Ultegra Chain and cassette replacement
kingrollo
Posts: 3,198
I have a 2009 Kuota Kharma - my last few years have been blighted by injury - but finally I seem to be getting there 50 miles now without any problems (apart from lack of speed !!!)
Any my cycle computer is showing Ive done 6000 miles on the original chain and cassette - a friend who is a bit more of the mechanical side than I reckons I should replace chain and casssette - shifting is mostly fine though
Any way would the combo below from CRC be compatible ? / good ?
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shim ... prod126504
Any my cycle computer is showing Ive done 6000 miles on the original chain and cassette - a friend who is a bit more of the mechanical side than I reckons I should replace chain and casssette - shifting is mostly fine though
Any way would the combo below from CRC be compatible ? / good ?
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shim ... prod126504
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Comments
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Assuming you already have a Shimano 10 speed chain/cassette fitted, then replacing it with another Shimano 10 speed chain/cassette would certainly be the logical thing to do. 105 or Tiagra will work just as well though.
At least measure the chain before you buy though. Just because someone 'thinks' it might be due for a change, doesn't necessarily mean it is.0 -
One of these or similar should assist if you don't already have one
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/x-to ... -prod102190 -
I'd agree with your mate. After 6000 miles it's likely both chain and cassette are toast. But morbid curiosity would compel me to stick a chain wear checker on it anyway just to see.
+1 to the 10 speed Shimano suggestions above. The Ultegra package you've already found, 105 for a slight cost saving, or Tiagra if you want the cheapest solution and a few grams heavier. I personally prefer KMC chains because they come with a quick link, but if you only take it off every 6000 miles that's probably not an issue for you...
The 10 speed Ultegra and 105 need (and should come with) a 10 speed spacer which goes on before the cassette. The Tiagra has it built in.0 -
thanks guys....
Ive ordered one of those tools and will take it from there !0 -
keef66 wrote:I'd agree with your mate. After 6000 miles it's likely both chain and cassette are toast. But morbid curiosity would compel me to stick a chain wear checker on it anyway just to see.
Defiantly time for a change, if you leave it too long you will end up needing new chainrings too.
Believe me, I speak from experience.0 -
Your friend is giving you good advice, do as he says.
Ask on here and you will get a lot of naysayer answers lol.
You should add a chain wear checker to your Ultegra chain and cassette order, but only so you can check your new chain one day and replace it promply before it buggers the new cassette!
Tiagra/105 are not as good as Ultegra (Tiagra more so obviously) and the price difference between 105 and Ultegra can be negligable (£6).
If you get a 105 cassette (maybe due to ratio preference) then I would still maybe get an Ultegra chain.
If you get Tiagra, add plenty of wet lube to the order 0 -
Carbonator wrote:
Tiagra/105 are not as good as Ultegra (Tiagra more so obviously) and the price difference between 105 and Ultegra can be negligable (£6).
If you can explain to me why Tiagra chains are 'not as good' as Ultegra chains, I'll start buying Ultegra chains instead.0 -
Imposter wrote:Carbonator wrote:
Tiagra/105 are not as good as Ultegra (Tiagra more so obviously) and the price difference between 105 and Ultegra can be negligable (£6).
If you can explain to me why Tiagra chains are 'not as good' as Ultegra chains, I'll start buying Ultegra chains instead.
I would rather you kept buying Tiagra ones 0 -
kingrollo wrote:thanks guys....
Ive ordered one of those tools and will take it from there !
Let us know what you find when you get it. 8)
I am not sure how much people think your chain is going to have stretched after 6000 miles, but if its less than .75mm then I will eat my cap.0 -
Didn't a German magazine test a load of chains and the 105 outlasted the lot?0
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I'd try a new chain if needed and see how it goes on the cassette. You might need a new one or you might get away with it.0
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darkhairedlord wrote:Didn't a German magazine test a load of chains and the 105 outlasted the lot?
Thats good if its endurance you are after, but if its shifting then I would spend the extra few quid.
The placebo effect alone must be worth the extra £6 to try the Ultegra chain/cassette IMO.
105 is fine though.
As above, you could just change the chain.
Or how about consider a different ratio cassette if you do get both, and keep the old cassette for use another time (if its not roasted).0 -
Carbonator wrote:Imposter wrote:Carbonator wrote:
Tiagra/105 are not as good as Ultegra (Tiagra more so obviously) and the price difference between 105 and Ultegra can be negligable (£6).
If you can explain to me why Tiagra chains are 'not as good' as Ultegra chains, I'll start buying Ultegra chains instead.
I would rather you kept buying Tiagra ones
So you can't explain it then. That's good to know.0 -
Imposter wrote:Carbonator wrote:Imposter wrote:Carbonator wrote:
Tiagra/105 are not as good as Ultegra (Tiagra more so obviously) and the price difference between 105 and Ultegra can be negligable (£6).
If you can explain to me why Tiagra chains are 'not as good' as Ultegra chains, I'll start buying Ultegra chains instead.
I would rather you kept buying Tiagra ones
So you can't explain it then. That's good to know.
Why that would be good for you to know is very odd, but whatever makes you happy.
I am happier knowing you will never go past Tiagra, which is also a lot less odd
When I go out on my 11 speed full DA bike with direct mount brakes tomorrow it will feel awsome.
So much better than my 10 speed 105 one.
I cannot explain why, I don't need to, it just is :P0 -
Carbonator wrote:Why that would be good for you to know is very odd, but whatever makes you happy.
I am happier knowing you will never go past Tiagra, but thats not as odd
It's just that you said that 105 and Ultegra were 'better' - and when I asked you to explain why, you couldn't. I've been using cheap chains on my race bikes for years. Personally, I think you must be the mug for paying more - but on the upside, your shiny, gold-plated chains must look very impressive to the uneducated. I'll stick with what works, and what costs me the least.0 -
Imposter wrote:Carbonator wrote:Why that would be good for you to know is very odd, but whatever makes you happy.
I am happier knowing you will never go past Tiagra, but thats not as odd
It's just that you said that 105 and Ultegra were 'better' - and when I asked you to explain why, you couldn't. I've been using cheap chains on my race bikes for years. Personally, I think you must be the mug for paying more - but on the upside, your shiny, gold-plated chains must look very impressive to the uneducated. I'll stick with what works, and what costs me the least.
Its more 'wouldn't' than 'couldn't' 8)
So I am a mug for spending a few quid extra on a chain every now and then? Really?
Wow, you must be really poor and jealous to insult someone so harshly for such a small expenditure, on something they get enjoyment from and prefer.
So do you think 105, Ultegra and DA are exactly the same, or worse?
A sh1tty sh1t chain would 'work'. Why have you blown the bank on a Tiagra one?
Whats 'Gold plated'?
Who is trying to impress anybody?
Why do you assume people are?0 -
Carbonator wrote:Imposter wrote:Carbonator wrote:Why that would be good for you to know is very odd, but whatever makes you happy.
I am happier knowing you will never go past Tiagra, but thats not as odd
It's just that you said that 105 and Ultegra were 'better' - and when I asked you to explain why, you couldn't. I've been using cheap chains on my race bikes for years. Personally, I think you must be the mug for paying more - but on the upside, your shiny, gold-plated chains must look very impressive to the uneducated. I'll stick with what works, and what costs me the least.
Its more 'wouldn't' than 'couldn't' 8)
So I am a mug for spending a few quid extra on a chain every now and then? Really?
Wow, you must be really poor and jealous to insult someone so harshly for such a small expenditure, on something they get enjoyment from and prefer.
Whats 'Gold plated'?
Mate - you're starting to look a bit silly. I simply asked you to explain your statement that 105 and Ultegra chains were 'better' than Tiagra. If you don't know (and it sounds like you don't) just say "I don't know" and we can leave it at that. If not for my benefit, then answer it for someone else, who may be about to press the button on a Tiagra chain and is looking for a reason to upgrade. So just take a deep breath and give us your knowledge, which you clearly have, and which clearly needs to be shared with the forum.
As for your 'sh1tty' chain comment - point me to a cheaper 10sp option than Tiagra (I'm sure there are some) and I'll consider it.0 -
Imposter wrote:Carbonator wrote:Imposter wrote:Carbonator wrote:Why that would be good for you to know is very odd, but whatever makes you happy.
I am happier knowing you will never go past Tiagra, but thats not as odd
It's just that you said that 105 and Ultegra were 'better' - and when I asked you to explain why, you couldn't. I've been using cheap chains on my race bikes for years. Personally, I think you must be the mug for paying more - but on the upside, your shiny, gold-plated chains must look very impressive to the uneducated. I'll stick with what works, and what costs me the least.
Its more 'wouldn't' than 'couldn't' 8)
So I am a mug for spending a few quid extra on a chain every now and then? Really?
Wow, you must be really poor and jealous to insult someone so harshly for such a small expenditure, on something they get enjoyment from and prefer.
Whats 'Gold plated'?
Mate - you're starting to look a bit silly. I simply asked you to explain your statement that 105 and Ultegra chains were 'better' than Tiagra. If you don't know (and it sounds like you don't) just say "I don't know" and we can leave it at that. If not for my benefit, then answer it for someone else, who may be about to press the button on a Tiagra chain and is looking for a reason to upgrade. So just take a deep breath and give us your knowledge, which you clearly have, and which clearly needs to be shared with the forum.
As for your 'sh1tty' chain comment - point me to a cheaper 10sp option than Tiagra (I'm sure there are some) and I'll consider it.
I think its you that looks silly.
Always asking people too 'prove' stuff lol.
How would you like this 'explanation' exactly?
Will a simple 'it feels better' do? No, did not think so.
My experience of bike products and things in life generally is that you generally get what you pay for.
You may think that Shimano make three higher tiers of chain that are no better than Tiagra, but I do not.
I know my DA bikes feel way better than my 105 ones.
Maybe its everything but the chain that is different, but I doubt that (and have absolutely no reason or desire to prove this beyond just a hunch ).
How much better I could not say, but they are better.
I think your insistence that they are no better at all, and this obsession with hounding people to prove stuff will guide a prospective buyer best in whose advice to take (not that I care 8) )
The difference in cost between chains is so small that I do not think 'looking for a reason to upgrade' even comes into it lol
Just try it and make your own mind up FFS.
Let us know what you do and how you get on OP0 -
Carbonator wrote:Always asking people too 'prove' stuff lol.
Yeah, that must be really annoying. Saying something and then not being able to support it when someone calls you out. Anyway, I'll not embarrass you further...0 -
A few years ago I read a German magazine that the tested a load of chains and the outcome, broadly, was you got what you paid for. DA longer-lasting and lighter than Ultegra which was better than 105 and Tiagra (broadly the same with KMC - though the odd anomaly). That would remain in line with other Shimano components where it's easier to see the difference in quality (again, the odd anomaly like poor DA cassette reliability) - line up RDs or even RD parts and I think you could put them in order by quality & weight.
Whether the extra quality of the pricier chains represents better value, that's hard to say. I work on the basis that, if the chain wears more slowly, it's likely to wear the cassette and chain rings less quickly. The price difference between chains is relatively small if bought carefully.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
Imposter wrote:Carbonator wrote:Always asking people too 'prove' stuff lol.
Yeah, that must be really annoying. Saying something and then not being able to support it when someone calls you out. Anyway, I'll not embarrass you further...
Its not annoying, its funny, and I am not at all embarrassed in the first place 8)
I have no need to prove anything to anyone, and as I said, much prefer people like you riding around on inferior stuff like old Tiagra and MTB pedals/shoes thinking (and raging) that they are exactly as good.
I get the feeling that no one can give you the proof you require anyway.0 -
If you look at the range of KMC chains for example, at the cheapest end they start off a functional grey colour, with solid side plates and pins. Then they get shiny outer plates with some kind of surface treatment. Then the inner plates too are shiny. Then the outer plates are slotted, then the inner ones too, and finally the pins are hollow too. And then for good measure they introduce a special 'diamond like coating' which is very shiny but also very expensive.
I'm sure they all work the same. The slotted plates / hollow pins will save a few grams, but possibly at the expense of fatigue life.
I don't do so many miles that I'm changing chains very often, so I generally go for a chain with shiny outer plates because I prefer the look and find them easier to keep clean / rust free. In fact the last one also has slotted side plates but I admit I chose that because of how it looks, not for the weight saving or any nebulous claim that it's somehow better than a cheaper one...0 -
Carbonator wrote:much prefer people like you riding around on inferior stuff like old Tiagra and MTB pedals/shoes thinking (and raging) that they are exactly as good.
'People like me' tend to look on 'people like you' with a certain level of sympathy, that's true. You are usually the ones walking up the hills, or getting dropped on the first lap of a crit... 0 -
keef66 wrote:If you look at the range of KMC chains for example, at the cheapest end they start off a functional grey colour, with solid side plates and pins. Then they get shiny outer plates with some kind of surface treatment. Then the inner plates too are shiny. Then the outer plates are slotted, then the inner ones too, and finally the pins are hollow too. And then for good measure they introduce a special 'diamond like coating' which is very shiny but also very expensive.
I'm sure they all work the same. The slotted plates / hollow pins will save a few grams, but possibly at the expense of fatigue life.
This is exactly my point. The chains are all made to the same dimensional and functional specs in any case.0 -
Imposter wrote:Carbonator wrote:much prefer people like you riding around on inferior stuff like old Tiagra and MTB pedals/shoes thinking (and raging) that they are exactly as good.
'People like me' tend to look on 'people like you' with a certain level of sympathy, that's true. You are usually the ones walking up the hills, or getting dropped on the first lap of a crit...
A tiagra 4601 chain is £14 from Merlin and a ultegra 6701 is 15 or 14 if you buy 3 or more, its hardly worth getting wound up about is it?
the 6701 comes out as the most durable in these tests, so for a £1 or so, you get a better finished product that might last a bit longer.
When i tell my daughter not to take any notice of the bitching that goes on at school and that these kids will grow out of it, i then read this thread and realise i m wrong 0 -
Amazing how such a seemingly banal thread can erupt!
My view is this...
My best bike is full Ultegra. I'm quite sure that if you swapped my chain or cassette for a 105 or Tiagra I'd find it difficult to tell the difference in a blind test (if such a thing were possible). I'd certainly never notice the minimal weight difference.
On the other hand, we can probably all agree that the top end groupsets do work a bit better/more smoothly than the lower end ones assuming they are all set up correctly. We can probably assume that all the individual parts are that bit better and the sum total is a noticeable difference.
When I come to replace my chain and cassette I'll probably stick with Ultegra as my existing setup works so well and I don't really like the thought of "downgrading" the bike, however minimally it might be. If I was on a tight budget however then I'm sure that 105/Tiagra would be fine.0 -
mamba80 wrote:A tiagra 4601 chain is £14 from Merlin and a ultegra 6701 is 15 or 14 if you buy 3 or more, its hardly worth getting wound up about is it?
the 6701 comes out as the most durable in these tests, so for a £1 or so, you get a better finished product that might last a bit longer.
When i tell my daughter not to take any notice of the bitching that goes on at school and that these kids will grow out of it, i then read this thread and realise i m wrong
Exactly. If only Carbonator could have backed up his statements with a viable explanation of why Tiagra chains were 'not as good', all this could have been avoided. Another lesson for your daughter there, I think...0 -
Sometimes you do get what you pay for. A few years ago when 10 speed was new, and chains relatively expensive, CRC I think were selling off some 10 speed Mavic chains so I bought a couple. They must've been marginally wider than the Shimano 105 chain I'd been using. They never ran quietly; it always sounded like the indexing was out. They also wore out very quickly, and rusted too readily.
Lesson learned. Shimano or KMC since then0 -
Imposter wrote:Carbonator wrote:much prefer people like you riding around on inferior stuff like old Tiagra and MTB pedals/shoes thinking (and raging) that they are exactly as good.
'People like me' tend to look on 'people like you' with a certain level of sympathy, that's true. You are usually the ones walking up the hills, or getting dropped on the first lap of a crit...
Why do you think I walk up hills etc?
Your jealousy is very sad.
Having better kit is nothing to do with your physical achievements versus others.
It is only for your own benefit.0 -
Imposter wrote:mamba80 wrote:A tiagra 4601 chain is £14 from Merlin and a ultegra 6701 is 15 or 14 if you buy 3 or more, its hardly worth getting wound up about is it?
the 6701 comes out as the most durable in these tests, so for a £1 or so, you get a better finished product that might last a bit longer.
When i tell my daughter not to take any notice of the bitching that goes on at school and that these kids will grow out of it, i then read this thread and realise i m wrong
Exactly. If only Carbonator could have backed up his statements with a viable explanation of why Tiagra chains were 'not as good', all this could have been avoided. Another lesson for your daughter there, I think...
What do you mean 'Exactly' 0
