Not sure if i was mis sold my bike. help!

AdamRu

Hi guys, New member/new cyclist here.

I’m not sure if Evans Cycles mis sold me my bike.

A few months ago i decided that I wanted to get my first serious bike, a GT grade carbon 105 (a big step up from my Jammis commuter something rather…) and I think i’ve been mis sold it.

The problem is that I’m not sure if it’s my fault because of my lack of knowledge, or Evans fault because of their negligence in dealing with an unknowledgeable customer.

I bought the bike to tour with, figuring that a cyclocross bike sounded perfect for my needs, not knowing how good the roads would be or even if the roads would be tarmac. I had phoned up a few days earlier and asked to give it a test ride, when I got to the shop I had to wait for the mechanic to bring it out and was speaking to the member of staff that physically sold me the bike. I explained that I wanted to use it for touring internationally and wanted to do some more extended tours which included wild camping (I’d need a tent, sleeping bag and mat) to which he listened, otherwise we just made small talk. I tried it out, was blown away by the difference in performance and bought it.

That was about 5 months ago and I found out, as I am preparing for my first tour with a friend (who is also quite inexperienced) that I can’t fit pannier racks to the bike. This of course makes it completely innapropriate for my needs. This is further complicated because I fractured a rib and couldn’t cycle for 3 months, I wasn’t considering anything about the bike because it hurt to breathe let alone jump on a bike during this time.

I honestly can’t remember if I mentioned racks specifically to the salesman but I’m wondering if saying that the bike was for extended touring is enough of an implication that he should have mentioned something. It was very obvious on the day that I was barely an amateur cyclist, I bought a helmet (and needed help choosing one out, I asked more questions about helmets than i’m proud to admit).. I also asked the salesman about appropriate tyres on the day and bought the schwalbe marathon plus model on his recommendation with the bike, I emphasised the fact that I would be covering long distances and again I asked him questions that would otherwise be obvious to even an amateur who takes a serious interest. two examples of questions that I asked him after reading the fact that they were tubeless wheels were “I can still use tubes can’t I?” and “would it be better for me to use tubes or go tubeless?” The tyres were fitted straight away and when the mechanic brought out the bike he was visibly shocked that I was the (soon to be) owner, even exclaiming “I didn’t realise this bike was for you!”

Do you think I have a case? how would I pursue it? I do otherwise love my bike but I need to be able to put racks on it, I’m sure that handlebar/saddle bags won’t be appropriate for me as they wouldn’t hold enough stuff, not even taking into account the fact that you shouldn’t put heavier items in them.

If this is all my fault is there any way I can get some kind of steel frameset and move all the components over? I'd really appreciate some help with working out how if that's the case.

Thanks for getting to the end of this!
Adam

prhymeate

To me it sounds like the sales person should have pointed you in the direction of a bike that can take a rack. That said, I think it's too late to do anything about it considering that was 5 months ago. I imagine your best bet is to sell it and buy one that suits your needs.

darkhairedlord

No, not mis sold, mid bought. It took 5 months for you to notice there were no mounts so it doesn't sound as though the idea of putting them on was even in your thoughts at the time or anytime since. Still, I blame wiggle.

stevie63

It isn't a problem, you can use p-clips to fit a rack to pretty much any bike.

webboo

You can get brackets that fit on your hubs by the quick release and one to go on your seat pin,which you can then fit pannier racks to. My mate does this all the time on his S Works Roubaix.

spasypaddy

maybe the salesman thought you'd be taking a trailer rather than pannier bags etc.

not his fault if you didn't mention it. however he could have asked how you planned on carrying all that stuff.

darkhairedlord

Always someone else's fault.

andcp

Not miss sold but not unsalvagesble, use the search function- http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... t=12796018

rolf_f

stevie63 wrote:

It isn't a problem, you can use p-clips to fit a rack to pretty much any bike.

I wouldn't rush to recommend P clipping a full rack set to a carbon frame for fully loaded touring.

drlodge

Possibly mis-sold, but I would reckon more than a "reasonable amount of time" has now passed for you to bring a successful claim.

bendertherobot

What Jamis is it? I don't think you were mis-sold but, with some fettling, your Jamis might be the boy to tour on.

AdamRu

Thanks for the replies guys, I'm still waiting for a response from Evans but I contacted citizens advice and explained my problem to somebody there, he said that I do have a case and in fact I would have up to 6 years after purchase to make a case. Crucially, because this is before the 6 month mark the onus is on the company to prove no wrong doing and in fact I should except nothing less than a full refund or equivalent (I have suggested that I buy a bike that is "fit for purpose" through them, which will have the upside of at least mitigating impact to the company).

As far as P clips go Rolf F raises the point I was going to, I'm going to be doing long, self supported tours carrying tent/sleeping bag/mat and camera equipment, and P clips would more than likely wreck my frame.

I've looked at seat bags and the issue of space comes to mind, there just isn't enough physical space for my items, I'd also be worried about my centre of gravity and the overall strength with items that are denser than clothes/sleeping bags going in to the bag. As far as i understand saddle bags are designed for lighter items and wouldn't be appropriate, even for carrying food.

FYI this all comes from the consumer rights act 2015, It's fairly new but definitely worth having a read of.

Adam

AdamRu

@bendertherobot It looks like i'm going to be riding the Jamis, i think it's the commuter 1, it'll do fine for my first tour but I'm more worried about this as a long term prospect as i get more serious, the more cycling I do the more I love it and I already wild camp etc so it's not like that's going to put me off of ever doing it again. I hope to do a round the world tour when I finish university for example.

bendertherobot

AdamRu wrote:

Thanks for the replies guys, I'm still waiting for a response from Evans but I contacted citizens advice and explained my problem to somebody there, he said that I do have a case and in fact I would have up to 6 years after purchase to make a case. Crucially, because this is before the 6 month mark the onus is on the company to prove no wrong doing and in fact I should except nothing less than a full refund or equivalent (I have suggested that I buy a bike that is "fit for purpose" through them, which will have the upside of at least mitigating impact to the company).

As far as P clips go Rolf F raises the point I was going to, I'm going to be doing long, self supported tours carrying tent/sleeping bag/mat and camera equipment, and P clips would more than likely wreck my frame.

I've looked at seat bags and the issue of space comes to mind, there just isn't enough physical space for my items, I'd also be worried about my centre of gravity and the overall strength with items that are denser than clothes/sleeping bags going in to the bag. As far as i understand saddle bags are designed for lighter items and wouldn't be appropriate, even for carrying food.

FYI this all comes from the consumer rights act 2015, It's fairly new but definitely worth having a read of.

Adam

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 is little different from what came before. Goods must be of satisfactory quality etc. There are parts about implied terms as to fitness etc which you could rely on.

The 6 years thing is a red herring. It's simply the limitation period for contract cases. I guarantee you that a claim brought at year 5 based on your facts would fail.

The 6 month question is also a red herring. That's designed to deal with faults and shifts the burden of proof back to the retailer. It would be very hard to make a case that the fault is the mis-description.

Chance your arm, but be prepared to take it to the small claims court. The first question the defence will ask you is whether you know anything about touring and what rack you intended to buy. I can see it getting quite tricky when dealing with mounts and what specifically was said. Remember that touring can mean just about anything. Unless you specifically said anything about tents you may struggle. Even then remember it might be assumed you would back pack the lot. If you specifically asked about rack mounting then that makes things easier but the elapsed time does rather count against you even if you do have a good reason.

Citizen's advice are good. But often a bit bullish.

darkhairedlord

the Evans website questions for the bike might help you as they state:


does this bike take a pannier rack?
1 answer
I'd like to tour with this bike so will need to add a pannier rack. Is this bike suitable?
1 month, 4 weeks ago
Briggs

Answers
STAFF
No - we wouldn't suggest a Carbon bike for tour's as they will not have rack mounts on the frame.
1 month, 3 weeks ago
MillzonWheelz
helpful1unhelpful1Report as inappropriate.

IMHO: good luck with that!

JesseD

As has been mentioned its will be he said she said, can you prove you told them you wanted the bike for long touring trips with lots of gear being carried?

Not saying you didn't tell them but can you prove it?

I doubt Evans would admit their mistake even if you did say it.

Good luck but don't hold your breath.

darkhairedlord

just stay in hotels and post your clothes ahead.

luv2ride

Do you absolutely need a classic pannier rack? Bikepacking seems to increasingly look like this, with frame bags, etc...
https://www.alpkit.com/bike-luggage

I'm sure I've seen a Cycling Plus article that featured the Grade doing some off road bothy excursion, in fact it came across as a bit of an infomercial (or whatever they call editorial sponsored by the goods supplier). Looks capable enough in that regard...

tangled_metal

How about a trailer?

Seat pack, bar roll thingy, frame bag (custom made?), stem bags (one each side) and top tube bags (one near head tube and one near seat tube). You just might get capacity there if travelling very light with your kit.

Otherwise it's trailer or your Janis until you have the cash for something better. BTW is the Jamis rigid fork? Can you upgrade the Jamis to lighten it up a bit. New wheels, better tyres, better brakes, etc. As someone said earlier the Jamis could be made into a better bike.

timothyw

Since you mention it in your first post, to transplant onto a new steel frameset you need by my reckoning:

New frameset - kaffenback 2 is cheap and will do the job £150 - http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/FRPXKBD2/p ... 2-frameset
New BSA (screw fit) bottom bracket - Ultegra model from wiggle etc is £14 or so
New headset to fit the kaffenback 2 - £20
Potentially new cables, outers and hydraulic brake tubes - £30 or so?
IS to post mount brake calliper adapters - £12 ish
Front wheel - the kaffenback fork takes a standard QR mount, you either need to find the right converter and a quick release skewer (£20 ish?) or get a new front wheel (£100 upwards to have something decent handbuilt). The rear wheel on the Grade uses a standard QR so will fit the Kaffenback.

So you're looking something like £300 upwards.

tangled_metal

How much for a bike shop to do the work?

I suspect the OP is like me and not confident enough to transplant parts like that. Could just be me of course.

DeVlaeminck

If I were absolutely sure the bike wasn't what I wanted and I couldn't make it work I'd sell it, take the hit and buy a second hand bike more suited to my needs.

luv2ride

DeVlaeminck wrote:

If I were absolutely sure the bike wasn't what I wanted and I couldn't make it work I'd sell it, take the hit and buy a second hand bike more suited to my needs.

I suspect there will be a few on this forum interested in a GT Grade carbon at a good price if you did end up putting it in the classifieds section. It's a well regarded machine....

On the other hand, don't Evans have a new'ish policy whereby they'll take back bikes when customers decide it's not right for them? The timeline here perhaps stretches matters a little, but the principle is there. Depends how accommodating they want to be I guess?

tangled_metal

28 days limit for the return a bike scheme IIRC. Wish I'd taken advantage of it since I knew the bike want right on a week or two.

frisbee

I don't think the consumer rights act is an excuse for very basic research and inspection of thing you are planning to buy. People have done some very long journeys with bike packing kit so I don't think it was unreasonable for the salesman to assume you would be doing that.

Did you explicitly state, even verbally, that you wanted to fit panniers?

bobmcstuff

I would have done a lot more research before I bought it - but having said that Evans is big enough they might decide the goodwill is important to them.

timothyw

Tangled Metal wrote:

How much for a bike shop to do the work?

I suspect the OP is like me and not confident enough to transplant parts like that. Could just be me of course.

My old LBS quote £150 to assemble a bike from parts which does sound a bit steep to me, you could buy tools to do the vast majority of it yourself for half that and learn a lot about how to service and repair your bike in future, which might well come in handy if you're going travelling on your bike.

Equally, if you have other bike loving friends they'd probably help you for beer money - just one of many reasons to join a cycle club...

diamonddog

bobmcstuff wrote:

I would have done a lot more research before I bought it

^^This

fenix

Seeing as you're unsure what you said and you're undure if you were mis sold then I don't see you have a case.

You can't be sure you mentioned panniers - touring doesn't necessarily mean full racks.

I think you probably didn't - the Evans guy would have been able to see that this bike didn't have the eyelets for it.

Also - you really should do more research before buying.

What distances are you riding ? Where are you going ? How much kit do you need ?

Are you planning on riding further than round the world ?

http://road.cc/content/news/59716-inter ... record-kit

stevie63

Rolf F wrote:

stevie63 wrote:

It isn't a problem, you can use p-clips to fit a rack to pretty much any bike.

I wouldn't rush to recommend P clipping a full rack set to a carbon frame for fully loaded touring.

No you're right, I hadn't noticed that it was the Carbon Grade.

the_hundredth_idiot

Next up, man tries to return six month old Porsche Boxster because the salesman didn't tell him there were no rear seats for babies and the man thinks he might have mentioned he was hoping to get his girlfriend pregnant at some point in the future.