strava fitness and fatigue and form readings

rouleur23

Hi

I can't say that the Strava system is probably spot on but it must be an indicator of the ''overall'' situation for guys like me that can't afford a coach and are new to ''training'' the body as best they can but.....how does one read it and understand it?

I assume that a high score in fitness is good and a high score in fatigue is bad. My fitness score is 42 right now and fatigue just above at 44. Form at -3 (minus 3). But I need to understand them as I do not want to over train or under train.

Looking back at last month I had a reading of fitness 41, fatigue 66 and form minus 25. I am 53 yrs of age and cycled all my life. Resting HR of 42 and max of 173. But I know I need to get to grips with staying on top of ''readings'' and ''indicators'' no matter how basic they are.

I guess to get fatigue down but keep fitness I ride at lower intensities for a week? Sort of recovery time?

Thanks

Paz

imposter2.0

I would ignore it, tbh. Most of it is guesswork anyway...

maryka

With a form and fitness that low, I'd just rest when you feel tired (or have an easy riding day) and ride harder when you're up to riding.

Form and fitness in Strava and elsewhere depends greatly on having accurate numbers seeding it in the first place, and accurate threshold power estimates. Generally with a powermeter, form/fitness is measured by training stress, where e.g., 60 is equal to 60 TSS points/day. That's basically an hour at 80% effort, so not very much. It means you're fit enough to ride that every day (but not more than that).

However if you don't have a powermeter, all bets are off. Does Strava do it by HR then, and if so, do you have your threshold HR and other zones dialled in? If not, the charts are useless really.

Imo they are pretty useless anyway as they aren't historical. That means if you start in January unfit and then gain lots of fitness and change your threshold power/HR zones accordingly, the data will be skewed as it only uses one set of zones to calculate everything. Ideally when you're using this kind of PMC (performance manager chart) you want to be able to change your numbers as you improve, but still keep the history of the old numbers. Strava is too simplistic to do that.

Google PMC, TSS and form/fitness to read all about it...

iPete

I find it really useful, for what it is. For when I want to pour over data I can use GoldenCheetah but this is a great summary.

I've been pushing mine up for the last 12 weeks from a low of 53/37 to 71/59 today. It's really handy for making sure I'm going easy enough on rest days and planning my week around my commute. If you hover your mouse in the future, you can see how quickly you are recovering. In simplest terms I go hard when fatigue is low and then go easy to bring it down.

The numbers are going up and my peers are noticing, so it's proving a handy tool. This all assumes you have good data going in.

rouleur23

Thanks for replies. Now I see ipete and his fitness numbers of 53 up to 71. I see now that mine are low as Maryka says. But then something can't be adding up.
I am having good results in 4th cat races (best place 3rd but first time racing since 2010) and can hammer out a 2 hr ride (alone) at 85-91% of HR max and not be tired after. I know that my FTP is about 154 beats or 89% of max. I have tested twice this year on a turbo and the FTP has moved 2 points since March.
41 does look low noe I have seen another persons numbers. I need to figure out why then see about steadily raising it thru summer. ipetes strategy is a good one. Thanks

maryka

How much are you actually riding? How many hours/intensity/miles in a typical week? Consistently or not?

iPete

Out of curiosity, how many hours are you riding a week? The numbers are probably meaningless except to an individual. Although I would love to see what a pros chart looks like based on the Strava algorithm.

I'd advise setting your training up around the goal, if it is to get upto cat 3, then look at the circuits you are racing. My training week is rather simple but it works for me. At least 1 interval session, 1 longer ride, a few rides at sweet spot and make sure I recover in-between and work that into 5 days a week commuting.

It's a relatively big expenditure but you'd likely benefit from a powermeter.

rouleur23

Hi

I have been ramping it up and last week was a big week at 400km (16 hrs ish over 6 rides) and this week is recovery (2 days off completely) with some spinning and s few 1 minute sprint sessions as from today. Saturday is a big and hilly sportive in C France so sort of tapering I guess to be fresh for that.
I tend to ride at 80-83% (avge) of max on most rides (90 to 120 mins) and teeter on the FTP for 30-60 mins during these rides or a bit less on longer rides of no more than 3.5hrs.
A typical week is around 250km or 9-10hrs. 4 or 5 rides. I am big at 6'2 and 94kg (down from 105kg since jan) but there is little fat on me if you looked at me. But still perhaps it could up around 15-17%? I work in the building trade and plaster etc which keeps muscle mass up higher than I would like. Nothing I can do there. I got up Ventoux in 1hr 52m in early May and never expected to break the 2hrs so was very happy with that at this weight. I would say 90kg has to be the min' weight target as I tend to look unwell any lighter. (and my clobber won't fit)
I was in cat 3 but asked to drop as I am not yet as sharp as I was in 2010 when I last raced. And I was dropped in the early races (hilly here) as my weight was/is too high for my ability/VO2/cardio etc. My present form is good IMO but room to get better.
I'm not bothered by a low fitness number as it can't be a true representation of where I am now but I will use the fatigue numbers to scale back when high as does ipete.
I have looked at the stages crank for a power readout and buttering up my other half. That can take longer than getting into race shape!
P

sloppyschleckonds

Fitness 86
Fatigue 133

Means nothing

joe2008

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Fitness 86
Fatigue 133

Means nothing

Means you would benefit from rest

jgsi

Number crunch all you want and I have... 5 years data on Golden Cheetah... TSB ATL CTL in the end dont mean that much in terms of performance goals. I only race and I have had bad days feeling good and good days feeling bad.
Personally, the older one gets, I'm over 60,the numbers just dont match up as they are a catch all for all ages - Strava Training Peaks Golden Cheetah - no redress is given that I can train effectively but I cannot train like I was a 20 year old.
It is almost impossible for me to build the so called negative stress without going on a 5 day training camp and doing 5 hours per day with its generous TSS....
I know I'm fit , I did a threshold test last night which gave me a FTP of 305 ... also meaningless in the light that I get mullered in races 99% of the time... age related my sunshines , so I am comparing apples with apples.
My advice is to print your form factors and stick them on the fridge like the kids drawings they more or less are.

joe2008

JGSI wrote:

Number crunch all you want and I have... 5 years data on Golden Cheetah... TSB ATL CTL in the end dont mean that much in terms of performance goals. I only race and I have had bad days feeling good and good days feeling bad.
Personally, the older one gets, I'm over 60,the numbers just dont match up as they are a catch all for all ages - Strava Training Peaks Golden Cheetah - no redress is given that I can train effectively but I cannot train like I was a 20 year old.
It is almost impossible for me to build the so called negative stress without going on a 5 day training camp and doing 5 hours per day with its generous TSS....
I know I'm fit , I did a threshold test last night which gave me a FTP of 305 ... also meaningless in the light that I get mullered in races 99% of the time... age related my sunshines , so I am comparing apples with apples.
My advice is to print your form factors and stick them on the fridge like the kids drawings they more or less are.

Thanks, you made an old man feel young (at 51) I hope to have your fitness and enthusiasm when I'm 60+

imposter2.0

joe2008 wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Fitness 86
Fatigue 133

Means nothing

Means you would benefit from rest

If the figures could be relied upon...

maryka

rouleur23 wrote:

Hi

I have been ramping it up and last week was a big week at 400km (16 hrs ish over 6 rides) and this week is recovery (2 days off completely) with some spinning and s few 1 minute sprint sessions as from today. Saturday is a big and hilly sportive in C France so sort of tapering I guess to be fresh for that.
I tend to ride at 80-83% (avge) of max on most rides (90 to 120 mins) and teeter on the FTP for 30-60 mins during these rides or a bit less on longer rides of no more than 3.5hrs.
A typical week is around 250km or 9-10hrs. 4 or 5 rides. I am big at 6'2 and 94kg (down from 105kg since jan) but there is little fat on me if you looked at me. But still perhaps it could up around 15-17%? I work in the building trade and plaster etc which keeps muscle mass up higher than I would like. Nothing I can do there. I got up Ventoux in 1hr 52m in early May and never expected to break the 2hrs so was very happy with that at this weight. I would say 90kg has to be the min' weight target as I tend to look unwell any lighter. (and my clobber won't fit)
I was in cat 3 but asked to drop as I am not yet as sharp as I was in 2010 when I last raced. And I was dropped in the early races (hilly here) as my weight was/is too high for my ability/VO2/cardio etc. My present form is good IMO but room to get better.
I'm not bothered by a low fitness number as it can't be a true representation of where I am now but I will use the fatigue numbers to scale back when high as does ipete.
I have looked at the stages crank for a power readout and buttering up my other half. That can take longer than getting into race shape!
P

Tbh it would seem to me that you're doing the old "hard rides too easy, easy rides too hard" thing in your training, which can lead to fatigue and plateauing and staleness.

I rarely ride at 80% avg threshold HR or power, I'm either riding well above or well below. A diet of mostly tempo rides makes you good at, well, tempo, but not much else. Fine if your targets are 50-100 mile TTs, not so great for RRing.

So I'd mix it up a bit more if I were you, doing intervals in z4/5 and more easy rides (genuinely easy) or both in the same ride if you've got 3-4hrs to do it.

Anyway if you're keen to know more about the numbers, get a powermeter and focus your training and performance by that. Personally I find HR too variable to put out any decent numbers apart from telling me what I already know (I'm tired, I'm rested, I'm about to get ill, etc.) HR zones don't tend to tell me much about how much form I have and they certainly aren't reliable enough vs the powermeter to dictate my training.

jgsi

Personally, I'd look into getting your GP to prescribe some decent drugs... many do so .. especially when of an age... and if your GP prescribes them, gotta be legal aint it?

ozzzyosborn206

I find it fairly useful, there is a definite correlation between going well and fitness being higher on that chart, form also helps too, but you have to manage the amount your fitness drops aswel as fatigue, i go better with high fitness and fatigue than low fitness but high 'form'. Mine is done from my power meter though with 3 years of data behind it

bobmcstuff

The Strava "algorithm" is really basic, I replicated it in a spreadsheet in about 5 minutes. It's just a couple of formulas which average your TSS (Suffer Score) over different time periods.

IIRC it's 42 days for CTL/Fitness and 7 days for ATL/Fatigue, or thereabouts. Clearly those constants are not actually going to be the same for everyone. But that doesn't mean it's useless, just means it's not gospel... you should fairly quickly get an idea of what the numbers mean for you if you keep using it.

philbar72

I find it useful but only for telling me what I already know. after a big and fairly fast ride i'll need to back off for a few days. after a race where I have to go hard, i'll need to go easy. and after an easy day or 2 everything will be back to relatively normal, and I can start doing harder work again.

Its not a patch on golden cheetah, if you keep that up to date properly it allows you far better planning for improvement, if that is your goal.

cycleclinic

I think I will be cancelling my strava premium membership because I don't find it useful. apparantly I have no form but tonight I felt stronger than I have all year in tonights race. I use a PM on some rides and a HR monitor always but I it does not seem to reflect how I feel at the moment. Something is missing.. GC gives alot of data but I dont use it. Seem to be improving with looking at the data so I will go with that for now. You can overthink things as well.

maryka

I would never consider paying for Strava Premium for the form and fatigue chart... there are much better Strava features worth paying for though.