Crashed today - possibly due to oil on road

CptKernow

Came off on a corner today doing about 20mph. Quite a few cuts and bruises, not too much damage to the bike but wrecked my clothes.

I did a quick Google and a few sites came up with lawyers offering no-fee / no-win for motorbike accidents involving oil on the road even if those responsible can't be traced.
Does anyone know anything about this? Is it worth giving a go?

I did take a photo of the road, once I stopped staggering around cursing. I think you can see my tracks too:

cycleclinic

Dont claim. Who are claiming of yourself. The council pays up and that goes on your and everyones council tax.

The council cant wash all the roads. If you ride at speed get used to road rash i get a bout at least once year for greasy roads or ice.

Actually the liability is with you. You should not be travelling at a pace where you cannot stop or avoid hazzards like oil in road safely. Of course we all ride quicker thannthat but at our own risk.

cougie

I'd not claim myself. It's only a few clothes?

cougie

And by your own admission - you don't know if it was the oil. If you have doubt and it was you who crashed...

apreading

How do you know who dropped the oil? Who would you claim from?

If you are claiming that regardless of where it came from, the council should have cleared it up but then that only holds any water if they have been notified about it at least.

Onus is on us to avoid debris & slippery surfaces when cycling. Not always possible but its just a case of shoot happens here I think.

StillGoing

Claim. You'll win if the local authority was aware of the spill on the road and had failed to ensure it was cleared up as soon as possible. If they can show they weren't aware or were doing everything possible to get it cleaned up quickly or get warning notices put out, you won't win anything.

rolf_f

philthy3 wrote:

Claim. You'll win if the local authority was aware of the spill on the road and had failed to ensure it was cleared up as soon as possible. If they can show they weren't aware or were doing everything possible to get it cleaned up quickly or get warning notices put out, you won't win anything.

If it's like potholes then the council would have had to have been notified and failed to clear it up within 5 days or so. I would have thought that the likelihood that anyone had reported that would be minimal. But of course, it probably isn't the same. Minor spills sort themselves out if ignored; potholes just get bigger. Chances are that the spill would cease to be an issue before the council had a chance to do much about it. Problem here is that with a pothole, the first thing you do is check that the problem is a known one via the relevant websites and, if it isn't, you report it and check to see if it has been fixed within 5 days. If not, then you should stand a chance of winning a claim. But in the case of the spill, if it rains it will be gone in that time anyway.

AK_jnr

Always someone elses fault. Idiots.

veronese68

That looks like a reasonably fresh spill, no way the council could reasonably be held liable for that. Just chalk it up as experience and don't worry about it.

CptKernow

Thanks for (some of) the replies. If I crash and it's my fault fine - however, despite the title, I'm pretty sure I went down because there was oil on the road. Can't think of any other explanation why the wheels would go from under me on a dry road. You can say it is the cyclist's responsibility to avoid hazards created by others but fortunately that's not how it works in a civilised country.

As far as I know it isn't the council who are responsible for this kind of claim. I believe from my 5 minutes of research (which anyone weighing in with their advice might try) that claims are funded by some kind of motor insurance pool.

At the end of the day, to put everything back to the condition it was before the crash would cost me around £300+, not including injuries. So yes, I would prefer if I could get someone else to at least contribute to my costs.

CptKernow

AK_jnr wrote:

Always someone elses fault. Idiots.

W*nker

veronese68

I would add if you see a vehicle spilling oil or diesel, or if you see a dangerous spill on a road please report it.

fenix

Did you report it CK ?

CptKernow

Fenix wrote:

Did you report it CK ?

Yes, reported to the council.

debeli

Do not claim. Do not blame in this instance. These things happen.

Keep an eye out for potholes, cracks, repairs that are proud of the original surface, speed ramps, bollards, shiny surfaces indicating spills and many other things.

Claiming might imply that you expect the local authorities to have sufficient staffing levels to patrol the streets and call in a truck to spread concrete dust as soon as they detect a fuel or oil spill.

If you can get a clear photograph of it, one might imagine that you could have spotted it. If your first (or almost first) response to falling from a cycle is to photograph the road surface with a view to apportioning blame, may I suggest chess as an alternative.

Controlling a bicycle is part of the pleasure of riding - as is learning the hard way to spot where the tyre-tarmac interface might be subject to some compromise.

Oil or DERV or similar on a road surface is just one more thread in life's tapestry. Please do not ruin it for everyone else just because you're cross that you fell off your bicycle.

Having said all that, do get well soon. It can sting quite a bit when you fall. We all have and we all will again.

Brakeless

It's a hazard that you have to look out for. A car can spill a bit of oil and then you cycle along 2 minutes later. Can the council really be held responsible ?

I suppose they're responsible for slippery white lines and drain covers when it's wet as well or just maybe as cyclists we know they're hazards to avoid.

You came off your bike, get well soon, put it down to experience and move on.

bigmat

I think you'd have to be able to prove it was definitely the oil that caused the crash, that you couldn't reasonably have avoided it (looks pretty visible from the photo) and then that the council had failed to take reasonable steps to prevent the risk - probably similar to potholes, if reported to them they should take reasonable steps to clean it up. Claim against "motor insurers' pool" ? Sounds a bit like the MIB - I thought that was more to cover road traffic accidents where the guilty party couldn't be traced / wasn't insured. I think it would be a stretch to rely on that here. You'd have to prove the above and then that the oil must have come from a vehicle. It all starts getting a bit tenuous. FWIW, I had a similar accident a couple of years back, came off on a patch of diesel just along from a building site and fairly sure it was one of their vehicles that had probably deposited it. Just brushed myself down and put it down to experience, I think this is one of those cases where that is the best course of action.

Bobbinogs

Brakeless wrote:

It's a hazard that you have to look out for. A car can spill a bit of oil and then you cycle along 2 minutes later. Can the council really be held responsible ?

I suppose they're responsible for slippery white lines and drain covers when it's wet as well or just maybe as cyclists we know they're hazards to avoid.

You came off your bike, get well soon, put it down to experience and move on.

^^^ What he said.

CptKernow

I didn't actually start this thread to say who's fault this accident was. As I said in the OP I was asking if anyone had advice on claiming in such situations.

People seem to have no issues about making insurance claims when no one is really responsible i.e. act of god, so I was merely looking into the possibility of claiming back some of my costs.

So, as it doesn't seem there is a straightforward course of action here (which is what I was asking) I will just "move on" like in previous crashes where I have no problem taking 100% responsibility.

Dorset_Boy

Thing is Cpt, you claim and someone has to pay - these pots of money don't come from nowhere.

Looking at your piccie, the line of oil is down the road, and could easily have been avoided, it's not a pool of oil across the road that was unavoidable.

As others have said, it's like avoiding white lines and manhole covers in the wet....

Hope you heal quick.

Brakeless

CptKernow wrote:

I didn't actually start this thread to say who's fault this accident was. As I said in the OP I was asking if anyone had advice on claiming in such situations.

People seem to have no issues about making insurance claims when no one is really responsible i.e. act of god, so I was merely looking into the possibility of claiming back some of my costs.

I think claiming due to 'an act of god' ie your house flooding, water pipes bursting etc is what we pay insurance premiums for. If you have paid insurance that covers you for falling off your bike then go ahead and claim against the premiums you have paid.

The responsibility for the crash lies with you for not avoiding the oil, why you think there should be some magical pot of money available is ludicrous.

I'd normally have sympathy for any cyclist crashing but any sympathy I'd have for you has long since disappeared I'm afraid.

OnTheRopes

Brakeless wrote:

CptKernow wrote:

I didn't actually start this thread to say who's fault this accident was. As I said in the OP I was asking if anyone had advice on claiming in such situations.

People seem to have no issues about making insurance claims when no one is really responsible i.e. act of god, so I was merely looking into the possibility of claiming back some of my costs.

The responsibility for the crash lies with you for not avoiding the oil, why you think there should be some magical pot of money available is ludicrous.

I disagree. Responsibility lies with the person who created the slick, looks like on overfilled deisel tank or cap missing.
However seeing as they will never find the person responsible then there is no claim to make. All claiming off the council will do is cost money in court for something they will probably lose and ultimately if enough have this mentality will increase rates for us all.

drlodge

I've just managed to open the photo...that's a pretty small area that the oil is covering, I'd put it down to experience and watch out for similar slippery patches in future (like white lines and man hole covers as already mentioned).

CptKernow

Dorset Boy wrote:

Thing is Cpt, you claim and someone has to pay - these pots of money don't come from nowhere.

Yes, me and the fact I haven't made an insurance claim in 15 years!

Dorset Boy wrote:

Looking at your piccie, the line of oil is down the road, and could easily have been avoided, it's not a pool of oil across the road that was unavoidable.
.

If I'd seen it I would have avoided it - it was on the inside of a bend and not visible on entering the corner...

CptKernow

Brakeless wrote:

The responsibility for the crash lies with you for not avoiding the oil, why you think there should be some magical pot of money available is ludicrous.

I'd normally have sympathy for any cyclist crashing but any sympathy I'd have for you has long since disappeared I'm afraid.

Jesus! Remind me never to argue a point on this forum.

From asking a question, it now seems like I deserve everything I got...

fenix

I think that if the OP had seen it and realised it was oil - then yeah he'd have avoided it. You'd be a special kind of cyclist to want to ride over an oil patch.

debeli

CptKernow wrote:

Jesus! Remind me never to argue a point on this forum.

From asking a question, it now seems like I deserve everything I got...

That may not be an accurate reading of the responses you elicited.

You say that you did something many (if not all) of us have done: You fell from a bicycle on a bend where something on the surface may have compromised the grip of your tyres.

You asked in your OP whether the wider forum thought it worth pursuing a claim. The majority view was that it was not.

I'm not sure anyone has suggested you deserve everything you get. One or two (and I am in that number) may have found it amusing that you thought it worth photographing the 'offending' stretch of tarmac; and that you thought to make a claim - implicit in your asking for views on the matter.

I thought most of the responses were fair, well-argued and respectful. I'm not sure where you get the sense that this (a supportive and helpful forum in almost all matters) is somehow wishing you ill. It is not.

It may find slightly contemptible your apparent desire to find a party to blame for your poor luck and to seek monetary gain from said party, but I think the response has been generally mild and civilised.

You asked for some views and you got them. In future, look out for slippery surfaces.

And get well soon.

CptKernow

Debeli wrote:

That may not be an accurate reading of the responses you elicited.

I believe I quoted the offending post..

Although, I did find your previous post a little patronising too.

DeVlaeminck

I'd be interested if there really is a possibility of a successful claim here unless the person that spilled the oil can be traced (in which case they deserve to pay up) or the council has been remiss in not cleaning up the spill despite it being reported.

If it's' the latter then I can understand the feeling that councils are hard pressed and lacking funding but even so if they have failed in their duty to the public I don't think it's wrong to claim any more than it's wrong to claim off the NHS if their treatment is such that they are considered legally liable for reparations. Similar with potholes - if a dangerous hole is reported and not repaired then yes you have a right to claim - why not - if people don't claim in such circumstances you'll soon find that there are many more such dangerous holes.

drlodge

But how is this any different to there being a set of man hole covers that are as slippery as hell when wet and poorly placed. Would you sue the council for installing such covers which are too slippery for cyclists?

Sh1t happens. And its not always someone's fault.

mamba80

CptKernow wrote:

Brakeless wrote:

The responsibility for the crash lies with you for not avoiding the oil, why you think there should be some magical pot of money available is ludicrous.

I'd normally have sympathy for any cyclist crashing but any sympathy I'd have for you has long since disappeared I'm afraid.

Jesus! Remind me never to argue a point on this forum.

From asking a question, it now seems like I deserve everything I got...

Yep you did and more to the point there is more to come Stay in for the next few days and dont handle any sharp knives.

Seriously, there is the MIB for you to claim off, that is what it was set up for (by the ins industry for uninsured or hit an run drivers) and there is nothing wrong at all in claiming, what if instead of a few cloths you d broken your neck and needed 24/7 care for the rest of your short life?

but from my experience with m/c, MIB seem to operate on how big was the spill and if it could have been avoided ie could you have seen it and looking at this pic, they could say yes you could have.