Creakondale SuperSix Evo High-Mod HELP!!!

Mattkg89

Hi Guys,

Any advice on the creaking on bike is much appreciated.

I bought a brand new 2016 Cannondale SuperSix EVO High-Mod Dura Ace 2. At first I loved it only to fall out of love with it already.

I've had the bike about 6 weeks and only done some steady miles on it, I'm a time trailer so no need for me to ride anything over 2 hours normally. I noticed on one of my rides a horrendous creaking from the bike when going up hill and it sounded like it was coming from the BB. When I got home I put the bike in the work stand and when I turned the cranks anti clockwise a creak would sound when the crank arm was in a certain position. I took my bike to my LBS and after removing the crank it seemed Cannondale had used one to many nylon spacers against the wave washer which sits against the bearing (on the non drive side). This created to much pre load on the bearings which caused the bearing to grind the 30mm spindle and had pitted it (left a dent mark). The mechanic said he had to use wet and dry sand paper in order to get the pit out of the spindle and said it should be okay. So with the bearings on each side greased, the spindle smooth and the additional washer removed all was good.

So the creak when back pedalling disappeared..result...BUT.

Went out for another rider after the work and sure enough as soon as I pulled out of my drive way...CREAK, CREAK CREAK!!!

Now I only get this creak when out of the saddle.

Got my thinking cap on about what I can do after knowing my LBS had overhauled the BB.

So I did the following....

Tightened the cassette
Greased the pedal spindles (even though they are brand new)
Greased the headsets spacers
Greased the rear and front drop outs
Greased the skewers
Lubed the spoke nipples
Greased the spoke cross overs
Cleaned and re applied carbon paste on the seat post
Cleaned and greased the stem bolts
Cleaned and re greased stem/handle bar plate bolts and surface
I even greased the bottle cage bolts
Used vale screws to stops valves rattling

After all this, first hill, out of the saddle...creak, creak, creak...

I honestly give up. I have been in touch with Wheelies who I bought it from and I'm still waiting for a reply. In the mean time have I missed anything or has anyone else has similar problems?

The bike came with full dura ace 9000, Cannondale's own SI chainset and Mavic Kysirum elite wheels.

Thanks

webboo

Have you checked the front skewer is tight enough.

Mattkg89

Hi,

Yeah both front and rear skewers are nice and tight.

Thanks

webboo

Shoe plates ?

Mattkg89

Got brand new Shimano cleats in

imposter2.0

Mattkg89 wrote:

The mechanic said he had to use wet and dry sand paper in order to get the pit out of the spindle and said it should be okay.

Think about it - he's probably made it worse....

curium

Mattkg89 wrote:

I bought a brand new 2016 Cannondale SuperSix EVO High-Mod Dura Ace 2

I've had the bike about 6 weeks

...

CREAK, CREAK CREAK!!!

My God son! :shock:

Why didn't you put it back in the crate and return it to the retailer quoting the sale of goods act?

You've potentially made things worse by attempting a repair. Hopefully the retailer will show you goodwill or you may have to put your hand in your pocket to get it resolved.

On a separate note, is it just me or are Cannondales/BB30 renowned for their creaking bottom brackets? Hollowtech II for life yo!

trailflow

1 extra nylon washer is not going to make any difference. They are designed to compress. The bearing cover should sit against the bearing not the wavy washer. The nylon washers and wavy washer just take up the slack after the crank is tightened.

Any slight mark or pitting on the crank shaft is normal and should definitely not be sanded down! doing that could introduce more play. The mechanic is a moron :x he may have just voided your warranty on the crank say thank you next time you see him.

Did your bike come with a free service after x number of weeks ? either use that or return it on warranty as its so new.

Other options are replacing the BB30 bearings. Slapping grease on them will not make any difference if they are on there way out or the surfaces are dry.

Use plenty of grease on the surfaces when re-installing. Also grease the nylon spacers,wavy washer and bearing cover.

And check the creak isnt coming from the saddle rails,seatpost clamp and bolt, chainring bolts , and oil the chain.

and double check cleats and bolts.

sgtj115

Try using a retaining compound such as loctite 638 when replacing the bearing.
Sorted my Synapse out for me.

ayjaycee

Fiddle about too much and you might void the warranty - unless I missed it (in which case apologies!), you didn't say where you bought it but, if LBS, just take it back for them to sort out - if it wasn't from the genius who chose to sand the spindle, I would keep very quite about it when discussing warranty issues with the supplier. As others have said, you might also wish to think about rejecting the bike as not for for purpose.

However, if you do choose to sort it out for yourself, you might want to Google 'Cannondale Tech Note 127894' which has detailed instructions on the Cannondale recommended bonding process as mentioned by sgtj115 above. It all seems to be a bit of a faff to do it but it might just be necessary to solve the problem if, indeed, it is the BB making the noise. Speaking personally, i have never had any issues with my Synapse which has BB30A but I have already decided that if it does go, I will use a converter and go Ultegra chain set.

Good luck and hope this helps.

Mattkg89

Thanks for the messages.

Calling the mechanic a moron isn't very fair and you didn't see the state on the spindle, it was mullered and if he hadn't smoothed it off the bearing would not turn which was what caused it to bite into the spindle. I have read numerous forums of people having to machine polish the 30mm spindle on the Connandale SI crank.

Maybe I wasn't being very clear.

When I was riding the bike a creak appeared (whilst out of the saddle up hill) from what I thought was the bb, after inspecting it on the work stand a crack sounded, not a creak a crack when I back pedalled the crank. See the video https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B52ud ... kZ1SE5jWFE

It was a a different noise to the one heard whilst riding but I figured it must have been the problem and that's when I took it to my lbs for inspection. After the work was done the bike no longer makes the cracking sound and the crank turns a heck of a lot better before the work was done. The pic below shows the what the spindle looked like after it was removed from the bike, and no its not a line of grease.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B52ud ... UZwZWVtT2c

I cleaned the bike up after the work and that's when I greased everything listed on my previous post (the bb was re greased at my lbs). I rode 60 miles on my local club run and the bike was quiet as a mouse..not a sound.

But today a small 1 hour recovery ride and its creaking the same as it was before.

ayjaycee

Where / how did you buy it? LBS or on-line?

darkhairedlord

bent crank spindle, probably been dropped.

trailflow

a crank shaft doesn't get mullered in 6 weeks (or 100 weeks) from 1 extra nylon washer :roll:. The crank shaft is not meant to spin in the bearings. It is meant to spin WITH the bearings so the bearings do the work. The fit should/can be semi-tight and lots of grease should be uses on the crank shaft when installing. If the crank wouldn't turn then that is a problem with the bearings (possibly crooked) not the crank shaft.

If the crank was really mullered after only 6 weeks that is a warranty job. Considering the price of an aftermarket Si crank, why would you not first take that option first ? Did Cannondale recommend the mechanic try to sand it down ? i guess not.

The picture of the crank shaft looks likes a normal shaft :? All spindles look like that after some use. i see no anomoly there.

The crack sound in your video is a bearing issue. Likely one of the guide rings inside the bearing has broken. If the mechanic removed the rubber seals and inserted grease inside. That will only be a temporary fix and the sound will return.

Unless the crack sound was related to misaligned bearings. Another highly likely possibilty.

Mattkg89

I purchased the bike online so cant really just take it back, I've been in touch with the supplier with regards to the issues, talks are ongoing.

I personally haven't dropped the bike so cant say but thanks for mentioning.

From other forums I've read loctite-ing the BB30 seems to be the answer to most creaky Cannondales.

Mattkg89

trailflow wrote:

a crank shaft doesn't get mullered in 6 weeks (or 100 weeks) from 1 extra nylon washer :roll:. The crank shaft is not meant to spin in the bearings. It is meant to spin WITH the bearings so the bearings do the work. The fit should/can be semi-tight and lots of grease should be uses on the crank shaft when installing. If the crank wouldn't turn then that is a problem with the bearings (possibly crooked) not the crank shaft.

If the crank was really mullered after only 6 weeks that is a warranty job. Considering the price of an aftermarket Si crank, why would you not first take that option first ? Did Cannondale recommend the mechanic try to sand it down ? i guess not.

The picture of the crank shaft looks likes a normal shaft :? i see no anomoly there.

The crack sound in your video is a bearing issue. Likely one of the guide rings inside the bearing has broken. If the mechanic removed the rubber seals and inserted grease inside. That will only be a temporary fix and the sound will return.

Unless the crack sound was related to misaligned bearings. Another highly likely possibilty.

Thanks for your input, you seem very aggressive though, im only after friendly help or advice.

I find it interesting you think the pitting on the spindle is normal, others people I've spoken to including a friend who was a former mechanic at a respected bike shop said its not. I've only ever had Shimano cranks so cant comment.

MisterMuncher

That's almost certainly misaligned bearings, from looking at it. Does the BB spin reasonably freely? SiSL/Hollowgram spindles have always been a tight fit through the bearings, so a bit of wear/abrasion is pretty normal, but it's usually one shiny ring. The dirty, crooked line you have screams misaligned bearing. Greasing them up will work to take the noise away and free them up, but it's a band aid.

It's vital to install PF30 cups one at a time, slowly and carefully. Installing both at once is a recipe for disaster unless you're really lucky. Loctite isn't strictly necessary, but can help with tolerance stack issues on some combos.

trailflow

Aggressive ??? just trying to help and be honest mate unless you want to hear lies ? Perhaps you are abit sensitive ? You cannot be serious about the 1 extra nylon washer or are you ? because that is straight up BS.

It's impossible not to get extremely minor pitting (a mark) on the crank shaft if there is a heavy force constantly applied to it from above on each pedal rotation. Unless im mistaken and the shafts are made from diamond and not aluminium ?

MisterMuncher

The out of the saddle creak might not be the same issue as the other, though. To me, that suggests a loose/misaligned spider or possibly a cracked spacer (the big NDS one). Does it occur at the same point in the rotation each time?

Mattkg89

trailflow wrote:

Aggressive ??? just trying to help and be honest mate unless you want to hear lies ? Perhaps you are abit sensitive ? You cannot be serious about the 1 extra nylon washer or are you ? because that is straight up BS.

It's impossible not to get extremely minor pitting (a mark) on the crank shaft if there is a heavy force constantly applied to it from above on each pedal rotation. Unless im mistaken and the shafts are made from diamond and not aluminium ?

Maybe aggressive was the wrong word but a little forceful perhaps

None the less I have taken all the comments on board which I thank you for and await to find the solution.

Mattkg89

MisterMuncher wrote:

That's almost certainly misaligned bearings, from looking at it. Does the BB spin reasonably freely? SiSL/Hollowgram spindles have always been a tight fit through the bearings, so a bit of wear/abrasion is pretty normal, but it's usually one shiny ring. The dirty, crooked line you have screams misaligned bearing. Greasing them up will work to take the noise away and free them up, but it's a band aid.

Yes the spindle spins freely, I'm confident miss-aligned bearings seem to be the issue.

Thanks

It's vital to install PF30 cups one at a time, slowly and carefully. Installing both at once is a recipe for disaster unless you're really lucky. Loctite isn't strictly necessary, but can help with tolerance stack issues on some combos.

Mattkg89

MisterMuncher wrote:

That's almost certainly misaligned bearings, from looking at it. Does the BB spin reasonably freely? SiSL/Hollowgram spindles have always been a tight fit through the bearings, so a bit of wear/abrasion is pretty normal, but it's usually one shiny ring. The dirty, crooked line you have screams misaligned bearing. Greasing them up will work to take the noise away and free them up, but it's a band aid.

It's vital to install PF30 cups one at a time, slowly and carefully. Installing both at once is a recipe for disaster unless you're really lucky. Loctite isn't strictly necessary, but can help with tolerance stack issues on some combos.

Thanks for the input

vpnikolov

Check the spacers. Every time I was out of the saddle on my supersix, I had the most annoying creaking sound you could ever imagine. Changed the spacers and the creaking disappeared. If you are with the original ones, mine had cracks on them from the pressure I was putting on the handlebar (that is where the creaking was coming from).

Bobbinogs

Blimey, the OP buys £4k worth of bike online that apparently needs a local mechanic to get out some pitting after only 6 weeks is where this all went wrong. As soon as the local mechanic said that was needed I would have got him to halt all work (prior to voiding the warranty cover) and returned the bike to the supplier. Ho hum, bit late now as they are so many things that have been done that tracing the actual guilty party for the first creak may be impossible given that many other causes of a new creak have been introduced!

darkhairedlord

did you buy it with a credit card? should be covered on that.

trailflow

Other reasons for the clicking/creaking could be there were not enough spacers and the crank had side-to-side play, or the crank arm was not tightened properly, or the shaft is torsionally twisted/bent.

mugensi

I had the most annoying creak on my Felt a few years back, the BB30 bearings were removed and greased and replaced several times but it never cured the creak. In the end up it was discovered that two of the chain ring bolts were slightly loose, they were tightened and the creak disappeared.

svetty

The DA cassette spiders are made of carbon and can creak a bit - the earlier ones could also fail......

rokt

I had a Cannondale a number of years back and that developed what sounds like a very similar problem. After what seemed like months of frustration I found the problem was the peddle thread on the none drive side crank arm.

Could be worth a look !

Mattkg89

The bike is now fully operational with no noises.

The bike went back to where I bought it from and it was a faulty crank supposedly. A new one was put in as well as new BB bearings ALL COVERED UNDER WARRANTY NO PROBLEM (for the doubters).

Any way Ive ridden it several times and it's spot on.

Thanks for the comments, some good some not so good.

thatb

Mattkg89 wrote:

trailflow wrote:

Aggressive ??? just trying to help and be honest mate unless you want to hear lies ? Perhaps you are abit sensitive ? You cannot be serious about the 1 extra nylon washer or are you ? because that is straight up BS.

It's impossible not to get extremely minor pitting (a mark) on the crank shaft if there is a heavy force constantly applied to it from above on each pedal rotation. Unless im mistaken and the shafts are made from diamond and not aluminium ?

Maybe aggressive was the wrong word but a little forceful perhaps

None the less I have taken all the comments on board which I thank you for and await to find the solution.

Was this problem resolved? What did you do to fix?