Orlando Massacre

mr_goo

The incident of the utmost tragedy is already old news. Has anyone else noticed that the father of the sick bar steward who gunned them down, is now making statements that seem to apportion blame to others.
He even came out with the outrageous statement that his son didn't have to do what he did as 'god will punish homosexuals'.

pblakeney

According to Trump, the main reason for the massacre was that not everybody had a gun.
Trump going out of his way to prove Dawin's theory of evolution?

Pross

PBlakeney wrote:

According to Trump, the main reason for the massacre was that not everybody had a gun.
Trump going out of his way to prove Dawin's theory of evolution?

And stopping people 'from certain countries' going to the US yet again. He really has decided that bigotry is the best way to win an election over there and alas I think he may be proved right! He must have had a hard time deciding whether to opt for anti-Muslim or homophobic stance on this one.

lostboysaint

Trump going out of his way to ensure he has the vote from the less than averagely endowed in the intelligence department.

rick_chasey

Mr Goo wrote:

The incident of the utmost tragedy is already old news. Has anyone else noticed that the father of the sick bar steward who gunned them down, is now making statements that seem to apportion blame to others.
He even came out with the outrageous statement that his son didn't have to do what he did as 'god will punish homosexuals'.

To be clear, what he meant by that comment was his son shouldn't have gone around shooting gays, because it wasn't his son's place to do so, but God's. He is saying, in short, his son should not have played God.

But yeah, the father is also clearly homophobic, as per the above comment.

veronese68

I was reading about what you have to do in order to be refused a gun in Florida. Not much would seem to be the answer, not even being on a terror watch list. I know the shooter wasn't on a watch list but had been investigated. As others have said Trump will gain from this which is worrying because if they had any sense it would push them the other way. Bringing in gun laws would be a start.

mamba80

Full access to automatic weapons and very limited healthcare for the mentally ill.

Wasn't another recent school shooting attributed to a young man who was mentally ill ?

what they can do about? no one has the answer to that, too late for Gun laws even if they could and the US doesnt want healthcare for all.

pblakeney

mamba80 wrote:

Full access to automatic weapons and very limited healthcare for the mentally ill.

Wasn't another recent school shooting attributed to a young man who was mentally ill ?

what they can do about? no one has the answer to that, too late for Gun laws even if they could and the US doesnt want healthcare for all.

Someone on Facebook posted a lengthy post basically saying the procedure to buy a gun should be at least the same as getting an abortion. ie, difficult, troublesome and takes a long time. Fair enough I thought.

slowmart

Veronese68 wrote:

I was reading about what you have to do in order to be refused a gun in Florida. Not much would seem to be the answer, not even being on a terror watch list. I know the shooter wasn't on a watch list but had been investigated. As others have said Trump will gain from this which is worrying because if they had any sense it would push them the other way. Bringing in gun laws would be a start.

Orlando shows the access to firearms is ludicrously easy and the threat of home grown terrorism needs to be met across more channels than purely militarily .

whatever restrictions, they only apply to licensed arms dealers. As a private individual you can sell a gun to anyone without meeting the threshold that the law applies to gun dealers in the state of florida......

I remember listening to a psychologist on the radio some 20 years ago describing gun crime and the consequence of easy access to firearms. "Guns" he said " are a permanent solution to a temporary problem"

lostboysaint

Veronese68 wrote:

Trump will gain from this which is worrying .............

because it's about as racist as it gets. I had to laugh when I saw him prattling on about closing borders to certain peoples and religions again last night when this shooter was BORN IN NEW YORK!!

singleton

lostboysaint wrote:

Trump going out of his way to ensure he has the vote from the less than averagely endowed in the intelligence department.

Half the population are below average intelligence.
Combine that with the fact that you have to go back to 1968 to find a turnout percentage higher than 57.1%, and sadly for the world, I think he may be onto a winning strtegy.

twist83

mamba80 wrote:

Full access to automatic weapons and very limited healthcare for the mentally ill.

Wasn't another recent school shooting attributed to a young man who was mentally ill ?

what they can do about? no one has the answer to that, too late for Gun laws even if they could and the US doesnt want healthcare for all.

Note strictly true. Auto weapons can only be owned if they were registered before 1986 in Florida. Semi Auto only.

I shoot (Target & practical) and have done since I was about 6 years old. I often visit the States as it allows access to the sort of guns which have been restricted for many years in the UK for now.

Banning weapons will never happen in the states. For a start the NRA and gun manufacturers are far to influential and deep routed for this to ever happen.

Even as a keen shooter, I can see the need for some form of reform to at least try and limit this type of person getting his hands on a firearm. The other flip side is he probably would have obtained it one way or another.

Having spent a great deal of time shooting with American citizens. The vast majority understand that something needs to be done and if it means more checks and waiting a period of time to get what they want, they are happy with this.

Even in this country getting an Firearms Certificate does not really screen for mental illness etc as well as it should. The laws in this country are a cobbled together bundle of amendments from 30-40 years ago.

You cannot own a pistol however I have a slot on my certificate for a High Capacity semi auto shotgun and permission to buy and use Solid Slug ammunition for competition.

Frank the tank

What a stat, the shooting in the USA is the 176th time this year alone where four or more people have been shot dead in a single incident in that country.
INSANE!!!!!!

ddraver

For all the weapons available to "a good guy with a gun", the US appears to be 0 for 2 against ISIS thus far...

veronese68

Frank the tank wrote:

What a stat, the shooting in the USA is the 176th time this year alone where four or more people have been shot dead in a single incident in that country.
INSANE!!!!!!

Last year it was more than one a day so they are about on track. The rest of the world can see it, a large part of the US can see it and then you have the rest of them.

twist83

One visit we went to Kentucky. There was a large gap/divide between normal human beings and then the 'others' as they refer to them as.

Backward is a polite word. The chaps we were with said you do NOT venture into or onto any of their land. Don't look at them strange or frequent any of the places they do. They are an incredibly paranoid and simple bunch.

These I suspect are a large chunk voting for Trump.

Not all of the chaps in the US are gun toting nutters. Sure they love their guns and shooting however are responsible with it.

twist83

ddraver wrote:

For all the weapons available to "a good guy with a gun", the US appears to be 0 for 2 against ISIS thus far...

Pretty much all the shootings are done in No Gun Zones. So none of the good guys would even have a chance to respond to any threat. I am sure had there been (Not saying they should be!) armed civilians, they would have done their best to take him down.

ddraver

Are you suggesting that giving drunk people in clubs guns is a good idea?

veronese68

After one shooting in a cinema last year our MD (American) said that given the location most people in there would have been armed and he was amazed people didn't start shooting back in the darkness killing everybody in the process.

pblakeney

ddraver wrote:

Are you suggesting that giving drunk people in clubs guns is a good idea?

Well, Trump certainly does. :roll: :roll: :roll:

twist83

ddraver wrote:

Are you suggesting that giving drunk people in clubs guns is a good idea?

I think you need to read my message in context especially the bracketed part!!

Of course I am not. I am saying that they target places where there will be and should be no firearms. The response was in response to the Good guy with a gun comment.

I have stated there should be tougher restrictions, I have stated no they shouldn't be drunks with guns.

twist83

Veronese68 wrote:

After one shooting in a cinema last year our MD (American) said that given the location most people in there would have been armed and he was amazed people didn't start shooting back in the darkness killing everybody in the process.

A huge majority of Cinemas are designated No Gun zones as well to be fair.

secretsam

twist83 wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

Full access to automatic weapons and very limited healthcare for the mentally ill.

Wasn't another recent school shooting attributed to a young man who was mentally ill ?

what they can do about? no one has the answer to that, too late for Gun laws even if they could and the US doesnt want healthcare for all.

Note strictly true. Auto weapons can only be owned if they were registered before 1986 in Florida. Semi Auto only.

That's OK then, no problems there.

FFS, I don't know a single person who owns a "gun" of any kind. I'd suggest that in the UK, if you admit you own a gun and aren't a farmer, people kind of look at you a bit strange...

rick_chasey

twist83 wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

After one shooting in a cinema last year our MD (American) said that given the location most people in there would have been armed and he was amazed people didn't start shooting back in the darkness killing everybody in the process.

A huge majority of Cinemas are designated No Gun zones as well to be fair.

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Man-Shoo ... 32515.html

rick_chasey

Curiously, toddlers in the US have killed 23 people so far this year - at least ,when the article was reported.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... this-year/

I'm sure the solution is to make sure everyone is armed to avoid the deadly threat that is toddlers with guns.

After all, you could just kill the toddler before it killed you, right?

dinyull

I saw a cracking comment on twitter t'other day along the lines of:

In the aftermath of 9/11 they banned shampoo and liquids from airports/flights because there was a weakness and the terrorists exploited it. This is deemed acceptable yet banning semi-automatic gun sales isn't.

mamba80

twist83 wrote:

ddraver wrote:

For all the weapons available to "a good guy with a gun", the US appears to be 0 for 2 against ISIS thus far...

Pretty much all the shootings are done in No Gun Zones. So none of the good guys would even have a chance to respond to any threat. I am sure had there been (Not saying they should be!) armed civilians, they would have done their best to take him down.

i dont know how much you know about facing a guy with an automatic weapon, who is primed for action, has planned his attack and is ready to die for his cause/or is mentally ill ? esp if you are completely untrained (in Combat) and have a handgun.

the only place this has remotely worked is Israel but virtually all civilians have some form of military training.

Pross

Rick Chasey wrote:

Curiously, toddlers in the US have killed 23 people so far this year - at least ,when the article was reported.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... this-year/

I'm sure the solution is to make sure everyone is armed to avoid the deadly threat that is toddlers with guns.

After all, you could just kill the toddler before it killed you, right?

6 people have been shot by their own dogs in the US in the past 5 years too (I don't know how many have been shot by other people's dogs though).

I suspect if you asked Trump he would be blaming these on Chihuahuas or Afghan Hounds and suggesting a ban on them being allowed in the US!

pblakeney

Dinyull wrote:

I saw a cracking comment on twitter t'other day along the lines of:

In the aftermath of 9/11 they banned shampoo and liquids from airports/flights because there was a weakness and the terrorists exploited it. This is deemed acceptable yet banning semi-automatic gun sales isn't.

Kinder eggs are banned. Apparently.

ddraver

Trevor - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RolEI5n4Jxs - who actually says something that I ve been afraid to say...

chris_bass

Singleton wrote:

lostboysaint wrote:

Trump going out of his way to ensure he has the vote from the less than averagely endowed in the intelligence department.

Half the population are below average intelligence.
Combine that with the fact that you have to go back to 1968 to find a turnout percentage higher than 57.1%, and sadly for the world, I think he may be onto a winning strtegy.

That very much depends on what average you are using!