Not all 17 million Leave voters can possibly be racist northern pensioners without an O level to the

RideOnTime

said the Mirror online.


eeek

RideOnTime

BelgianBeerGeek

No, lots live in the south too.

norvernrob

And I thought that no way could 16.4 million people in this country be intolerant, ignorant, pompous, arrogant up-their-own arsehole dickheads. Then they lost the Brexit vote and have been proving me wrong ever since.

Lookyhere

NorvernRob wrote:

And I thought that no way could 16.4 million people in this country be intolerant, ignorant, pompous, arrogant up-their-own arsehole dickheads. Then they lost the Brexit vote and have been proving me wrong ever since.

ah that sort of sentiment should heal the divide

Stevo_666

Lookyhere wrote:

NorvernRob wrote:

And I thought that no way could 16.4 million people in this country be intolerant, ignorant, pompous, arrogant up-their-own arsehole dickheads. Then they lost the Brexit vote and have been proving me wrong ever since.

ah that sort of sentiment should heal the divide

I guess from that statement you're one of the 16.4m

surrey_commuter

Whilst it is safe to assume that all pensioners are racist they certainly are not all northern and there are only 12.5 million of them - so no your hypothesis is wrong

rick_chasey

Those who campaigned for leave on the same topics as those on the far right would do better to explain the difference between their stance and those on the far right.

That's more the issue. If the far right have hijacked the immigration debate, and they have, it's up to those who campaigned on it to show that it doesn't need to be that way.

So no, it's not all the leave voters. But as the rise in racist attacks post Brexit has shown, those who are racist on the far right feel emboldened.

I know this since I was told that "get out of this country - we voted you out" when I was speaking Dutch to my mother in the street last week.

So those who aren't racist who campaigned on the issue of immigration would do well to explain what they meant, 'cos those chaps who said that don't really understand. Or do they???

mfin

Of the people voting out on the basis of immigration, a portion (of indeterminate size) of those will have racist leanings. Plus, I don't think you'd have found many racist people at all that were voting remain.

52/48 would be swapped over if you took these people out of the equation is my gut feeling.

Also, a massive amount of people who voted out based on immigration are people who did not understand any of the economic effects of immigration whatsoever (or any economic issues).

It is diplomacy in action though as you get the same one vote regardless of your beliefs or how thick you are. The referendum should never have happened though, it was over something too important.

DeVlaeminck

Rick Chasey wrote:

Those who campaigned for leave on the same topics as those on the far right would do better to explain the difference between their stance and those on the far right.

That's more the issue. If the far right have hijacked the immigration debate, and they have, it's up to those who campaigned on it to show that it doesn't need to be that way.

It's true that the chattering classes can't separate a concern over sustained record levels of immigration with the kind of views espoused by the BNP but I would suggest that it is more up to them to address that shortcoming rather than it being the duty of the rest of us to go over the arguments again.

verylonglegs

NorvernRob wrote:

And I thought that no way could 16.4 million people in this country be intolerant, ignorant, pompous, arrogant up-their-own arsehole dickheads. Then they lost the Brexit vote and have been proving me wrong ever since.

Happy to be intolerant of racists all day long. I woke up on the 24th to find I was on an island riddled with narrow-minded fuckwits. What do you reckon...coincidence or related to the referendum?

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/shop_owner_ ... _1_4608759

rick_chasey

Ah come on. I'm not standing there saying immigration is a problem. They are. So what is the problem?

Maybe they're embarrassed to tell me because I am one. But I never heard anything that made me think "oh that's a decent reason."

I heard a lot of falsehoods about most immigrants taking benefits and people moaning about different shops on their high street, but that was about it.

I once heard from a talking head vox pop man on the news that there the hospitals and schools were too full cos of immigrants which I guess is a reason. But then again you'd think it has more to do with 5 years of brutal austerity and cuts to public services. Especially given immigrants as a group put more into the tax payers pocket then they take out in use of public services.

But I haven't heard a peep from leave campaigners, though one did stand in front of a line of refugees saying "breaking point". I presume he didn't mean it was theirs...but then he didn't articulate it did he?

rick_chasey

Also, curious none of the leavers here have much to say about the incident I had on the street.

What do you feel when you hear stories like that?

I know how I feel. Intimidated and a little scared. I certainly feel unwelcome. Which is odd since I've lived here since I was two.

BelgianBeerGeek

Rick Chasey wrote:

Also, curious none of the leavers here have much to say about the incident I had on the street.

What do you feel when you hear stories like that?

I know how I feel. Intimidated and a little scared. I certainly feel unwelcome. Which is odd since I've lived here since I was two.

Rick, I'm a remainer. I've heard it said that we are Brexiteers now, I don't believe it. I am appalled, and ashamed to be British that you have had this experience. I am British, and unfortunately many of my countrymen are bigoted, chippy fuckers who ought to know better.
The attitude "In Britain, you should speak English" as a 'debate' pisses me off. A private conversation should be held in whatever language you feel comfortable with. If that is Welsh, Dutch, or even Klingon, that's your business and not mine.

Stevo_666

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Those who campaigned for leave on the same topics as those on the far right would do better to explain the difference between their stance and those on the far right.

That's more the issue. If the far right have hijacked the immigration debate, and they have, it's up to those who campaigned on it to show that it doesn't need to be that way.

It's true that the chattering classes can't separate a concern over sustained record levels of immigration with the kind of views espoused by the BNP but I would suggest that it is more up to them to address that shortcoming rather than it being the duty of the rest of us to go over the arguments again.

Well put.

rick_chasey

So you're happy to have the far right feel emboldened because the centre right can't articulate itself?

Cheers.

Stevo_666

Rick Chasey wrote:

So you're happy to have the far right feel emboldened because the centre right can't articulate itself?

Cheers.

You're making assumptions there.

These people who are responsible for what has been reported may have seen this as a trigger: happy for the full force of the law to be brought to bear on them. I am part of mixed race family by marriage BTW but we have never experienced anything like you describe. My other half (who is half Indian, half Portuguese) actually voted to leave...as did one of her good friends who is Chinese.

The point here is - as has been put above - that you cannot seem to distinguish between genuine concern at the rapid level of population growth on a relatively small island, and racism.

surrey_commuter

I don't want to get into semantics but is this even racism? People are being abused for coming from a different European country - doesn't that make it xenophobia.

In reality these people will always have been bigots the goings on of the last few months have given them permission to voice what they already thought.

rick_chasey

FWIW, according to UK law:

racial group means "any group of people who are defined by reference to their race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origin"

http://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/pros ... rbook.html

RideOnTime

lets all heal together (I have an anus infection by the way).

pblakeney

Rick Chasey wrote:

FWIW, according to UK law:

racial group means "any group of people who are defined by reference to their race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origin"

http://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/pros ... rbook.html

I notice that age and intelligence are not included in that list.
That must make it okay to get stuck into the thick oldies then.

norvernrob

verylonglegs wrote:

NorvernRob wrote:

And I thought that no way could 16.4 million people in this country be intolerant, ignorant, pompous, arrogant up-their-own arsehole dickheads. Then they lost the Brexit vote and have been proving me wrong ever since.

Happy to be intolerant of racists all day long. I woke up on the 24th to find I was on an island riddled with narrow-minded fuckwits. What do you reckon...coincidence or related to the referendum?

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/shop_owner_ ... _1_4608759

What has that person got to do with me? Are all Muslims terrorists? You're suggesting the same thing with Leave voters.

I voted leave for several reasons. The EU is a shambles. The Euro isn't working for many countries. The Southern European countries are fucked. Greece are going to need another massive bailout soon, Italy are on the verge of bankruptcy, Spain are skint with massive youth unemployment. France aren't much better off. The UK doesn't need to keep pouring money in.

There was always going to be some uncertainty in the economy after a Leave vote, but the government have f*cked that up too through sheer arrogance again because they never actually thought that Leave would win.

And yes, another reason is mass immigration. I see the effects of it every day - do you? House prices through the floor, all available housing bought cheaply by landlords who then rent them out to 3 or 4 families in a single house. Schools are full, people can't even get their third choice never mind their first. I know this because my wife is head of the foundation stage at the school in the area I work too. 40% of her school either don't speak English or are learning as a second language. There's nothing wrong with that if the infastructure is in place to deal with it, but it isn't. Families (from all backgrounds) are telling her they can't keep bringing the kids because they have to get 3 buses every morning, but there's nothing the school can do so some kids end up missing out because of poor attendance.

It's got nothing to do with cuts btw, another school was built in the area less than 5 years ago but it isn't enough.

She's a typical vegetarian, people loving, dedicated, highly educated teacher (degree + masters in child psychology), but under your assumption she's a narrow minded fuckwit too.

I refer back to my point about ignorant dickheads.

norvernrob

Rick Chasey wrote:

Also, curious none of the leavers here have much to say about the incident I had on the street.

What do you feel when you hear stories like that?

I know how I feel. Intimidated and a little scared. I certainly feel unwelcome. Which is odd since I've lived here since I was two.

All I can say is that whilst it's horrible, those people have nothing to do with me, nor millions of other Leave voters. It shouldn't happen. I speak to many EU migrants and asylum seekers (mainly from African countries) every day, and the referendum and me voting Leave hasn't made a jot of difference to how I speak to or treat them.

I have seen FB posts that are totally ignorant, so I understand why Remain voters are lumping us all in together - but don't. Those are the people that think all Muslims are terrorists, in fact I even saw one post that said at least Muslims won't be coming here now we're out. The vast majority of Leave voters aren't that stupid.

mfin

NorvernRob wrote:

There was always going to be some uncertainty in the economy after a Leave vote, but the government have f*cked that up too through sheer arrogance again because they never actually thought that Leave would win.

Can you explain what you mean by that bit?

Also... you're clear about experiencing the effects of volume of immigrants vs resources, but do you actually think this will change due to immigration numbers dropping substantially now? It sounds like you're thinking in the line of "shut the borders and let's recover", but we're not going to shut the borders and our economy is now in a much much worse off position too.

I understand the frustrations but leaving the eu was never the answer to those frustrations.

Daz555

NorvernRob wrote:

And yes, another reason is mass immigration. I see the effects of it every day - do you? House prices through the floor, all available housing bought cheaply by landlords who then rent them out to 3 or 4 families in a single house..

House prices through the floor? Where do you live? - they seem to be going through he roof in most places. And if landlords can buy houses cheaply so can homebuyers. Just a bit unsure what you are saying here because mass immigration would not cause house prices to fall.

mfin

NorvernRob wrote:

so I understand why Remain voters are lumping us all in together

The leave vote was in some part made of people with racist leanings. I think everyone knows that. Leave voters should accept that a portion of their overall total was contributed to by people with racist leanings. That is NOT lumping together Leave voters and tarnishing them with the same brush, not at all.

dav1d1

NorvernRob wrote:

What has that person got to do with me? Are all Muslims terrorists? You're suggesting the same thing with Leave voters.

I voted leave for several reasons. The EU is a shambles. The Euro isn't working for many countries. The Southern European countries are farked. Greece are going to need another massive bailout soon, Italy are on the verge of bankruptcy, Spain are skint with massive youth unemployment. France aren't much better off. The UK doesn't need to keep pouring money in.

There was always going to be some uncertainty in the economy after a Leave vote, but the government have f*cked that up too through sheer arrogance again because they never actually thought that Leave would win.

And yes, another reason is mass immigration. I see the effects of it every day - do you? House prices through the floor, all available housing bought cheaply by landlords who then rent them out to 3 or 4 families in a single house. Schools are full, people can't even get their third choice never mind their first. I know this because my wife is head of the foundation stage at the school in the area I work too. 40% of her school either don't speak English or are learning as a second language. There's nothing wrong with that if the infastructure is in place to deal with it, but it isn't. Families (from all backgrounds) are telling her they can't keep bringing the kids because they have to get 3 buses every morning, but there's nothing the school can do so some kids end up missing out because of poor attendance.

It's got nothing to do with cuts btw, another school was built in the area less than 5 years ago but it isn't enough.

She's a typical vegetarian, people loving, dedicated, highly educated teacher (degree + masters in child psychology), but under your assumption she's a narrow minded fuckwit too.

I refer back to my point about ignorant dickheads.

Great post

Moontrane

Pls help me out: what does an "O level" mean? :?:

Stevo_666

Moontrane wrote:

Pls help me out: what does an "O level" mean? :?:

GCSE

bendertherobot

Immigration is an interesting one. It's certainly possible to be concerned at the effects of it and how it affects infrastructure etc. Though, of course, you then get into the whole in and outs of being born somewhere and having a right to it v not and not. But there we are.

What is interesting in the immigration debate is how many voted, at least anecdotally, in areas of low immigration, i.e. the whole of Wales where levels are small and where there is any it's rarely EU migrants. That is not to say, of course, that the majority are placing their vote in relation to immigration alone. But where they are is it a fear of becoming an immigration area or a sympathy for those areas where it's already an issue. As I said on the referendum thread my god mother was voting on immigration because her area was full. It was, in fact, 500 odd out of population of 33k. My mother started on the immigration path (numbers even lower than the above) but settled on the "laws that they make for us."

The inherent problem with this discussion is that there are inevitably absolute racists in the 17 million. There are likely to be some in the 16 million as well as odd as that may sound. The inherent problem is that you can't categorise anyone as a, b or c. Even those who might be concerned at immigration may have placed at least some of their vote based on making our own laws and that it might include some xenophobia doesn't diminish their vote. What does diminish much of the voting on both sides though is education. Not the level of that exists, but the level of education that took place. As one Doctor wrote in to a paper to say, you wouldn't have an operation take place and have informed consent with what took place from either side.

surrey_commuter

Moontrane wrote:

Pls help me out: what does an "O level" mean? :?:

A much harder version of a GCSE