Upper body strength and cycling

haydenm

I've been thinking about this for a while so I thought I might as well ask on here, I'm after some opinions and food for thought. I have had a look through the info online about this but I have a few specific questions. Realistically this is just stoking my highly delusional self image as some sort of pro racer but thanks for going along with it

First off, I am a very keen mountain biker, formerly downhill and now 'enduro' (just like everyone else). I am 'training' for the two most local rounds of the British and Scottish enduro series' in October where upper body strength is important along with leg strength and cardio, all of which have improved vastly since January (when I bought my road bike for mixed training). Enduro training is dangerous but fun, I've decided to do a bit more road cycling for the time being

The thing is, I love riding bikes and road cycling has grown on me to be nearly on par with mtb. So, how compatible do you think the two riding disciplines are in terms of body shape and training? I'm very short (164cm, 64kg) so presumably I would be suited to the climbing side of road cycling (coincidentally what I enjoy), would carrying excess muscle make that much of an impact or would general strength be key to the steepest sections? Do I need to work out what my actual long term priorities are and train accordingly or can I continue crashing my mtb and wishing I was a better road cyclist as usual?

Like I said, I'm highly delusional so this is probably a hypothetical thread but it's interesting to me all the same...

diamonddog

I am 165cm and weigh in at 53 kg ready to ride. upper body strength IMO would be a negative.
Quintana etc weigh in the 50's kg at similar heights and are skinny. Froome is 185 ish cm and weighs in the high 60's kg.

fenix

Well look at Froome and how puny the elite road cyclists are. You don't need upper body strength on the road.

That said I'm sure your good cardio fitness will help you - but if you've got muscles you'll never win the Tour De France. Sorry.

I'm sure you'll do fine though if your ambitions aren't to turn pro.

haydenm

I should point out that there is a certain amount of excess fat on my upper body too but I seem to just be converting it to muscle rather than losing weight at the moment (after losing just less than a stone since Christmas). I wouldn't say I was extremely muscle bound at all but looking at the pros they look practically emaciated, I was hoping that some of the climbing specialists would have a bit more to them

craigus89

You don't need upper body strength as evidenced by most serious racers looking like a 12 year old boy from the waist up. Core strength is different. From a cycling point of view, losing upper body weight can only be beneficial.

I really wouldn't worry about it though, you'll likely never be at a level where the only remaining gain to be had is lose weight, and you probably don't want to have the beach body of a 12 year old boy.

slowmart

Do what makes you a happy, carrying a few extra pounds in muscle is hardly going to slow you down in the real world but may get you laid more often

haydenm

I'll let the Mrs know!

Thanks for the replies by the way, the results are pretty much as I feared

zoomer42

If you want to get as fast as you can on these things then forget training your top half and let the guns fade away.

fenix

You can't convert fat to muscle or vice versa.

That's like turning lead to gold.

haydenm

Fenix wrote:

You can't convert fat to muscle or vice versa.

That's like turning lead to gold.

No, but I can stop losing weight and sit at a constant by gaining muscle

Admittedly that isn't what I said in my post however

webboo

It might depend on what you do to get strong. There are plenty of skinny rock climbers who are very good, it might depend on whether you gain muscle easily.
Try just doing body weight exs pull ups, press up dips.

T C

Maybe don't try and compare with "pure" climbers? Cavendish and Sagan aren't stick thin but I'm betting they'll beat me up Alpe D'Huez. I don't think there's many climbs in the UK where a Froome physique is paramount, maybe go for the power climber physique?

kajjal

Its the usual power v weight. If you bulked up to body builder levels your cycling would suffer alot. Most fast road cyclists are shorter and lighter. The poster above weighs a little over half my weight at 100kg, is alot shorter and would likely destroy me on road especially up hill. Mountain biking would be very different where strength, power and bike handling come into it alot more which is why i have 3 koms and a 2nd off road. Nothing close to that on road but enjoy them both.

prhymeate

I only have puny arms and have rented bikes for downhill in the alps a few times, it's always fun but I definitely felt like I needed a lot more upper body strength to stop the bike bouncing around so much. I found trying to ride up even the smallest incline with a full face helmet, padding and sitting with my knees up to my ears was as much of a workout as any hill climb on a road bike! I definitely underestimated how strong and fit you have to be for that kind of riding. If you want to keep doing downhill and road I'd find a happy medium and enjoy both. I'd love to have the option.

haydenm

Prhymeate wrote:

I only have puny arms and have rented bikes for downhill in the alps a few times, it's always fun but I definitely felt like I needed a lot more upper body strength to stop the bike bouncing around so much. I found trying to ride up even the smallest incline with a full face helmet, padding and sitting with my knees up to my ears was as much of a workout as any hill climb on a road bike! I definitely underestimated how strong and fit you have to be for that kind of riding. If you want to keep doing downhill and road I'd find a happy medium and enjoy both. I'd love to have the option.

I used to go to the Alps most summers and spent a summer in Whistler too, then I went to uni, drank too much beer and barely rode. I graduated two years ago then moved to Scotland for work, both the road and the mtb riding round here are immense. My biggest problem on those big alpine descents is shoulder and lower arm fatigue leading to big crashes, don't get that so much now though! My current MTB pedals pretty well for a bike capable of the descents, plus it has a dropper seat post so it won't be as hard to pedal as the DH bike you hired out there!

prhymeate

HaydenM wrote:

I used to go to the Alps most summers and spent a summer in Whistler too, then I went to uni, drank too much beer and barely rode. I graduated two years ago then moved to Scotland for work, both the road and the mtb riding round here are immense. My biggest problem on those big alpine descents is shoulder and lower arm fatigue leading to big crashes, don't get that so much now though! My current MTB pedals pretty well for a bike capable of the descents, plus it has a dropper seat post so it won't be as hard to pedal as the DH bike you hired out there!

Nice, you weren't in Morzine were you? Seemed to be full of brits and most of them were there for the downhill. Great place for it.

frisbee

Motorbike track days are far tougher than any gym session so I can believe that a proper long off road descent can hammer the arms.

haydenm

Prhymeate wrote:

HaydenM wrote:

I used to go to the Alps most summers and spent a summer in Whistler too, then I went to uni, drank too much beer and barely rode. I graduated two years ago then moved to Scotland for work, both the road and the mtb riding round here are immense. My biggest problem on those big alpine descents is shoulder and lower arm fatigue leading to big crashes, don't get that so much now though! My current MTB pedals pretty well for a bike capable of the descents, plus it has a dropper seat post so it won't be as hard to pedal as the DH bike you hired out there!

Nice, you weren't in Morzine were you? Seemed to be full of brits and most of them were there for the downhill. Great place for it.

I was, Morzine and Les Gets depending on where we found cheap accommodation. I'll be back in Morzine in August which will no doubt end in injury! Debating whether to take the road bike as well but I'm not sure I'll have time for any Tour climbs in a week

phreak

HaydenM wrote:

I should point out that there is a certain amount of excess fat on my upper body too but I seem to just be converting it to muscle rather than losing weight at the moment (after losing just less than a stone since Christmas). I wouldn't say I was extremely muscle bound at all but looking at the pros they look practically emaciated, I was hoping that some of the climbing specialists would have a bit more to them

You can have both. I go to the gym a few times a week to maintain some all over fitness (I swam as a youngster so always had decent upper body strength) and am about your height but between 56-58kg. I accept I could be lighter if I shed a bit of muscle, but I suspect I'm lighter than 99% of cyclists already so am not too concerned.

From experience, if you cycle a decent amount then it'll be very hard to get too bulky, so just work on getting your body fat down and you'll be light for cycling whilst still having the more general fitness that (imo) is sensible for amateurs.

diy

I do a mix of cycling (road, TT and mtb enduro) and conventional body building (big low rep weights), its roughly 50/50 between cycling and strength training for me. Unless you are <10% bf, I think the draw backs won't be that bad. I reckon I'm carrying about 4-6kg of muscle more than I could be and about 3-4kg of fat more than I need.

I think its probably more of an issue if you are doing lots of heavy squats rather than bench pressing for example. I have found strength conditioning helpful dealing with the vibration and upper body work needed for very long MTB rides, but as others have said - it has no benefit on the road. I too would rather be a slow roadie than have the body of a small boy.