Lower back pain - a simple cure?!!

bsharp77

Hi everyone,

Thought id post this just to see if anyone has experienced anything similar....

Ive had a Domane for a couple of years as I've always suffered from lower back pain on more aggressive frames.
The Domane is amazing....fast and comfortable - but I still had niggles with back, bum and hand pressure.
I was all set to go for a professional fit, when I read this:

http://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling/ ... overy.html

Who thought you could sit on a bike wrong?!!

I thought id give it a go....I lowered my seat slightly, stuck on a 10mm shorter stem (which I wanted to do anyway) and from a position point of view I rotated my hips more, as if I was pushing my bum out backwards - to create a straight line from the back of my head all the way to my bum.

I tried it this morning for 20km and it was fine - legs felt more engaged which actually made them fatigue quicker as I guess there are some muscles that aren't used to being used.

Went out this evening for 90 minutes - spent the whole time in the drops except for a couple of steep hills - the transformation of my riding position is astonishing and not even a hint of back pain - I could go and do the same again now.
It got to the point where when I went back up on the hoods I actually felt more uncomfortable.

5 years I've been riding a bike and have gradually been getting bikes with higher and higher stacks to accommodate the back issue - even a retul bike fit a couple of years ago didn't suggest this - they just flipped my stem even higher!!

Im annoyed I didn't try this sooner, but also excited that I may be able to go for a frame with a more aggressive position, as I do love going as fast as possible - ill keep riding and report back if I notice any changes over the next week.

Would be interested to hear if anyone else has done this - it seems so simple and makes sense to keep the back as straight as possible, yet its never been suggested to me before.

gaffer_slow

it seems that not only do people need to pay to have a bike that fits them properly,
they also need to be told how to ride a bike properly.
many also need to be taught to walk, and generally move around.

bsharp77

gaffer_slow wrote:

it seems that not only do people need to pay to have a bike that fits them properly,
they also need to be told how to ride a bike properly.
many also need to be taught to walk, and generally move around.

Dear dear, so sorry for wasting your time having to read my post Mr. Perfect.
Surprised you even bothered to read it considering you obviously know all the answers anyway :roll:

Hopefully the information is useful to someone out there.

gaffer_slow

i was wholly agreeing with your post, but you misinterpreted it as snark. no worries.

I think a lot of people think of a 'flat back' as parallel to the ground, aero as possible, bent over. But what you describe very well is exactly what you should be doing if you don't want to have back and/or neck pain - and as your hamstring and hip flexibility gradually increases you'll be able to get lower.

getting in the correct position makes a huge difference. And seriously, the majority of people are walking around with posture and/or mechanics that will very likely lead them to serious discomfort/recurring injuries later in life.

I only know this stuff as i have had various back injuries and body mechanic issues that plagued me for about 15 years before i looked at / tried the right thing posture-wise (and was disciplined about maintaining it), and as you have found in your post it is quite a revelation.

bsharp77

Gaffer, apologies, I definitely misinterpreted your first response! :oops:

Certainly makes a massive difference, and you seem to have a lot of experience with it too - amazing how such a small adjustment can affect so much!

mcstumpy

I switched to drop bar earlier this your, with a couple of recent longer rides I've had a bit of back ache after riding on drops for a while into a strong wind. Last night though I subconsciously adopted what I think you are describing and... sorted, no back pain.

stueys

If you intend to stay riding then get a bike fit. Riding isn't a natural position for the body and an incorrect position will just cause damage that it will take patience/Physio to correct. Always worth a fit

mamil314

Dropping bars and straightening back is all fine and dandy, but, as you tilt your pelvis, what do you sit on? Cobb even mentions 'lifting off sitbones', so, would you be sat on soft tissue for hours? I don't have much problem with adopting this position, except that saddle kills me.

markhewitt1978

gaffer_slow wrote:

it seems that not only do people need to pay to have a bike that fits them properly,
they also need to be told how to ride a bike properly.
many also need to be taught to walk, and generally move around.

And some people need to learn some goddam manners. You said that in a bar you'd get a punch in the mouth and you'd deserve it.

Thanks for your post OP I'm currently battling back issues and off the bike to recover as a result but I think part of my issue is that riding with a curved back so something to properly research if nothing else.

gaffer_slow

Stueys wrote:

If you intend to stay riding then get a bike fit. Riding isn't a natural position for the body and an incorrect position will just cause damage that it will take patience/Physio to correct. Always worth a fit

this is probably a much better way of saying what i meant.

markhewitt1978 wrote:

gaffer_slow wrote:

it seems that not only do people need to pay to have a bike that fits them properly,
they also need to be told how to ride a bike properly.
many also need to be taught to walk, and generally move around.

And some people need to learn some goddam manners. You said that in a bar you'd get a punch in the mouth and you'd deserve it.

Thanks for your post OP I'm currently battling back issues and off the bike to recover as a result but I think part of my issue is that riding with a curved back so something to properly research if nothing else.

edit : fuck it i dont care anymore.

bsharp77

markhewitt1978 wrote:

gaffer_slow wrote:

edit : fark it i dont care anymore.

ah gaffer its ok, don't go! Your first post really did read quite badly, but I know its not how you meant it - and you have a lot to offer this topic given your past experiences.

Went out again for 40km this morning, straight into the new position - was in the drops the whole time - even up the hills.
Which means ill be experimenting over the next few days slamming the stem to see what happens - this may make the drops too low, but at least the hoods should be better - at the minute the hoods feel as if they are now in the clouds and just don't feel right.

Ill also need to experiment with saddle height and position - even though I had no pain - there was quite a bit of pressure on my hands (to be fair there was even when I was on the hoods in my old position, so this needs sorted).

I do intend to go for a proper bike fit - I'm just going to give the new position a few weeks to bed in so that when I go, ill have a better feeling for what I need. As mentioned, I had a retul fit in London a couple of years ago and none of this was mentioned - I had a lovely Focus Izalco at the time and he ended up raising the stem to a ridiculous angle and that was that....so ill be fully prepared with a lot more knowledge and experience of riding positions this time around.

markhewitt1978

Your post is of interest as I've been gradually moving the bars higher and closer but I have been wondering if that's the wrong direction and effectively hunching my back is a cause of many of my issues.

It may or may not be telling that my back issues get worse when braking down hill (others have scoffed at this) that it could be indicative of my back not being 'straight' which would transmit the braking force to my backside but instead trandmits it to the bend in my spine.

And yeah I do need another bike fit ( although I've had two already ).

bsharp77

markhewitt1978 wrote:

Your post is of interest as I've been gradually moving the bars higher and closer but I have been wondering if that's the wrong direction and effectively hunching my back is a cause of many of my issues.

It may or may not be telling that my back issues get worse when braking down hill (others have scoffed at this) that it could be indicative of my back not being 'straight' which would transmit the braking force to my backside but instead trandmits it to the bend in my spine.

And yeah I do need another bike fit ( although I've had two already ).

Very interesting that you should mention forces being transmitted to your spine when curved.
I was having so many problems, even a relaxed geometry didn't stop the back problems (while in a curved spine position). Only moving to the Domane made me nearly pain free as it's such an unbelievably smooth bike.

Now that my spine is straight, everything feels much stronger and natural - all the high stacks and shock absorbtion had been to cater for a bent spine being put under pressure.....how this wasn't spotted by my professional fit is truly beyond me.

I guess the acid test will be trying a proper racing frame again...my local lbs stocks the Scott Foil, if I can get a test on that, I'll have a fair idea of how I'm shaping up.

I'll always keep the Domane as it's truly a wonderful bike, but all being well, I can't wait till September to pick up a speed machine in the sales!

diy

men aren't particularly good at rotating from the hips, its unnatural for us given that our legs naturally turn out slightly more than women. This means we often lean forward from the waist, which can cause problems.

I can't see that a shorter stem and lower seat will help though as this will increase the load surely?

markhewitt1978

Yeah I'm interested about the shorter stem part, as if you're rotating your hips and having a straighter back then that would increase your reach and tend towards a longer, not shorter stem requirement?

Looking at my position in the drops, my back does seem to describe a curve rather than a straight line it would be interesting to see a comparison image from the OP.

bsharp77

Sorry guys, yes the shorter stem wasn't changed in relation to my position - I thought it was too long anyway, so changed it at the same time. I think you would be right - the rotation actually stretches you out giving a longer reach.

As a quick update, done my 20km commute this morning after slamming the stem yesterday evening (1.5cm lower than before). Not a single niggle with my back - I was able to use both the hoods and the drops with no discomfort, although I need to tweak the saddle position and bring it forward as I stupidly also moved it back too far while fettling last night, so will update again tomorrow.

markhewitt1978

bsharp77 wrote:

Sorry guys, yes the shorter stem wasn't changed in relation to my position - I thought it was too long anyway, so changed it at the same time. I think you would be right - the rotation actually stretches you out giving a longer reach.

Right; that's what I thought. See I've been back a forward for a good while between thinking that I'm reaching too far and that I should have a shorter stem, and thinking that I'm too hunched up so I should try a longer one. Have to say however neither has particularly worked; but not sure if I was sat on the bike correctly in the first place.

bsharp77

markhewitt1978 wrote:

bsharp77 wrote:

Sorry guys, yes the shorter stem wasn't changed in relation to my position - I thought it was too long anyway, so changed it at the same time. I think you would be right - the rotation actually stretches you out giving a longer reach.

Right; that's what I thought. See I've been back a forward for a good while between thinking that I'm reaching too far and that I should have a shorter stem, and thinking that I'm too hunched up so I should try a longer one. Have to say however neither has particularly worked; but not sure if I was sat on the bike correctly in the first place.

Yes, exactly what I was doing too! I guess the longer stem with a curved back just made things worse and you compensate with a shorter reach, which then still feels wrong!
The flat back position naturally puts you into a longer position with less stress.

Ill still be booking in for a full fit shortly as ill be very interested to get a professional opinion on everything, and also to fine tune the position.

thejames

I wear a lower back support belt which just fixes my posture into the right position whilst I ride. Not had much strain since started doing that.