Crashed today - possibly due to oil on road
Comments
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bendertherobot wrote:BigMat wrote:I get the whole "only race what you can afford to replace" thing, but its a bit of a stretch to say that you should be ready, willing and able to pay for any damage to you, your bike and your kit if you crash, regardless of whether it might have been someone else's fault.
Also not convinced by bender's legal arguments, that case law doesn't seem as wide as he is suggesting although I can't be bothered to read the whole judgment. Other informed posts upthread suggest that claims against the MIB are possible and I would be surprised if a local authority could never be held liable for failure to clear up a spillage.
It's quite wide. It's been followed by a number of cases since but it's quite a narrow area. It was followed in Searby v Essex County Council in 2013, though that's only a first instance decision.
Thing is, there are a number of hurdles. The duty in section 41 is almost certainly non existent in the first place. And even if you could show that it is it would be defeated by the section 58 defence. Now, none of this stops you suing the person who caused the spill, try finding them, but cases against the LA are almost entirely doomed to fail. Have a go at the MIB method by all means, they're not easy. The ones that have succeeded have done so after two appeals and full accident reconstructions.
That covers breach of statutory duty, could there be a straightforward negligence claim against whoever is responsible for the highways - pretty clear duty of care to road users, if there is a spill and they fail to take reasonable steps to deal with it then what is their defence? I can see that an MIB claim would be tortuous, to be honest I was surprised to learn it was even possible. Thanks to OP, this thread is quite interesting!0 -
BigMat wrote:bendertherobot wrote:BigMat wrote:I get the whole "only race what you can afford to replace" thing, but its a bit of a stretch to say that you should be ready, willing and able to pay for any damage to you, your bike and your kit if you crash, regardless of whether it might have been someone else's fault.
Also not convinced by bender's legal arguments, that case law doesn't seem as wide as he is suggesting although I can't be bothered to read the whole judgment. Other informed posts upthread suggest that claims against the MIB are possible and I would be surprised if a local authority could never be held liable for failure to clear up a spillage.
It's quite wide. It's been followed by a number of cases since but it's quite a narrow area. It was followed in Searby v Essex County Council in 2013, though that's only a first instance decision.
Thing is, there are a number of hurdles. The duty in section 41 is almost certainly non existent in the first place. And even if you could show that it is it would be defeated by the section 58 defence. Now, none of this stops you suing the person who caused the spill, try finding them, but cases against the LA are almost entirely doomed to fail. Have a go at the MIB method by all means, they're not easy. The ones that have succeeded have done so after two appeals and full accident reconstructions.
That covers breach of statutory duty, could there be a straightforward negligence claim against whoever is responsible for the highways - pretty clear duty of care to road users, if there is a spill and they fail to take reasonable steps to deal with it then what is their defence? I can see that an MIB claim would be tortuous, to be honest I was surprised to learn it was even possible. Thanks to OP, this thread is quite interesting!
It could do, and there are arguments that section 41 cases have never properly dealt with statutory duty. But the contrary argument is that the statutory duty merely reflects the common law duty in any event making a negligence claim unlikely to succeed.
Their defence will be based on reasonableness and have many of the same factors present as a section 58 defence. Given the nature and character of the highway, in the absence of a phone call report, it's likely to be gone by the time any reasonable inspection takes place.My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
https://twitter.com/roubaixcc
Facebook? No. Just say no.0 -
xdoc wrote:Instead of asking on here and getting grief why not simply ring the Motor Insurers Bureau and see is if you are able to make a claim or not. Phone number: 01908 830001
I'm sure many here would be interested in their response.
They wont settle for a case like this IMHO. It's too low a value and impossible to verify. Anyone could photograph an oil spill, scrape some partially worn clothing along the ground, scratch an old bike and hey presto you have a claim (I am NOT suggesting the OP did this).
It would set a precedent and potentially open the flood gates for many, mnay more claims some of which may be genuine and some of which wont be genuine. The cost of investigating individual claims against the value claimed would be disproportionate. The MIB will dismiss it as "tough luck mate".0 -
Sleeper Service wrote:You could claim, but, as bender's post points out, you have virtually no chance of success.
Still your time and money, innit?
go through a no win no fee?0 -
ColeMetcalfe wrote:Sleeper Service wrote:You could claim, but, as bender's post points out, you have virtually no chance of success.
Still your time and money, innit?
go through a no win no fee?
Can't imagine there is a lawyer on earth who would take that case - its a small claim for starters so no chance of recovering fees even if successful.0 -
Now I know what MIB actually stands for I have looked into it.
Not particularly promising for small claims without serious injury as there are quite a few caveats.
Mainly:
*With untraced drivers there is a £300 excess
*"To make a claim for property damage you must be able to identify the vehicle that caused the accident."
Which would appear to rule pretty much all of my claim - if it was actually provable in the first place.
Now I'm just mightily ******d off that I have a new set of carbon wheels sitting there waiting for a test run and it's sunny...0 -
Navrig2 wrote:xdoc wrote:Instead of asking on here and getting grief why not simply ring the Motor Insurers Bureau and see is if you are able to make a claim or not. Phone number: 01908 830001
I'm sure many here would be interested in their response.
They wont settle for a case like this IMHO. It's too low a value and impossible to verify. Anyone could photograph an oil spill, scrape some partially worn clothing along the ground, scratch an old bike and hey presto you have a claim (I am NOT suggesting the OP did this).
It would set a precedent and potentially open the flood gates for many, mnay more claims some of which may be genuine and some of which wont be genuine. The cost of investigating individual claims against the value claimed would be disproportionate. The MIB will dismiss it as "tough luck mate".
My thoughts exactly, I just think the OP needed to hear it from the 'horses mouth' as he seemed reluctant to accept the majority view on here.
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xdoc wrote:My thoughts exactly, I just think the OP needed to hear it from the 'horses mouth' as he seemed reluctant to accept the majority view on here.
Actually, I ended up doing my own research as no one spelled it out. I was perfectly happy to accept the fact that a claim might not come to anything.
I just didn't appreciate all the references to 'blame culture' and people basically telling me claiming would be akin to robbing widows and orphans...
The take home for anyone interested is, if you did injure yourself seriously enough this route would be worth exploring.0 -
CptKernow wrote:xdoc wrote:My thoughts exactly, I just think the OP needed to hear it from the 'horses mouth' as he seemed reluctant to accept the majority view on here.
Actually, I ended up doing my own research as no one spelled it out. I was perfectly happy to accept the fact that a claim might not come to anything.
I just didn't appreciate all the references to 'blame culture' and people basically telling me claiming would be akin to robbing widows and orphans...
The take home for anyone interested is, if you did injure yourself seriously enough this route would be worth exploring.
Fair point, I must admit until reading this thread I, and I'm sure many others, had never heard of the MIB, so we have all learnt something.0 -
I think it's a bit sad you had to ask if you could make a claim against this tbh. When you said there was oil on the road I was expecting a massive oil slick in wet conditions, not a rather pathetic dribble on a bone dry road (which isn't much slippier than water).
Even if it was a massive spill, you should have been looking where you were going and chosen a more suitable line/ speed. Road conditions are very unpredictable and you should have been more careful.
Be thankful you weren't badly hurt, and take it as a learning experience.
In case you're wondering, I have come off on unexpected gravel at the bottom of a regular descent when I was new to road cycling and was pretty banged up. I knew I messed up and learned from my mistake- I was pretty embarrassed at the time and would have been ashamed to make any claims against the council.
Accidents like these are what dedicated cycle insurance with personal injury cover is for.0 -
iron-clover wrote:I think it's a bit sad you had to ask if you could make a claim against this tbh. When you said there was oil on the road I was expecting a massive oil slick in wet conditions, not a rather pathetic dribble on a bone dry road (which isn't much slippier than water).
Why does it matter how much oil was on the road? If it's enough to slip on...iron-clover wrote:Be thankful you weren't badly hurt, and take it as a learning experience.
And why would it be a learning experience? I've come off before and I expect I'll come off again. I'm careful enough that it doesn't happen very often.0 -
CptKernow wrote:
Why does it matter how much oil was on the road? If it's enough to slip on...
I would guess because the quantity and nature of the spill would be taken into account when assessing any such claim. A decent spill as a result of overfilling a diesel tank or a spill of engine oil as a result of lack of maintenance are more likely to be seen as contributory factors or even criminal negligence. A small dribble may be regarded as a minor hazard to which everyone is subject.0 -
So basically you were riding faster than you could see...CptKernow wrote:If I'd seen it I would have avoided it - it was on the inside of a bend and not visible on entering the corner..."I ride to eat"0
