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Why am I faster on fast days?

chrisaonabikechrisaonabike Posts: 1,912
edited August 2016 in Training, fitness and health
I'm trying to shift a stubborn half stone or so. I'm 5'9", and until a few months ago I was twelve stone. I'm 11 1/2 now but I'd really like to be back down at eleven stone.

So I've been on the 5:2 diet for about three weeks now. On fast days, I eat nothing until about 5:30 PM, and then I go out on the bike for about 20 miles. Then I come back, cool down and have a small meal, trying to keep it under 1000 calories. I don't have any alcohol on a fast day either. So this puts me under the 600 cal recommended amount for a fast day.

The weird thing is, considering that when I ride, I haven't eaten for almost 24 hours, I consistently feel at least as strong, sometimes stronger over that short distance than I do when I have eaten normally.

Not only that, but I am also consistently a little faster. Normally I average about 15.5 miles an hour from home, up to Richmond Park, a couple of laps and back again – last night I was averaging 16.9 until I got snarled up in traffic and slowed right down, averaging 16.5 overall.

So how can this be? By the end of the afternoon when I go out for the ride after not eating all day, I'm starting to feel slightly lightheaded, but as soon as I set off, the energy comes back and I'm feeling fine for the whole ride.
Is the gorilla tired yet?
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Posts

  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,123
    I don't know the answer, but I was also surprised to find I can manage a moderately paced 15-20 miles on fast days, although I tend to go out after my evening snack.

    Some fast days I've stuck to the 600 cal food / drink and done an hour on the bike; that does get the weight off. Not entirely sure it's a healthy calorie deficit though...

    Now I'm down to my target weight I'm continuing with the 5:2 but a bit more relaxed about what I eat on fast days
  • giropaulgiropaul Posts: 414
    I've used the 5:2 and 1on 1 fast . It has shown me that it's what you eat the day before that makes the difference. Therefore, I'm fine for 60 miles at a good pace with just scrambled eggs and coffee - no carbs.
  • markhewitt1978markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    I've read something about this (sketchy on the details) but when you're fasting your metabolism can actually increase, it's your bodies way of saying that you haven't eaten for a while, the best way to get something to eat is to go out hunting. So while you're on a bike ride your body thinks "aha, I'm out hunting wilderbeast, best go even faster"
  • fenixfenix Posts: 5,437
    I do know that if I make a mistake of having something big to eat before a ride then I'm censored . I put this down to the body being too busy digesting my food to pay full attention to making me go fast.

    Makes sense to me ?
  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,498
    So while you're on a bike ride your body thinks "aha, I'm out hunting wilderbeast, best go even faster"
    Not sure there are any wilderbeast in Richmond park .... ? ;)
  • chrisaonabikechrisaonabike Posts: 1,912
    slowbike wrote:
    So while you're on a bike ride your body thinks "aha, I'm out hunting wildebeest, best go even faster"
    Not sure there are any wildebeest in Richmond park .... ? ;)
    There really are - they run in packs, and ignore everything around them. They have strange markings, with what look like words on their backs.... starting with L and D. :twisted:

    Fortunately I go clockwise... :)
    Is the gorilla tired yet?
  • crakercraker Posts: 2,060
    Dunno, there's always so many variables and I don't usually cycle with a computer. Yesterday was a fast day, the roads were curiously devoid of cyclists so I had no-one to chase.

    However, week 3 of 5:2 fasting and I'm under 70kg by this morning's weigh-in. That's 3kg + lost.

    I did a sportive on Sunday, ate my own weight in cake and weighed in at 72kg on Sunday evening. So that's 2kg in one day of fasting by my reckoning ;-) (and I'm finding the fast says easier to deal with and it doesn't stop me wanting to cycle).
  • zefszefs Posts: 484
    Body always keeps 2k calories as storage as far as I know, so yours could be using those?
  • chrisaonabikechrisaonabike Posts: 1,912
    craker wrote:
    However, week 3 of 5:2 fasting and I'm under 70kg by this morning's weigh-in. That's 3kg + lost.
    I'm not doing that well. I'm finding it really hard not to eat more on the non-fast days, since I seem to be hungry all the time.

    I added an extra lap of the Park last night (so that's 30 miles total, after almost 24 hours with no food) to see whether I'd be anywhere near bonking.

    The tank definitely felt empty for the 3rd lap, but that might have been the heat. I'll have to try it again when it's cooler.
    Is the gorilla tired yet?
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,123
    Some normal eating days I find I'm really hungry, others I'm OK. I figure that as long as I stick to 600 cals on fast days I can eat more or less what I like the rest of the time. The secret is to weigh yourself each morning and just look at the long term trend. As long as it's downwards, or stable when you reach your target weigh, that's OK.
  • pinnopinno Posts: 40,154
    giropaul wrote:
    I've used the 5:2 and 1on 1 fast . It has shown me that it's what you eat the day before that makes the difference. Therefore, I'm fine for 60 miles at a good pace with just scrambled eggs and coffee - no carbs.

    Your body will convert protein to energy. In fact, during endurance rides that put you into the red for a long period, your body can break down proteins for energy such as red blood cells. That is why the practice (now illegal) of blood transfusions took place in the Grand Tours.

    As far as the fasting conundrum is concerned, your blood stream has to have a minimum glycogen level or you will keel over. If you are fasting, the body is busy metabolising fat.
    The other thing, 20 to 30 mile rides whilst fasting are not that long and you may not burn much fat but you will deplete most glycogen stocks. The fat burn will actually happen off the bike. That's the plus side. Once you exhaust stored glycogen, the body starts to assimilate fats (and proteins on long ride). This 'threshold' is anything between 25 minutes and 90 minutes but the good thing is, your body will be burning fat for every minute you go over this 'threshold'. The threshold will be low if you are fasting. For example. 25 minutes to threshold, 30 more minutes riding and then your body will be burning fat for a further 30 minutes once you stop. It's during this post exercise period when the body is still assimilating fat that is critical that you are careful what you eat.
    If you are intent on weight loss, go for low calorie fluids and electrolytic drinks .

    Glycogen is stored in muscle and the liver. Unless you were starving, you will have some glycogen reserves even if you haven't eaten for 12 hours or so.

    If you fuel up on easy to digest foodstuffs prior to a ride, then you won't feel so lethargic and make sure you put a time gap between eating and riding or at least ride piano piano for a while before giving it some stick.

    Coffee is an excellent 'to go' drink prior to a ride - it helps assimilate fats and it is a stimulant but not instant coffee as it's full of cholesterol.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,498
    slowbike wrote:
    So while you're on a bike ride your body thinks "aha, I'm out hunting wildebeest, best go even faster"
    Not sure there are any wildebeest in Richmond park .... ? ;)
    There really are - they run in packs, and ignore everything around them. They have strange markings, with what look like words on their backs.... starting with L and D. :twisted:

    Fortunately I go clockwise... :)

    :mrgreen:
  • diydiy Posts: 6,680
    craker wrote:
    However, week 3 of 5:2 fasting and I'm under 70kg by this morning's weigh-in. That's 3kg + lost.
    I'm not doing that well. I'm finding it really hard not to eat more on the non-fast days, since I seem to be hungry all the time.

    That's because you aren't doing 5:2.. If I read your earlier post correctly you are netting off extra burned kcal from your allowance. Unfortunately thats not 5:2. 5:2 is a strict 25% of your RDA (~600kcal) for a man irrelevant of exercise.

    Yesterday I ate 550kcal and burned 1,500 extra from exercise. it took me 3 months to build up to 2.5 hours of hard exercise on a fasting day.. But importantly you can't net it off.

    You'll still avg 1lb a week as long as you don't over eat.
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,123
    "but not instant coffee as it's full of cholesterol"

    You sure about that? And what's wrong with ingesting cholesterol anyway?
  • chrisaonabikechrisaonabike Posts: 1,912
    diy wrote:
    That's because you aren't doing 5:2.. If I read your earlier post correctly you are netting off extra burned kcal from your allowance. Unfortunately thats not 5:2. 5:2 is a strict 25% of your RDA (~600kcal) for a man irrelevant of exercise.
    I don't understand that. If I can eat 600 cal on a 5:2 fast day when I don't exercise, why can't I go and burn 1000 cals on a 2 hour ride and eat 1600 instead? Or as I actually eat, under 1000.

    How can calories burned by exercising on a fast day be irrelevant?
    Is the gorilla tired yet?
  • pinnopinno Posts: 40,154
    diy wrote:
    That's because you aren't doing 5:2.. If I read your earlier post correctly you are netting off extra burned kcal from your allowance. Unfortunately thats not 5:2. 5:2 is a strict 25% of your RDA (~600kcal) for a man irrelevant of exercise.
    I don't understand that. If I can eat 600 cal on a 5:2 fast day when I don't exercise, why can't I go and burn 1000 cals on a 2 hour ride and eat 1600 instead? Or as I actually eat, under 1000.

    But isn't that closer to equilibrium in terms of input (amount of calories consumed) and output (amount of calories spent) instead of fat burn?
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • chrisaonabikechrisaonabike Posts: 1,912
    pinno wrote:
    diy wrote:
    That's because you aren't doing 5:2.. If I read your earlier post correctly you are netting off extra burned kcal from your allowance. Unfortunately thats not 5:2. 5:2 is a strict 25% of your RDA (~600kcal) for a man irrelevant of exercise.
    I don't understand that. If I can eat 600 cal on a 5:2 fast day when I don't exercise, why can't I go and burn 1000 cals on a 2 hour ride and eat 1600 instead? Or as I actually eat, under 1000.

    But isn't that closer to equilibrium in terms of input (amount of calories consumed) and output (amount of calories spent) instead of fat burn?
    Well yes, but it's all about calorie deficit isn't it?

    If, overall, the calories eaten is less than the calories burned, the difference has to come from fat stores at some point?

    One pound of fat is about 3500 cals. Create a deficit of half that, twice a week, without increasing on the other days, I thought that was how the 5:2 was supposed to work? So burn a bit more, can eat a bit more??

    What am I missing?
    Is the gorilla tired yet?
  • pinnopinno Posts: 40,154
    pinno wrote:
    diy wrote:
    That's because you aren't doing 5:2.. If I read your earlier post correctly you are netting off extra burned kcal from your allowance. Unfortunately thats not 5:2. 5:2 is a strict 25% of your RDA (~600kcal) for a man irrelevant of exercise.
    I don't understand that. If I can eat 600 cal on a 5:2 fast day when I don't exercise, why can't I go and burn 1000 cals on a 2 hour ride and eat 1600 instead? Or as I actually eat, under 1000.

    But isn't that closer to equilibrium in terms of input (amount of calories consumed) and output (amount of calories spent) instead of fat burn?
    Well yes, but it's all about calorie deficit isn't it?

    If, overall, the calories eaten is less than the calories burned, the difference has to come from fat stores at some point?

    One pound of fat is about 3500 cals. Create a deficit of half that, twice a week, without increasing on the other days, I thought that was how the 5:2 was supposed to work? So burn a bit more, can eat a bit more??

    What am I missing?

    I do not know. I have only touched on this fasting diet and the theory behind it. I have an under active thyroid and there is no way I could do a fasting ride. So I come from another camp - I eat loads; bucket loads.

    When I was first diagnosed, I thought it was the deathnell for cycling anything quicker than bog trot. I heard all sorts of stories about people ballooning but was pointed in the direction of a Tri-athletes forum. I discovered that there are quite a few professional tri-athletes with an underactive thyroid. It was more common amongst professional athletes than I had ever thought.
    I have always had a reasonably fast metabolism and my diet has always been very good, so I never had a weight problem - more the opposite: trying to keep a steady weight because if it sunk to below 60 kg's, I could go uphill like a rocket but my recovery rate was very poor. Racing sometimes left me totally spent and demoralised. That was a long time ago.

    I know of a fully blown diabetic who uses diet and exercise to carefully control (reduce) insulin usage on this forum - very clever.
    Now back to the tri-athletes. I got lots of tips on diet. Having under active thyroid has benefited me a little in that, I have learnt to eat little and often but critically, the right food stuffs. As long as I do that, I don't bonk, I keep my weight down (67kg's) and I am going pretty quick by my standards and with my numerous other problems.

    In summary, I am fascinated by the uptake of the fasting 5:2 diet and why it's so appealing to people. I also don't know how anyone could sustain it without feeling restricted.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • joe2008joe2008 Posts: 1,531
    I read the thread title with the confusion of someone reading "Why am I slower on slow days?"
  • pinnopinno Posts: 40,154
    joe2008 wrote:
    I read the thread title with the confusion of someone reading "Why am I slower on slow days?"

    You must have bonked.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,498
    pinno wrote:
    pinno wrote:
    diy wrote:
    That's because you aren't doing 5:2.. If I read your earlier post correctly you are netting off extra burned kcal from your allowance. Unfortunately thats not 5:2. 5:2 is a strict 25% of your RDA (~600kcal) for a man irrelevant of exercise.
    I don't understand that. If I can eat 600 cal on a 5:2 fast day when I don't exercise, why can't I go and burn 1000 cals on a 2 hour ride and eat 1600 instead? Or as I actually eat, under 1000.

    But isn't that closer to equilibrium in terms of input (amount of calories consumed) and output (amount of calories spent) instead of fat burn?
    Well yes, but it's all about calorie deficit isn't it?

    If, overall, the calories eaten is less than the calories burned, the difference has to come from fat stores at some point?

    One pound of fat is about 3500 cals. Create a deficit of half that, twice a week, without increasing on the other days, I thought that was how the 5:2 was supposed to work? So burn a bit more, can eat a bit more??

    What am I missing?

    I do not know. I have only touched on this fasting diet and the theory behind it. I have an under active thyroid and there is no way I could do a fasting ride. So I come from another camp - I eat loads; bucket loads.

    When I was first diagnosed, I thought it was the deathnell for cycling anything quicker than bog trot. I heard all sorts of stories about people ballooning but was pointed in the direction of a Tri-athletes forum. I discovered that there are quite a few professional tri-athletes with an underactive thyroid. It was more common amongst professional athletes than I had ever thought.
    I have always had a reasonably fast metabolism and my diet has always been very good, so I never had a weight problem - more the opposite: trying to keep a steady weight because if it sunk to below 60 kg's, I could go uphill like a rocket but my recovery rate was very poor. Racing sometimes left me totally spent and demoralised. That was a long time ago.

    I know of a fully blown diabetic who uses diet and exercise to carefully control (reduce) insulin usage on this forum - very clever.
    Now back to the tri-athletes. I got lots of tips on diet. Having under active thyroid has benefited me a little in that, I have learnt to eat little and often but critically, the right food stuffs. As long as I do that, I don't bonk, I keep my weight down (67kg's) and I am going pretty quick by my standards and with my numerous other problems.

    In summary, I am fascinated by the uptake of the fasting 5:2 diet and why it's so appealing to people. I also don't know how anyone could sustain it without feeling restricted.

    I don't know specifically either - I don't think it's as simple as calories below the recommended level as I know people who are over weight yet eat very little - their metabolism is at rock bottom - IMHO they need to boost that ...

    Perhaps the fasting changes the metabolic rate - or the change from fasting to eating does ...
    Coupled with an absolute bottom level diet on 2 days a week which is easier to monitor it seems to work.

    Would be interested in what the Right food stuffs are Pinno - I was diagnosed 20 odd years ago long before I had even thought about riding
  • pinnopinno Posts: 40,154
    slowbike wrote:
    pinno wrote:
    pinno wrote:
    diy wrote:
    That's...exercise.
    I...1000.

    But...burn?
    Well...missing?

    I...restricted.

    I...work.

    Would be interested in what the Right food stuffs are Pinno - I was diagnosed 20 odd years ago long before I had even thought about riding

    With underactive thyroid?

    (Most of this you'll probably be aware of).

    From the basis of the fact that the thyroid gland hormones principally regulates energy release, then we are susceptible to higher cholesterol and mood swings because of the fluctuation in energy levels.

    So, starting with the obvious - reduce saturated fat intake.
    Vitamins interfere with the absorption of thyroxine, so supplements and fortified foodstuffs should be not be consumed within 4 hours of taking your HRT.

    Taking the opposite eating continuously method rather then fasting, you have to eat the foodstuffs that increase your metabolic rate. I liken it to a woodburner analogy:

    If you take the woodburner analogy, having something to eat gets the system up and running quickly, especially if you feed it nice dry softwoods i'e fibre: Muesli, oats, wheat, bran etc. Then the body doesn't go into shut down mode until you feed it. If you fast, the system 'shuts down' and will quickly look to store whatever you consume as fat reserves whatever food you put in
    It's a bit like diet foods and soft drinks - the body will seek other foodstuffs to store as fat, not as immediate energy when you do eat other foodstuffs.
    If you get the woodburner going lickety split, you can chuck in the odd soggy bit of hardwood i.e cakes, fatty foodstuffs and pastries because it will consume it.

    So look for slow release carbs - this offsets the work the Thyroxine has to do. Don't avoid breakfast; it's the thing that kick starts everything off (lighting the woodburner) but always veer towards high fibre foodstuffs. The faster your metabolic rate, the more you can consume.

    We are lucky as cyclists in that we can curb whatever excesses we consume by burning it off.

    Yesterday (including 35 mile hilly ride in the heat) I ate:
    Breakfast: Large Coffee, large bowl of muesli (full fat milk), 1 banana.
    Lunch: Sandwich in brown bread, handful of prunes, some Cashew nuts, peanuts (nots not exceeding 50 grams). Large glass of Cranberry/Blackcurrant; I had at least 4 of them in the day.
    Afternoon: 2 Bananas, 1 apple
    Evening meal: Salad - 1/4 of a 10" quiche, mixed salad leaves, cucumber (1 teaspoon of mayonnaise), 70 gms Penne pasta, 1 small desert spoon of coleslaw, pickled beetroot, 1 half slice of ham, 30 gms of cheese.
    Went for a ride. I always take Haribo in case I bonk but only if I bonk. Took a full bottle (750ml) High5 with me.
    When I got back:
    1 small bowl of strawberries with Greek yoghurt. I pint of High 5 Zero and effervescent Vit C mixed, 3 weetabix. Some mixed nuts.

    I almost always cook from scratch. Thereby avoiding hidden sugars and salt. I almost never eat white bread and rarely eat Rice. These starchy carbs are great for quick energy release but not good for endurance or as someone who suffers under active Thyroid as we need to spread energy release out for as long as possible.
    I keep protein (derived from meat intake) to a minimum. I rarely eat red meats and never have a Full English. I avoid potential diuretics (too much tea), too much caffeine. I don't hanker for sweet things.

    It's more about throughput rather than simply input.

    Another thing. Vitamin D. I take a Vit D and Vit C supplement in winter. There is a correlation between the absorption of Vitamin C and your Vitamin B levels - it's interdependent and as winter fruit contains less Vitamins than in summer, it's very important to replace lost Vitamins and minerals (through sweating) by maintaining the fruit and vegetable intake that we do by default in summer.
    With underactive thyroid, you need a Calcium rich diet and maintenance of Vit D levels.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • diydiy Posts: 6,680
    pinno wrote:
    diy wrote:
    That's because you aren't doing 5:2.. If I read your earlier post correctly you are netting off extra burned kcal from your allowance. Unfortunately thats not 5:2. 5:2 is a strict 25% of your RDA (~600kcal) for a man irrelevant of exercise.
    I don't understand that. If I can eat 600 cal on a 5:2 fast day when I don't exercise, why can't I go and burn 1000 cals on a 2 hour ride and eat 1600 instead? Or as I actually eat, under 1000.

    But isn't that closer to equilibrium in terms of input (amount of calories consumed) and output (amount of calories spent) instead of fat burn?
    Well yes, but it's all about calorie deficit isn't it?

    If, overall, the calories eaten is less than the calories burned, the difference has to come from fat stores at some point?

    One pound of fat is about 3500 cals. Create a deficit of half that, twice a week, without increasing on the other days, I thought that was how the 5:2 was supposed to work? So burn a bit more, can eat a bit more??

    What am I missing?

    The reason you are consuming 25% of RDA is to reduce protein consumption (i.e. the body burning muscles for fuel), the reason you can't take account of exercise with your 600kcal, is because the idea is that your stomach is empty of food for the fast, or as close as it can be. The aim is to fuel your body on glycogen and stored fat. If you are eating this wont happen. Its still a calorie deficit, but you wont get as many of the claimed health benefits a fast delivers. long term research will actually show if these are real or not, but so fat there is feedback to suggest the fast gives benefits over those expected from a calorie deficit.

    To exercise on empty takes time as you have to condition your body to work well in glycogen depletion. I did 5:2 for nearly 3 years, but slipped in to 6:1 as I couldn't eat enough of 5 days to stop weight loss - I was getting to the point my skin didn't fit anymore. Since I'm also in to bodybuilding and not planning on winning TDF - was felt comfier on 6:1
  • webboowebboo Posts: 3,135
    slowbike wrote:
    pinno wrote:
    pinno wrote:
    diy wrote:
    That's because you aren't doing 5:2.. If I read your earlier post correctly you are netting off extra burned kcal from your allowance. Unfortunately thats not 5:2. 5:2 is a strict 25% of your RDA (~600kcal) for a man irrelevant of exercise.
    I don't understand that. If I can eat 600 cal on a 5:2 fast day when I don't exercise, why can't I go and burn 1000 cals on a 2 hour ride and eat 1600 instead? Or as I actually eat, under 1000.

    But isn't that closer to equilibrium in terms of input (amount of calories consumed) and output (amount of calories spent) instead of fat burn?
    Well yes, but it's all about calorie deficit isn't it?

    If, overall, the calories eaten is less than the calories burned, the difference has to come from fat stores at some point?

    One pound of fat is about 3500 cals. Create a deficit of half that, twice a week, without increasing on the other days, I thought that was how the 5:2 was supposed to work? So burn a bit more, can eat a bit more??

    What am I missing?

    I do not know. I have only touched on this fasting diet and the theory behind it. I have an under active thyroid and there is no way I could do a fasting ride. So I come from another camp - I eat loads; bucket loads.

    When I was first diagnosed, I thought it was the deathnell for cycling anything quicker than bog trot. I heard all sorts of stories about people ballooning but was pointed in the direction of a Tri-athletes forum. I discovered that there are quite a few professional tri-athletes with an underactive thyroid. It was more common amongst professional athletes than I had ever thought.
    I have always had a reasonably fast metabolism and my diet has always been very good, so I never had a weight problem - more the opposite: trying to keep a steady weight because if it sunk to below 60 kg's, I could go uphill like a rocket but my recovery rate was very poor. Racing sometimes left me totally spent and demoralised. That was a long time ago.

    I know of a fully blown diabetic who uses diet and exercise to carefully control (reduce) insulin usage on this forum - very clever.
    Now back to the tri-athletes. I got lots of tips on diet. Having under active thyroid has benefited me a little in that, I have learnt to eat little and often but critically, the right food stuffs. As long as I do that, I don't bonk, I keep my weight down (67kg's) and I am going pretty quick by my standards and with my numerous other problems.

    In summary, I am fascinated by the uptake of the fasting 5:2 diet and why it's so appealing to people. I also don't know how anyone could sustain it without feeling restricted.

    I don't know specifically either - I don't think it's as simple as calories below the recommended level as I know people who are over weight yet eat very little - their metabolism is at rock bottom - IMHO they need to boost that ...

    Perhaps the fasting changes the metabolic rate - or the change from fasting to eating does ...
    Coupled with an absolute bottom level diet on 2 days a week which is easier to monitor it seems to work.

    Would be interested in what the Right food stuffs are Pinno - I was diagnosed 20 odd years ago long before I had even thought about riding
    Generally when you ask someone who is overweight and claims to eat very little to keep a food diary, they actually eat enough to make them overweight.
  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,498
    pinno wrote:
    slowbike wrote:
    pinno wrote:
    pinno wrote:
    diy wrote:
    That's...exercise.
    I...1000.

    But...burn?
    Well...missing?

    I...restricted.

    I...work.

    Would be interested in what the Right food stuffs are Pinno - I was diagnosed 20 odd years ago long before I had even thought about riding

    With underactive thyroid?
    yup
    pinno wrote:
    (Most of this you'll probably be aware of).

    <loads of interesting stuff>
    Nope - I wasn't really aware of it - I've never bothered to research the condition - diagnosed in the days before the internet really was and given tablets that resolved the issue.
    Although I wasn't into cycling back then I did ride to/from college - far enough to sweat, not too far that required a change of clothes - as I could do that and then perform at college (underactive meant I couldn't concentrate or remember a lot of things) I was happy with the result.
    My main sport has always been dinghy racing - and TBH you can get away with being fairly lazy at that!

    So - thank you for your post - it is really interesting - I'll have to have another read ... but my first thoughts are ...

    censored ...

    I'm eating/drinking all the wrong stuff!

    Too much red meat, white bread and tea/coffee.

    Time for a diet change I think!
  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,498
    webboo wrote:
    slowbike wrote:
    I don't know specifically either - I don't think it's as simple as calories below the recommended level as I know people who are over weight yet eat very little - their metabolism is at rock bottom - IMHO they need to boost that ...

    Perhaps the fasting changes the metabolic rate - or the change from fasting to eating does ...
    Coupled with an absolute bottom level diet on 2 days a week which is easier to monitor it seems to work.
    Generally when you ask someone who is overweight and claims to eat very little to keep a food diary, they actually eat enough to make them overweight.

    Generally I'd agree with you - but the problem with Generalisations is that they are just that - generalisations ...

    (just to clarify - I'm not overweight myself)

    The galling thing for some people who are overweight is to read on social media "How I lost 100St in 3 months" or some such other outragious claim - only to find that they were drinking every night of the week and consuming vast quantities of junk food - not censored sherlock - cut the censored and you'll lose weight.
    Sometimes I think that those who eat little and still can't lose weight should take a leaf out of Barts book ...

    "I'll take up smoking and give that up" - only do that with alcohol and junk food ...

    IMHO, whilst getting overweight is a matter of calories in more than calories out - going back the other way isn't just a case of calories in less than calories out - as Pino says above
    If you fast, the system 'shuts down' and will quickly look to store whatever you consume as fat reserves whatever food you put in
    [/quote] - Suggesting that you can eat too little for weight loss to occur.
    So increasing the metabolic rate should be a priority over counting the calories of an otherwise healthy diet.
  • pinnopinno Posts: 40,154
    ^ Precisely. I want to loose 2 kg's.

    I haven't been cycling enough this year (at least, the continuity has been broken for one reason or another) and so I have had to make little adjustments and i'm continually analysing what I eat. The extra 2kg's are the result of half the usual mileage but saying that, I was 70kg's mid March. I didn't panic, I knew the extra miles would count and I cut certain things out.
    Simple things:
    A little sprinkle of sugar on my Cereal - nope, cut that out.
    No more honey/golden syrup on my Porage.
    OH brings a bloody carrot cake home :roll: So I cut the thing into 6 and had half a slice.
    Grapes - cut down on them. I love chopped fruit with Greek yoghurt but Grapes are full of sugar, it's my preferred 'Dessert'.
    Sugar in my coffee/tea - never.
    I drink a Red Bush now and again as a Tea substitute, it's a stronger anti-oxidant than tea as I don't like strong tea.
    Mayonnaise on my salad? Reduce it right down or even not bother.
    Grill bacon not fry it.
    Chicken rather than red meat.
    White Fish - great protein, nil fat in white fish. Sometimes Mackerel which is oily and very good for you.
    I rarely cook with Sunflower oil/vegetable oil. I use Olive oil and much reduced volumes. It's a conscious choice preferring natural saturated fats rather than Margarine which contain trans fatty acids. At the same time, I am always trying to reduce saturated fat consumption.

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 369390350P

    I eat no cereals that contain sugar/salt: Shreddies, plain Muesli, Weetabix, Shredded wheat, Porage etc If I could be 4rsed, I would get back to making my own Muesli.

    Anyway, I rambling and the TdF is on...
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,123
    I remember watching a documentary where they were trying to find out what was actually happening with the Atkins and other low carb diets. Apart from the fact that protein makes you feel full for longer, their main conclusion was that the proscriptive nature of the diet meant that they were simply consuming less food / fewer calories. All that stuff about ketosis and altered fat metabolism turned out to be insignificant / nonsense.

    Some fascinating stuff going on at the moment about the effect of the microbial population of the gut on the propensity to put weight on; seems some people benefit from microbes which break down fat before it's absorbed. Also that gut populations can be manipulated by modifying diet. Some people have gone from skinny to fat following serious illness / antibiotic treatment.

    So while it's inevitable that you'll lose weight if you consume fewer calories than you burn, it's clear that we don't all respond in the same way, and some people find they put on weight more easily than others, and may find it harder to lose.
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,123
    "I eat no cereals that contain sugar/salt: Shreddies, plain Muesli, Weetabix, Shredded wheat, Porage etc If I could be 4rsed, I would get back to making my own Muesli."

    I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Shreddies and Weetabix contain both sugar and salt...
  • pinnopinno Posts: 40,154
    keef66 wrote:
    "I eat no cereals that contain sugar/salt: Shreddies, plain Muesli, Weetabix, Shredded wheat, Porage etc If I could be 4rsed, I would get back to making my own Muesli."

    I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Shreddies and Weetabix contain both sugar and salt...

    You are ostensibly right but in comparison to other cereals, it's minimal.

    It's interesting what Keef66 says about gut bacteria. I am on permanent Penicillin V.K which upsets the bacterial balance and as long as I consume Yoghurt, I am fine. The thing that annoys me is that live Yoghurt is not readily available.

    There's a book somewhere that links diet with blood group. My friend who used to race went on a almost totally dairy free diet on account of his blood Group A and he really flew. I, on the other hand am an O positive which is common and far more tolerant to certain fats and milk products.
    My brother is A blood group. He's one of those damn vegans. He is a long distance runner and very good at it. By default, it seems that his choice of diet complements his blood group and his running.

    The Atkins diet long term cannot be good for you.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
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