custom officer was not actually called Monieur Douanes

BelgianBeerGeek

Dunno about the French border guards (they always seem to outnumber the Brits by 5 to 1: bloody civil servants, eh?)
But the UK Border Force, as an arm of the guvmit of the UK have been hugely understaffed for years. And it seems to me (just guessing) that after a while they give into pressure and think "**ck it, send 'em through". How else do you get rid of that backlog? After all, we have all become accustomed to quick, easy travel throughout the Euroland.

jgsi

I cant afford to travel .. so dont really care, yes I voted out

rick_chasey

Well Brexit certainly won't make it any easier in Dover will it?

rick_chasey

JGSI wrote:

I cant afford to travel .. so dont really care, yes I voted out

Ah, classic Brexiter nihilism.

itboffin

Delays through security are almost always because of us not the French, and the universal lack of staff at customs is a fucking joke.

Never flight into JFK ever!

awavey

itboffin wrote:

Delays through security are almost always because of us not the French, and the universal lack of staff at customs is a ******* joke.

but its the French passport control you hit first at Dover isnt it ? because theres no border control the other side you drive straight off the boat onto the motorway.

rick_chasey

itboffin wrote:

Never flight into JFK ever!

Word.

rick_chasey

Still remember standing there in the queue in hour 3 when one of the staff went over to the empty US only desks and asked if they would open a couple to non-US passengers to ease the congestion.

The policeman responded in his thickest american accent.

"I will NOT have Americans waiting to get back into their country!!!"

This was the same chap who on the rare occasion an American male would come through he would shout "WELCOME BACK SIR!"

Pross

Yep, JFK is a joke (although my experience of Orlando is the same so assumed all US airports are like it). Last time we travelled there me, my wife and younger daughter got through the 'quick' lane but my elder daughter had to stay in the normal queue. She then had people pushing in front all the time as various lanes all came together in a free-for-all for the next available desk. Then again, Heathrow wasn't a lot better when we returned as we couldn't use the biometric lane due to the youngest being underage.

mamba80

Would it have made so much difference if there had been all 7 booths open? 6 to 9 hr delays would still be awful.

Lack of investment in access roads, port facilities and boats over many years is why i stopped using Dover (Me an my daughter are going Plymouth roscoff for our trip to La Velotoise, Figeac) the rise in terrorism is going to make all forms of international travel, in to europe far worse and UK leaving EU will limit our influence even further.

dabber

mamba80 wrote:

(Me an my daughter are going Plymouth roscoff for our trip to La Velotoise, Figeac)

Might see you there... I've done it the last couple of years and I've been over in the Lot for the last month and might end up doing it again. It's been pretty hot here btw.

harry-s

Has anyone rolled up to Dover on a bike during these delays, and if so were they able to ride past the queues and go to the front?

Ben6899

Just getting back to the JFK and Orlando airports comments.

All US airports are the same. In your face favouritism of US citizens.