What went wrong?

124

Comments

  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    Richmond Racer 2 wrote:
    Joelsim wrote:
    andyp wrote:
    40 km flat TT three days before the end of the race? Purito ain't gonna win.

    You'd have thought that at some point over his 48 year career he'd have put some thought into improving his TTing.

    But hey, what do I know.


    I know! He really should have trained harder to put down big power on a long flat TT with his 58kg

    Lightweight
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • mrfpb
    mrfpb Posts: 4,569
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    FocusZing wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    What were the main reasons that this year's tour was a bit underwhelming? You can pick more than one.

    Feel free to add comments about other factors.

    All the science/analysis has got in the way of the racing. Sky have made it it a bit too clinically controlled.

    Sport is entertainment, controlling it too much reduces the spontaneity which is why sport is so much better than films to watch.

    The rain was the most influencing factor, shuffling the deck a bit.

    Ironically most of the spontaneity came from Sky in the end...

    To quote Geraint Thomas on ITV4 after the race "When I'm paid to be entertaining, I'll ride in an entertaining way"
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,887
    Thomas hasn't thought of the lucrative sponsorship and post-tour crit market for entertaining cyclists then.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Thomas hasn't thought of the lucrative sponsorship and post-tour crit market for entertaining cyclists then.
    He earns around a million Euros and lives in Monaco. I think he'll manage. (I'm surprised Froome did one yesterday).
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • dish_dash
    dish_dash Posts: 5,647
    RichN95 wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Thomas hasn't thought of the lucrative sponsorship and post-tour crit market for entertaining cyclists then.
    He earns around a million Euros and lives in Monaco. I think he'll manage. (I'm surprised Froome did one yesterday).

    Really? He's done them in past years... why stop now? Also, doesn't strike me as a guy who would turn down the opportunity to earn a bit of extra cash.
  • Richmond Racer 2
    Richmond Racer 2 Posts: 4,698
    RichN95 wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Thomas hasn't thought of the lucrative sponsorship and post-tour crit market for entertaining cyclists then.
    He earns around a million Euros and lives in Monaco. I think he'll manage. (I'm surprised Froome did one yesterday).


    Froome is very motivated by the benjamins. This isn't a criticism, just a fact. He scoops up the €€€ every year at those post-Tour crits every year he's won the Tour.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,547
    Why not? It's money for old rope, a hour riding around but not very hard for most of it, bit of glad handing of a few VIPs then take home €50k.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Richmond Racer 2 wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Thomas hasn't thought of the lucrative sponsorship and post-tour crit market for entertaining cyclists then.
    He earns around a million Euros and lives in Monaco. I think he'll manage. (I'm surprised Froome did one yesterday).


    Froome is very motivated by the benjamins. This isn't a criticism, just a fact. He scoops up the €€€ every year at those post-Tour crits every year he's won the Tour.
    I was just surprised with an Olympics around the corner. I would have thought a more lucrative avenue would be to build his image in the UK and attract personal sponsorship (Ride London part of that obviously)
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • mrfpb
    mrfpb Posts: 4,569
    The point is they can be as entertaining as they like in events that demand that from them (and pay them for it), but at the TdF they are paid to bring home the Yellow Jersey, so that's what they did. Froome did manage to raise few smiles along the way this year, though.
  • effillo
    effillo Posts: 257
    Anyone noticed the 'nothing wrong' option is most popular. Maybe there wasn't actually anything wrong with this years edition.....
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    The whole tour goes into my "It's the riders that make the race" evidence column

    The reality is we had 1 guy that wanted to win and 9 guys who were happy with top 10 so when that set up developed there was no way it was going to change. Prudhomme can change the route all he likes but you can't force a disinterested rider to attack.
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    effillo wrote:
    Anyone noticed the 'nothing wrong' option is most popular. Maybe there wasn't actually anything wrong with this years edition.....

    27% isn't that popular, you'll always get a few contrarians and a few with sausage fingers who hit the wrong part of the screen.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • The_Boy
    The_Boy Posts: 3,099
    Taking an outside-the-box approach, the Post of the Tour thread contained only a handful of posts and a shed load of tumbleweed.

    Q.E.D.
    Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,887
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    effillo wrote:
    Anyone noticed the 'nothing wrong' option is most popular. Maybe there wasn't actually anything wrong with this years edition.....

    27% isn't that popular, you'll always get a few contrarians and a few with sausage fingers who hit the wrong part of the screen.

    To be fair, it is set up so that you can vote for more than one item and presumably those that voted for nothing wrong only voted once. Basically it is not very well set up to accurately determine anything!
  • hypster
    hypster Posts: 1,229
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    effillo wrote:
    Anyone noticed the 'nothing wrong' option is most popular. Maybe there wasn't actually anything wrong with this years edition.....

    27% isn't that popular, you'll always get a few contrarians and a few with sausage fingers who hit the wrong part of the screen.

    And what's to stop those with "sausage fingers" voting for "It's the parcours" rather than "There's nothing wrong"? It works both ways.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    edited July 2016
    hypster wrote:
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    effillo wrote:
    Anyone noticed the 'nothing wrong' option is most popular. Maybe there wasn't actually anything wrong with this years edition.....

    27% isn't that popular, you'll always get a few contrarians and a few with sausage fingers who hit the wrong part of the screen.

    And what's to stop those with "sausage fingers" voting for "It's the parcours" rather than "There's nothing wrong"? It works both ways.


    OK true, but you must have noticed a trend for the better quality posters criticising the race non?

    edit - the above was tongue in cheek.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • kleinstroker
    kleinstroker Posts: 2,133
    So all the evidence is in! Now how to fix it?

    One less man per team - might nobble Sky a bit but just a bit
    Less flat stages and less sprints- could be good for the tour and might shift emphasis to GC or it might just lose the TV viewers who seem to like them
    Less TT's - any tour with two ITT's in it is bound to favour guys like Froome. Losing the TT altogether might make the race a closer thing and force more mountain attacks
    Change the way winner is calculated - do away with total time and instead allocate points per stage

    What do you think?
  • FocusZing
    FocusZing Posts: 4,373
    Rider salary cap to distribute the talent more widely.
  • effillo
    effillo Posts: 257
    kleinstroker wrote:
    So all the evidence is in! Now how to fix it?

    Less TT's - any tour with two ITT's in it is bound to favour guys like Froome. Losing the TT altogether might make the race a closer thing and force more mountain attacks

    What do you think?

    Or maybe others could work on their TT ability? Isn't the whole point that the winner can do more than just climb?

    Porte worked on his TT a few years back and this has worked well for him (if we ignore his abnormally bad firstTT this year).
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,547
    FocusZing wrote:
    Rider salary cap to distribute the talent more widely.

    In a sport as fragmented as pro cycling? It'll never happen.
  • ocdupalais
    ocdupalais Posts: 4,317
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    hypster wrote:
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    effillo wrote:
    Anyone noticed the 'nothing wrong' option is most popular. Maybe there wasn't actually anything wrong with this years edition.....

    27% isn't that popular, you'll always get a few contrarians and a few with sausage fingers who hit the wrong part of the screen.

    And what's to stop those with "sausage fingers" voting for "It's the parcours" rather than "There's nothing wrong"? It works both ways.


    OK true, but you must have noticed a trend for the better quality posters criticising the race non?

    Ah... The anguished lucidity of the perennially
    disappointed. As for the poorer quality posters, with their "I enjoyed it!" and "I thought it was good!", exclamation mark, exclamation mark... Perhaps if some of them weren't so busy playing on their bicycles, or being on holiday in France, they might actually spend the time to write something unpoorer.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    effillo wrote:
    kleinstroker wrote:
    So all the evidence is in! Now how to fix it?

    Less TT's - any tour with two ITT's in it is bound to favour guys like Froome. Losing the TT altogether might make the race a closer thing and force more mountain attacks

    What do you think?

    Or maybe others could work on their TT ability? Isn't the whole point that the winner can do more than just climb?

    Porte worked on his TT a few years back and this has worked well for him (if we ignore his abnormally bad firstTT this year).

    Yeah I think it's good that the Tour is about more than just who can climb well. The Vuelta with it's 10 summit finishes should answer that one ;)

    This is why the rolling classics-type stages are also good (and the sprint stages - since keeping your GC guy the right side of splits is a skill in itself - although I agree there probably don't need to be lots of sprint stages)
  • Richmond Racer 2
    Richmond Racer 2 Posts: 4,698
    kleinstroker wrote:
    So all the evidence is in! Now how to fix it?

    One less man per team - might nobble Sky a bit but just a bit
    Less flat stages and less sprints- could be good for the tour and might shift emphasis to GC or it might just lose the TV viewers who seem to like them
    Less TT's - any tour with two ITT's in it is bound to favour guys like Froome. Losing the TT altogether might make the race a closer thing and force more mountain attacks
    Change the way winner is calculated - do away with total time and instead allocate points per stage

    What do you think?


    Hmmm. Sky were down to 8 men including Cav after st 3 the 2012 Tour, and it hampered them not one whit
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    effillo wrote:
    Porte worked on his TT a few years back and this has worked well for him (if we ignore his abnormally bad firstTT this year).
    Porte's always been a good TTer. People first noticed him when he comfortably won the TT at the Tour of Romandie in his debut season.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Richmond Racer 2
    Richmond Racer 2 Posts: 4,698
    RichN95 wrote:
    effillo wrote:
    Porte worked on his TT a few years back and this has worked well for him (if we ignore his abnormally bad firstTT this year).
    Porte's always been a good TTer. People first noticed him when he comfortably won the TT at the Tour of Romandie in his debut season.


    4th in the 2010 Worlds TT (missed out to Tony Martin for the bronze by just 6 secs)

    6th in the 2011 Worlds TT

    Yep, he's always been good
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,554
    Surely Peanut &FDJ are the example that you can dramatically improve your TTing.
    GC should be about being able to perform well across differing terrain, coping with the weather and being able to perform in differing disciplines.
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    OCDuPalais wrote:
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    hypster wrote:
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    effillo wrote:
    Anyone noticed the 'nothing wrong' option is most popular. Maybe there wasn't actually anything wrong with this years edition.....

    27% isn't that popular, you'll always get a few contrarians and a few with sausage fingers who hit the wrong part of the screen.

    And what's to stop those with "sausage fingers" voting for "It's the parcours" rather than "There's nothing wrong"? It works both ways.


    OK true, but you must have noticed a trend for the better quality posters criticising the race non?

    Ah... The anguished lucidity of the perennially
    disappointed. As for the poorer quality posters, with their "I enjoyed it!" and "I thought it was good!", exclamation mark, exclamation mark... Perhaps if some of them weren't so busy playing on their bicycles, or being on holiday in France, they might actually spend the time to write something unpoorer.

    Me, I get paid to write the 'quality' stuff for peer reviewed journals and university presses (although they don't actually pay you, your institution does...) on things that if I'm honest are a bit more important than cycling, here you get the cow and muppet pictures I can't pass off as empirical data reflection or theoretical advancement. That and it's too much effort to cultivate an air of superior detachment all the time, I'm not a hispter, although I was once called a cultural Marxist on twitter.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • Moraygub
    Moraygub Posts: 9
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    hypster wrote:
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    effillo wrote:
    Anyone noticed the 'nothing wrong' option is most popular. Maybe there wasn't actually anything wrong with this years edition.....

    27% isn't that popular, you'll always get a few contrarians and a few with sausage fingers who hit the wrong part of the screen.

    And what's to stop those with "sausage fingers" voting for "It's the parcours" rather than "There's nothing wrong"? It works both ways.


    OK true, but you must have noticed a trend for the better quality posters criticising the race non?

    How do you get into this "better quality of poster" bracket and do you have to think that this years TDF was a stinker to gain admission. Curious as i didn't realise that there was some sort of hierachy when it comes to discussing cycling.
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    Moraygub wrote:
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    hypster wrote:
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    effillo wrote:
    Anyone noticed the 'nothing wrong' option is most popular. Maybe there wasn't actually anything wrong with this years edition.....

    27% isn't that popular, you'll always get a few contrarians and a few with sausage fingers who hit the wrong part of the screen.

    And what's to stop those with "sausage fingers" voting for "It's the parcours" rather than "There's nothing wrong"? It works both ways.


    OK true, but you must have noticed a trend for the better quality posters criticising the race non?

    How do you get into this "better quality of poster" bracket and do you have to think that this years TDF was a stinker to gain admission. Curious as i didn't realise that there was some sort of hierachy when it comes to discussing cycling.

    It's simple. You're only in this bracket if you can spell hierarchy.
  • kleinstroker
    kleinstroker Posts: 2,133
    Isn't it higherarchy as in you're higher up therefore better than me..

    Showing my quality

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