Strava moving pace

chatlow

I'm sure I'm not the first the flag this up. Just finished a 46 mile ride with an average speed of 16.8mph and in 2h45m. This was using my Garmin Edge 800 with speed/cadence sensor fitted.

I have auto-pause enabled (stopped for about 2 mins, twice and stopped/started my activity 3 times (again for about 1-2 mins each time) when talking slowing down for a rolling chat with a mate.

Just uploaded to Strava and it's showing 2h52m moving time and average speed of 16.2mph. I know Strava uses a difference calculation to Garmin and their moving time doesn't take into account stopping etc, but is there any setting or feature I can use to get this a little more accurate?

Even with previous rides where I haven't stopped at all, the average speed has been 2-3mph slower according to Strava.

Other users mentioning it here:

https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/com ... t-activity

imposter2.0

Did you enjoy the ride or not?

bendertherobot

Just accept it. Or take it off Strava. In which case you didn't ride at all...............

chatlow

Superb advise. Thanks both. Was just wondering if I'd missed a setting with strava or should turn off auto pause.

Anyway, yes, the ride was lovely. :roll:

sloppyschleckonds

Strava algorithms lol

ForumNewbie

chatlow wrote:

I'm sure I'm not the first the flag this up. Just finished a 46 mile ride with an average speed of 16.8mph and in 2h45m. This was using my Garmin Edge 800 with speed/cadence sensor fitted.

I have auto-pause enabled (stopped for about 2 mins, twice and stopped/started my activity 3 times (again for about 1-2 mins each time) when talking slowing down for a rolling chat with a mate.

Just uploaded to Strava and it's showing 2h52m moving time and average speed of 16.2mph. I know Strava uses a difference calculation to Garmin and their moving time doesn't take into account stopping etc, but is there any setting or feature I can use to get this a little more accurate?

Even with previous rides where I haven't stopped at all, the average speed has been 2-3mph slower according to Strava.

Other users mentioning it here:

https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/com ... t-activity

I'm not sure I understand - are you saying that when you slow down for a chat with your mate, you manually stop the Garmin timer to try to not to include that part of your ride in your average speed?

I have a logged hundreds of rides on Strava from my Garmins and my average speeds on Strava is sometimes 0.1 or 0.2 mph slower than on shown the Garmin, but no more than that.

chatlow

^^ kind of. We were doing interval training and then decided to slow down and go off course for a minute to relax. I stopped the timer during this so it wouldn't get included in the upload to Strava.

.1-.2 mph out i can understand, but .6 seems extreme.

I've turned off auto pause off now and going to keep the timer active until the end to see if this helps

bendertherobot

Auto pause has always worked flawlessly for me. I never stop the timer manually unless I'm finishing the ride. Also, what sensor are you using for speed? GPS or the Speed sensor? Or both?

And this is one ride, what do all your other rides look like?

ForumNewbie

chatlow wrote:

^^ kind of. We were doing interval training and then decided to slow down and go off course for a minute to relax. I stopped the timer during this so it wouldn't get included in the upload to Strava.

.1-.2 mph out i can understand, but .6 seems extreme.

I've turned off auto pause off now and going to keep the timer active until the end to see if this helps

When I stop at a café I switch off the timer. Occasionally I have forgot to switch it back on when I set-off again, and realise a mile or so down the road, and then switch the timer on again. When I download the ride at home Strava links up the bit I have missed, i.e. the direct distance, and the time I was moving, from where I stopped to where I have restarted the timer.

I therefore think in your ride Strava is adding on the bit (the mileage and the extra 7 minutes), when you were moving but have the timer switched off. As you are not riding fast during that period, that will be bringing down your average speed.

Anonymous

Is your Garmin set to 1 Second or Smart recording? If you have it set to 1 second it is not as accurate without a speed magnet telling it your wheel speed. This can make you think you went faster and Strava is more likely to be right over the Garmin.

chatlow

thanks all. So I have the wheel magnet and cadence sensor setup on the bike. I also have it set to smart recording too.

Auto-pause was enabled, but has been disabled until i test out another upload.

The start/stop won't be used at all now, unless I stop for a good amount of time and away from the course.

Agree with previous comment that Strava is seeing a 10 minute stop and including as moving time.

rolf_f

chatlow wrote:

^^ kind of. We were doing interval training and then decided to slow down and go off course for a minute to relax. I stopped the timer during this so it wouldn't get included in the upload to Strava.

That's annoying - you try to fiddle your stats and it doesn't work!

Lossie Loon

For me, the Garmin and Strava usually match up exactly - I have autopause set for 0mph in both cases - unless I have a lot of short pauses at junctions. In that case the autopause seems to be more sensitive on the Garmin, resulting in perhaps a 0.1mph drop on the Strava average speed.

chatlow

Lossie Loon wrote:

For me, the Garmin and Strava usually match up exactly - I have autopause set for 0mph in both cases - unless I have a lot of short pauses at junctions. In that case the autopause seems to be more sensitive on the Garmin, resulting in perhaps a 0.1mph drop on the Strava average speed.

Hmm, I may enable auto pause again as stopping at lights or for traffic may skew results. The only issue is that Garmin sometimes reports that I am going 0.1 - 0.3 mph when stopped. I guess when magnet isn't sending data it used GPS and it's a little off.

May be best to to enable auto-pause at 0.3 so anything less than 0.3 pauses it

bendertherobot

My auto pause is set to whatever it defaults to. I stop, it stops. I go, it goes. I've never had my Garmin read that I was moving when stopped. Now, as you slow down and stop it does take a second or to to stop. But it does.

itboffin

Garmin readings in the city, London that is are totally useless I'm not sure if it's the buildings or something else but they're way off

chatlow

bendertherobot wrote:

My auto pause is set to whatever it defaults to. I stop, it stops. I go, it goes. I've never had my Garmin read that I was moving when stopped. Now, as you slow down and stop it does take a second or to to stop. But it does.

Bizarre, my 800 always reports I am cycling between .1 and .3 mph when stopped, never see it stay at 0.

Initially had it enabled to pause when stopped but as the speed is a bit flakey even when stopped, i guess it's still recording movement.

bendertherobot

If it's reading 0.3 mph it isn't paused. It beeps when it auto pauses and the pause symbol (Iike on a DVD player) comes up.

grenw

Maglia Rosa wrote:

Is your Garmin set to 1 Second or Smart recording? If you have it set to 1 second it is not as accurate without a speed magnet telling it your wheel speed. This can make you think you went faster and Strava is more likely to be right over the Garmin.

Smart recording is worse. It will only add a data point when you change direction (or something like that). It's the one main reason why I upgraded from an Edge 200 to a 510. The 200 was useless for mountain biking as it would cut corners on trails and add/remove from the beginning and end of Strava segments.

I've mine set to 1 second and it always pretty much matches. Sometimes the average speed is rounded up or down by 0.1mph but that's about it.

My 510 also seems to be more accurate and better at auto pausing than my wife's 810. I put it down to the more accurate gps and the Glonass satellites. I may be wrong though...

darkhairedlord

Just the garmin to auto-pause below 20mph, that will get the average up.

Anonymous

GrenW wrote:

Maglia Rosa wrote:

Is your Garmin set to 1 Second or Smart recording? If you have it set to 1 second it is not as accurate without a speed magnet telling it your wheel speed. This can make you think you went faster and Strava is more likely to be right over the Garmin.

Smart recording is worse. It will only add a data point when you change direction (or something like that). It's the one main reason why I upgraded from an Edge 200 to a 510. The 200 was useless for mountain biking as it would cut corners on trails and add/remove from the beginning and end of Strava segments.

I've mine set to 1 second and it always pretty much matches. Sometimes the average speed is rounded up or down by 0.1mph but that's about it.

My 510 also seems to be more accurate and better at auto pausing than my wife's 810. I put it down to the more accurate gps and the Glonass satellites. I may be wrong though...

The Smart is more accurate than the one second. I will tell you why. The 1 second does exactly that it records every second where it is and calculates from where it was the prev second etc. But, if you get a line of sight between the head unit and the satellite break - this can be from trees, buildings, electromagnetic interference it can only make a best guess of where it was in that previous second. If you are travelling at a regular speed and a straight route it is pretty easy for the unit to 'guess' if it needs to. If you stopped or slowed in that time where you had a reduction in signal it can throw errors up more. The best way to keep it accurate is by using a wheel magnet or speed sensor as this will not so much override but help keep the head unit know the speed.

With smart it takes polls from all the satellites at irregular intervals from each other depending on their signal quality - generally between 3 to 5 are used regardless of how many it can see. If it sees 10 it will still use no more than the best 5. It can swap onto a different satellite for accuracy but it will make errors in that swap over between the 2. GLONASS will make it locking onto a signal quicker but being in Northern Europe it offers nothing extra. We are not in a part of the world that struggles for gps signal. The closer to the poles it may as all the gps sats are over the equator.

Anyway. Back to the Garmin, generally on a route with little obstruction from a clear signal 'trees, buildings etc' you will get a more accurate reading with smart. 1 second is heavily dependent on a speed magnet to smooth out its errors. As you mentioned a smart only recording on a change of direction this is parttrue and would still be more accurate as if you swap direction inbetween second polls on the 1 sec mode you are not going to see the same accuracy in say a twisting route. At speed this couldbe quite a lot over the space of a minute at say 40km it will be thrown well out. It may know the speed and where it was every second but in between them seconds it hasnt got a clue. So you get very jerky measuring for speed direction and also anything from power heart rate elevation or anyyhing else missed in between seconds

chatlow

bendertherobot wrote:

If it's reading 0.3 mph it isn't paused. It beeps when it auto pauses and the pause symbol (Iike on a DVD player) comes up.

Just tested. I've got auto pause to kick in at 0mph and I get the message on screen. Then I can see the speed fluctuate between 0.0-0.3mph when stopped. However it stays paused, auto resume kicks in again soon as I start again.

bendertherobot

It sounds a bit broken to me.

chatlow

bendertherobot wrote:

It sounds a bit broken to me.

Thought the same when I first had the 800 but folks just said that when the unit doesn't detect the magnet anymore, it switches over to GPS to get the speed. And with GPS it's not perfect to anything up .4mph when stops is likely.

bendertherobot

I've never ever had the unit measure speed when it's paused. I've had it drop signals occasionally but it sorts that out with maths when it re-acquires after a few seconds. I had it do one weird anomoly once and never again. But auto pause on mine is rock solid. I'm not sure what you mean by not perfect. If you're constantly doing speeds of up to 0.4mph then, frankly, high average speed is going to become irrelevant.

So, yesterday, took me 10 minutes to negotiate town. Lots of traffic lights and auto pause. Poor average speed and, no doubt, seconds at each stop when the auto pause has to kick in. But in terms of the 40 miler I did largely irrelevant.

chatlow

bendertherobot wrote:

I've never ever had the unit measure speed when it's paused. I've had it drop signals occasionally but it sorts that out with maths when it re-acquires after a few seconds. I had it do one weird anomoly once and never again. But auto pause on mine is rock solid. I'm not sure what you mean by not perfect. If you're constantly doing speeds of up to 0.4mph then, frankly, high average speed is going to become irrelevant.

So, yesterday, took me 10 minutes to negotiate town. Lots of traffic lights and auto pause. Poor average speed and, no doubt, seconds at each stop when the auto pause has to kick in. But in terms of the 40 miler I did largely irrelevant.

By not perfect I mean that GPS is flakey and not as accurate as using the magnet. See link

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic ... stationary

I know that GPS takes over if it doesn't detect the wheel magnet so I am wondering if it does the same thing when stationary too.

okgo

Honestly, who cares?

Personally I use 1 second, took autostop off, and then what it will be is what it will be. Strava takes out the stationary stuff automatically, so generally its always 0.2/0.3 higher than whatever is on the garmin.

I can tell you that nobody will think any more or less of you for averaging 16.2 vs 16.8.

chatlow

okgo wrote:

Honestly, who cares?

Personally I use 1 second, took autostop off, and then what it will be is what it will be. Strava takes out the stationary stuff automatically, so generally its always 0.2/0.3 higher than whatever is on the garmin.

I can tell you that nobody will think any more or less of you for averaging 16.2 vs 16.8.

I really couldn't give 2 sh1ts about what people are thinking, this is something that a lot of people have talked about so, like others, I wanted to check how my settings look.

I brought up the stationary issue as thought it might be a bug with the 800.

As for the avg speed, I am more interested in the moving time being completely off as this is important for training and it's just interesting to know how these figures are calculated.

Why waste your time replying if you're not at all interested, I don't get that :?:

bendertherobot

Ok. Next time you're out, if it allays your concerns. Take the Garmin, use it for distance. Take a stopwatch and pause when you stop etc. Then check them to see how far out they are.

Another way is to stop the 800 linking to Strava temporarily and use Strava on your phone.

Have a bit of a play and see how much of a real issue there is.

Remember that, for training, if all your rides are buggy then there is a constant and gains/losses are still identifiable.

chatlow

that's actually a good plan. Will try Strava on the phone and check the results against the 800.

Unless anyone has any input on 800 settings then I'm happy to finish the thread here as I can see more and more who gives a crap comments likely to come in

ddraver

bendertherobot wrote:

I've never ever had the unit measure speed when it's paused.

I ve never seen my Garmin measure 0.0 when stopped (on GPS)

I have auto stop set at 1kph (I think) to combat this