What next for UKIP

Pep
Pep Posts: 501
edited July 2016 in The cake stop
Correct me if I'm wrong, but everything most people know of UKIP is that they wanted Brexit and less immigration.
After the Brexit referendum, what will their reason to exist?
«1

Comments

  • mrfpb
    mrfpb Posts: 4,569
    Like SNP, who existed to get the independence referendum, they will continue to be the party for protest votes against the establishment parties. But they don't currently have a wider policy set, and continue to attract racist loons, so may get truly exposed in the coming leadership election.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    They will have to rebrand themselves or face the same doom that BNP faced. If they want to survive, they need to come across as a party of the people, rather than a club of racists and homophobes... a new leader is the first step
    left the forum March 2023
  • haydenm
    haydenm Posts: 2,997
    They also had the problem of having a single charismatic face and now he is leaving. I wouldn't surprise me if they bumbled into insignificance again as they were effectively a one policy party. I don't think they have enough credibility to build themselves from this (unlike the SNP, although not the same situation)
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    How ironic would it be if Farage got a peerage and was then appointed as Brexit minister in the next Tory government. Thereby becoming an unelected lawmaker and precisely the kind of politician he loved to hate when he was leader of UKIP...
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,486
    mrfpb wrote:
    Like SNP, who exist to get the independence referendum, they will continue to be the party for protest votes against the establishment parties.
    Fixed that part for you.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • singleton
    singleton Posts: 2,523
    I'd suggest that they have a valid voice until we've actually left the EU and at that point in time they need to either shut up shop or rename/rebrand themselves as something else.
  • mrfpb
    mrfpb Posts: 4,569
    Farage - Racist, middle aged, middle class twit - could be the new Top Gear presenter
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,444
    PBlakeney wrote:
    mrfpb wrote:
    Like SNP, who exist to get the independence referendum, they will continue to be the party for protest votes against the establishment parties.
    Fixed that part for you.

    I don't agree, from living in Scotland for 3 years and having many friends there my experience is that the SNP are far from a single issue party (like UKIP are) and also are much closer to their electorate than my experience of English parties suggests.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,486
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    mrfpb wrote:
    Like SNP, who exist to get the independence referendum, they will continue to be the party for protest votes against the establishment parties.
    Fixed that part for you.

    I don't agree, from living in Scotland for 3 years and having many friends there my experience is that the SNP are far from a single issue party (like UKIP are) and also are much closer to their electorate than my experience of English parties suggests.
    I was simply correcting the past tense part.
    Take it up with mrfpb.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • mrfpb
    mrfpb Posts: 4,569
    PBlakeney wrote:
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    mrfpb wrote:
    Like SNP, who exist to get the independence referendum, they will continue to be the party for protest votes against the establishment parties.
    Fixed that part for you.

    I don't agree, from living in Scotland for 3 years and having many friends there my experience is that the SNP are far from a single issue party (like UKIP are) and also are much closer to their electorate than my experience of English parties suggests.
    I was simply correcting the past tense part.
    Take it up with mrfpb.

    I did say that to succeed UKIP will need a broader policy set. However I think they will continue to attract and appoint racists as candidates - there is not the party discipline that SNP have in place to manage the process properly (SNP have been around a very long time and have managed to learn from their past mistakes). They will most likely lose a lot of funding once Farage is gone and the dust settles.
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,866
    mrfpb wrote:
    Farage - Racist, middle aged, middle class twit - could be the new Top Gear presenter
    You forgot "opinionated" and "gobby"
    Kinesis Pro6
    Marin Nail Trail
    Cotic Solaris
  • slowmart
    slowmart Posts: 4,516
    Less relevanance as they edge out of the door to political oblivion.
    “Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”

    Desmond Tutu
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    Slowmart wrote:
    Less relevanance as they edge out of the door to political oblivion.
    This^.
    Cards on the table, I'm a fervent remainer and also can't stand Farage. However, he has clearly been a leader that people have rallied behind. When he spoke on question time and the like, he came across as credible to viewers (even if a more discerning viewer could see through him).
    Ultimately though, he's a key player in an unlikely victory and he's bowing out at the top. If he stayed, the parties future was only ever declining and with him gone it will be a very rapid decline. There are no credible UKIP spokespeople waiting in the wings. Good riddance.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    morstar wrote:
    Slowmart wrote:
    Less relevanance as they edge out of the door to political oblivion.
    This^.
    Cards on the table, I'm a fervent remainer and also can't stand Farage. However, he has clearly been a leader that people have rallied behind. When he spoke on question time and the like, he came across as credible to viewers (even if a more discerning viewer could see through him).
    Ultimately though, he's a key player in an unlikely victory and he's bowing out at the top. If he stayed, the parties future was only ever declining and with him gone it will be a very rapid decline. There are no credible UKIP spokespeople waiting in the wings. Good riddance.

    I would say there is a demand for a mainstream political party which appeals to people's innermost bigoted fears. Today it is the EU tomorrow it could be Westminster politicians or Asians. Their only problem is the Fptp political system, with PR they would always get 10% of the seats.
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    Surrey Commuter wrote:

    I would say there is a demand for a mainstream political party which appeals to people's innermost bigoted fears. Today it is the EU tomorrow it could be Westminster politicians or Asians. Their only problem is the Fptp political system, with PR they would always get 10% of the seats.

    I half agree. There has to be a credible and charismatic facade to garner support beyond the real fringe elements. Very few place their bigoted fears above all other concerns. Then somebody like Farage convinces them that they have a credible vision that also includes xenophobia and it's a powerful draw.
    Farage was a seemingly credible and charismatic face. I can't stand to look at pictures of him but to deny he had that mobilising effect is to deny the reality. He has been very effective. There'll be another dozen Nick Griffins before there's another Farage.
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    morstar wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:

    I would say there is a demand for a mainstream political party which appeals to people's innermost bigoted fears. Today it is the EU tomorrow it could be Westminster politicians or Asians. Their only problem is the Fptp political system, with PR they would always get 10% of the seats.

    I half agree. There has to be a credible and charismatic facade to garner support beyond the real fringe elements. Very few place their bigoted fears above all other concerns. Then somebody like Farage convinces them that they have a credible vision that also includes xenophobia and it's a powerful draw.
    Farage was a seemingly credible and charismatic face. I can't stand to look at pictures of him but to deny he had that mobilising effect is to deny the reality. He has been very effective. There'll be another dozen Nick Griffins before there's another Farage.

    He is a complete and utter fraud, feathering his nest in the very place he says he despises, how people can support him is a mystery but then again if the mainstream political parties had listened to the more moderate concerns of many people, maybe he would have stayed a nobody and we would nt be facing a potential economic disaster.

    UKIP will unfortunately keep gathering support, regardless of the outcome of Brexit.
  • mr_goo
    mr_goo Posts: 3,770
    Farage will be seen as a someone who changed the face of British and European politics. There is no doubt that he polarised opinion. He appealed to millions for his straight talking and to the communities that felt that they had been left behind by Westminster and Brussels. On the flip side, to the political elite and liberals he was seen as divisive, opinionated and unpleasant. Whatever our views of him, he stuck to his plan to get the UK out of the EU and it has come to pass.

    As for UKIP as a party, their job will be to police the negotiations that the new PM, cabinet and others will undertake with Brussels.
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Farage will be seen as a someone who changed the face of British and European politics. There is no doubt that he polarised opinion. He appealed to millions for his straight talking and to the communities that felt that they had been left behind by Westminster and Brussels. On the flip side, to the political elite and liberals he was seen as divisive, opinionated and unpleasant. Whatever our views of him, he stuck to his plan to get the UK out of the EU and it has come to pass.

    As for UKIP as a party, their job will be to police the negotiations that the new PM, cabinet and others will undertake with Brussels.

    You could replace Farage with Mugabe

    He polarised opinion... Appealed to millions... Communities that felt they had been left behind...seen as opinionated, divisive and unpleasant...Whatever our views of him he stuck to his plan to get the whites out of power in Zimbabwe and it has come to pass.

    If nothing else I should be applauded for not mentioning the Nazis.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    UKIP ought to collapse under its own moronicness.

    Too often too many Kippers have come out with full blown nutterisms.

    Then again, UK ought to have not left the EU so what do I know?

    No doubt some kipper will remark that it's using words like "ought", whilst not wearing a felt collared coat and holding a pint, means I'm out of touch.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... ision.html

    http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/6427804

    http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/5206370

    http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/5126595

    http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/4587828

    http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/3199663
    _
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    mamba80 wrote:

    UKIP will unfortunately keep gathering support, regardless of the outcome of Brexit.

    That may happen in the very short term but they'll quickly unravel without Farage. Even Carswell and Farage couldn't agree on anything but Farage kept the media rolling. They are nothing but a cluelesss collective of hate and self interest but Farages charisma glossed over that. They are a one person party and he's just left.
    Labour should be a powerhouse at present with such a divisive government in power but they're imploding despite having a well established infrastructure and constitution. UKIPs implosion will put Labours to shame. The non-racists who have supported them will quickly jump ship as the bile continually leaks out and there's no Farage to gloss over it.
  • mr_goo
    mr_goo Posts: 3,770
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Farage will be seen as a someone who changed the face of British and European politics. There is no doubt that he polarised opinion. He appealed to millions for his straight talking and to the communities that felt that they had been left behind by Westminster and Brussels. On the flip side, to the political elite and liberals he was seen as divisive, opinionated and unpleasant. Whatever our views of him, he stuck to his plan to get the UK out of the EU and it has come to pass.

    As for UKIP as a party, their job will be to police the negotiations that the new PM, cabinet and others will undertake with Brussels.

    You could replace Farage with Mugabe

    He polarised opinion... Appealed to millions... Communities that felt they had been left behind...seen as opinionated, divisive and unpleasant...Whatever our views of him he stuck to his plan to get the whites out of power in Zimbabwe and it has come to pass.

    If nothing else I should be applauded for not mentioning the Nazis.


    I'm pretty sure that you are trying to bait me on this. My post was not to herald or celebrate what he has done in his political life.
    Has this upset you? Do you feel the need to go running off to the mods yet again?
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,486
    morstar wrote:
    ...They are nothing but a cluelesss collective of hate and self interest but Farages charisma glossed over that. They are a one person party and he's just left...
    They said the same about the SNP and Salmond.
    Look how that's worked out.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Farage will be seen as a someone who changed the face of British and European politics. There is no doubt that he polarised opinion. He appealed to millions for his straight talking and to the communities that felt that they had been left behind by Westminster and Brussels. On the flip side, to the political elite and liberals he was seen as divisive, opinionated and unpleasant. Whatever our views of him, he stuck to his plan to get the UK out of the EU and it has come to pass.

    As for UKIP as a party, their job will be to police the negotiations that the new PM, cabinet and others will undertake with Brussels.

    You could replace Farage with Mugabe

    He polarised opinion... Appealed to millions... Communities that felt they had been left behind...seen as opinionated, divisive and unpleasant...Whatever our views of him he stuck to his plan to get the whites out of power in Zimbabwe and it has come to pass.

    If nothing else I should be applauded for not mentioning the Nazis.


    I'm pretty sure that you are trying to bait me on this. My post was not to herald or celebrate what he has done in his political life.
    Has this upset you? Do you feel the need to go running off to the mods yet again?

    I have never made a complaint to mods on this or any other site? What do you think I complained about? I Thought they had scrapped the mods.

    Not trying to bait you, it was my light hearted way of suggesting that whilst you can admire a conviction politician surely the effects of their actions need to be considered when judging them.
  • mr_goo
    mr_goo Posts: 3,770
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Farage will be seen as a someone who changed the face of British and European politics. There is no doubt that he polarised opinion. He appealed to millions for his straight talking and to the communities that felt that they had been left behind by Westminster and Brussels. On the flip side, to the political elite and liberals he was seen as divisive, opinionated and unpleasant. Whatever our views of him, he stuck to his plan to get the UK out of the EU and it has come to pass.

    As for UKIP as a party, their job will be to police the negotiations that the new PM, cabinet and others will undertake with Brussels.

    You could replace Farage with Mugabe

    He polarised opinion... Appealed to millions... Communities that felt they had been left behind...seen as opinionated, divisive and unpleasant...Whatever our views of him he stuck to his plan to get the whites out of power in Zimbabwe and it has come to pass.

    If nothing else I should be applauded for not mentioning the Nazis.


    I'm pretty sure that you are trying to bait me on this. My post was not to herald or celebrate what he has done in his political life.
    Has this upset you? Do you feel the need to go running off to the mods yet again?

    I have never made a complaint to mods on this or any other site? What do you think I complained about? I Thought they had scrapped the mods.

    Not trying to bait you, it was my light hearted way of suggesting that whilst you can admire a conviction politician surely the effects of their actions need to be considered when judging them.

    Please accept my sincere apology for the accusation. I am now very curious as to who took exception to my posts regarding the EU debates.
    As for your response re conviction politicians, maybe you are confusing politician with dictator. Mugabe, Hitler, Stalin, Assad, Gaddafi and Saddam Hussain could never really be labelled as politicians.
    Ergo, Farage was never going to get to a position of power. He was just a catalyst for debate about the EU, immigration (I'm not against this, but it does need some control) and democracy (EU Commision is not).
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Farage will be seen as a someone who changed the face of British and European politics. There is no doubt that he polarised opinion. He appealed to millions for his straight talking and to the communities that felt that they had been left behind by Westminster and Brussels. On the flip side, to the political elite and liberals he was seen as divisive, opinionated and unpleasant. Whatever our views of him, he stuck to his plan to get the UK out of the EU and it has come to pass.

    As for UKIP as a party, their job will be to police the negotiations that the new PM, cabinet and others will undertake with Brussels.

    You could replace Farage with Mugabe

    He polarised opinion... Appealed to millions... Communities that felt they had been left behind...seen as opinionated, divisive and unpleasant...Whatever our views of him he stuck to his plan to get the whites out of power in Zimbabwe and it has come to pass.

    If nothing else I should be applauded for not mentioning the Nazis.


    I'm pretty sure that you are trying to bait me on this. My post was not to herald or celebrate what he has done in his political life.
    Has this upset you? Do you feel the need to go running off to the mods yet again?

    I have never made a complaint to mods on this or any other site? What do you think I complained about? I Thought they had scrapped the mods.

    Not trying to bait you, it was my light hearted way of suggesting that whilst you can admire a conviction politician surely the effects of their actions need to be considered when judging them.

    Please accept my sincere apology for the accusation. I am now very curious as to who took exception to my posts regarding the EU debates.
    As for your response re conviction politicians, maybe you are confusing politician with dictator. Mugabe, Hitler, Stalin, Assad, Gaddafi and Saddam Hussain could never really be labelled as politicians.
    Ergo, Farage was never going to get to a position of power. He was just a catalyst for debate about the EU, immigration (I'm not against this, but it does need some control) and democracy (EU Commision is not).

    Apology accepted. I think the EU debate has stayed well within the limits. Was it a specific complaint?

    As I said my comparison was a light hearted analogy so I will only say that Hitler and Mugabe were definitely politicians, unlike Farage they won elections.
  • mr_goo
    mr_goo Posts: 3,770
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Farage will be seen as a someone who changed the face of British and European politics. There is no doubt that he polarised opinion. He appealed to millions for his straight talking and to the communities that felt that they had been left behind by Westminster and Brussels. On the flip side, to the political elite and liberals he was seen as divisive, opinionated and unpleasant. Whatever our views of him, he stuck to his plan to get the UK out of the EU and it has come to pass.

    As for UKIP as a party, their job will be to police the negotiations that the new PM, cabinet and others will undertake with Brussels.

    You could replace Farage with Mugabe

    He polarised opinion... Appealed to millions... Communities that felt they had been left behind...seen as opinionated, divisive and unpleasant...Whatever our views of him he stuck to his plan to get the whites out of power in Zimbabwe and it has come to pass.

    If nothing else I should be applauded for not mentioning the Nazis.


    I'm pretty sure that you are trying to bait me on this. My post was not to herald or celebrate what he has done in his political life.
    Has this upset you? Do you feel the need to go running off to the mods yet again?

    I have never made a complaint to mods on this or any other site? What do you think I complained about? I Thought they had scrapped the mods.

    Not trying to bait you, it was my light hearted way of suggesting that whilst you can admire a conviction politician surely the effects of their actions need to be considered when judging them.

    Please accept my sincere apology for the accusation. I am now very curious as to who took exception to my posts regarding the EU debates.
    As for your response re conviction politicians, maybe you are confusing politician with dictator. Mugabe, Hitler, Stalin, Assad, Gaddafi and Saddam Hussain could never really be labelled as politicians.
    Ergo, Farage was never going to get to a position of power. He was just a catalyst for debate about the EU, immigration (I'm not against this, but it does need some control) and democracy (EU Commision is not).

    Apology accepted. I think the EU debate has stayed well within the limits. Was it a specific complaint?

    As I said my comparison was a light hearted analogy so I will only say that Hitler and Mugabe were definitely politicians, unlike Farage they won elections.

    I have requested what the nature of the complaint was. What post I made that so upset someone that they felt they needed to report me. And who it was that made complaint. All of which have been denied me, with the response intimating that it was all to do with the EU debate and to keep it friendly.
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • haydenm
    haydenm Posts: 2,997
    PBlakeney wrote:
    morstar wrote:
    ...They are nothing but a cluelesss collective of hate and self interest but Farages charisma glossed over that. They are a one person party and he's just left...
    They said the same about the SNP and Salmond.
    Look how that's worked out.

    I think the difference is that Salmond wasn't seen to be a frothing at the mouth racist and garnered a lot of credible support (however much I disliked him). They have a proper manifesto and have replaced Scottish Labour with what the people of Scotland actually wanted by the looks of things. I'm not saying it wont happen but I just don't see that opportunity for UKIP in England
  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    HaydenM wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    morstar wrote:
    ...They are nothing but a cluelesss collective of hate and self interest but Farages charisma glossed over that. They are a one person party and he's just left...
    They said the same about the SNP and Salmond.
    Look how that's worked out.

    I think the difference is that Salmond wasn't seen to be a frothing at the mouth racist and garnered a lot of credible support (however much I disliked him). They have a proper manifesto and have replaced Scottish Labour with what the people of Scotland actually wanted by the looks of things. I'm not saying it wont happen but I just don't see that opportunity for UKIP in England

    Unfortunately I do :( With labour being so out of touch with it base UKIP have already started repositioning themselves as the party of the working class. If they get a good leader they will grow on this. Fortunately in the recent debates I've not seen anyone who is good enough and I hope they wither away into obscurity
  • haydenm
    haydenm Posts: 2,997
    Mr Goo wrote:
    I have requested what the nature of the complaint was. What post I made that so upset someone that they felt they needed to report me. And who it was that made complaint. All of which have been denied me, with the response intimating that it was all to do with the EU debate and to keep it friendly.

    I think it all went off piste after I took the mick out of something you said, my comment was valid but I have a feeling we might have had a more sensible debate if I hadn't been such a c*ck about it :wink:

    I didn't report you though, it was a good distraction from work
  • haydenm
    haydenm Posts: 2,997
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    HaydenM wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    morstar wrote:
    ...They are nothing but a cluelesss collective of hate and self interest but Farages charisma glossed over that. They are a one person party and he's just left...
    They said the same about the SNP and Salmond.
    Look how that's worked out.

    I think the difference is that Salmond wasn't seen to be a frothing at the mouth racist and garnered a lot of credible support (however much I disliked him). They have a proper manifesto and have replaced Scottish Labour with what the people of Scotland actually wanted by the looks of things. I'm not saying it wont happen but I just don't see that opportunity for UKIP in England

    Unfortunately I do :( With labour being so out of touch with it base UKIP have already started repositioning themselves as the party of the working class. If they get a good leader they will grow on this. Fortunately in the recent debates I've not seen anyone who is good enough and I hope they wither away into obscurity

    Good point, it remains to be seen who rises from the ashes after this mess in the main parties

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