Athena or Potenza

secretsam

So, the bike is begging for an upgrade...but do I get a bargain Athena group or the new Potenza?

Calpol

Depends on what you've got already. Personally I have Chorus - bit sexier

canamdad

I guess if you need it right away then Athena is your choice ATM. Potenza will let you use a 32T cog in the back and has the newer FD design of the higher groups so if that's more important then wait. Hard to say for price yet as selling price won't really be known until Potenza arrives. Also a plus for Potenza, is that Campag says the crankset is removable for servicing without expensive tools. As for me, think I'll give it some time and see how others get on with it.

ugo.santalucia

Oh great, Campagnolo have introduced a new mid range groupset in their already overcrowded range of groupsets that are all the same... I really don't understant what's going in Vicenza TBH

bigmat

But they have dropped Centaur haven't they? Still seems to be a bit of overlap between Athena and Potenza, although I suspect they will downgrade Athena to be a 105 competitor, Potenza up against Ultegra and then the same old confusion regarding just how Chorus and Record compare to Dura Ace. Super Record is just super-bling with no added functionality, right?!

DeVlaeminck

BigMat wrote:

But they have dropped Centaur haven't they? Still seems to be a bit of overlap between Athena and Potenza, although I suspect they will downgrade Athena to be a 105 competitor, Potenza up against Ultegra and then the same old confusion regarding just how Chorus and Record compare to Dura Ace. Super Record is just super-bling with no added functionality, right?!

Something like that I think!

So do they still do veloce and mirage?

bigmat

Mirage long gone (and Xenon). I think Veloce is now their entry level gruppo.

ugo.santalucia

BigMat wrote:

But they have dropped Centaur haven't they? Still seems to be a bit of overlap between Athena and Potenza, although I suspect they will downgrade Athena to be a 105 competitor, Potenza up against Ultegra and then the same old confusion regarding just how Chorus and Record compare to Dura Ace. Super Record is just super-bling with no added functionality, right?!

They have to diversify or they will be swallowed. You can't keep a brand going based on the fact that 30 years ago they were the best... even Apple understood that.

Currently Campagnolo only does one thing in 7 marginally different colours... it's a bit as if Brooks only did 7 leather saddles for the same type of cyclist

bigmat

They haven't done anything that could be seen as leading the way since the advent of 11 speed. Plus a lot of their stuff seems to have gone backwards in terms of quality and functionality. Potenza does look like a decent offering from what I have read, but not sure it will pull anyone away from Shimano / SRAM.

ugo.santalucia

BigMat wrote:

They haven't done anything that could be seen as leading the way since the advent of 11 speed. Plus a lot of their stuff seems to have gone backwards in terms of quality and functionality. Potenza does look like a decent offering from what I have read, but not sure it will pull anyone away from Shimano / SRAM.

Shimano does road race groupsets for cable/electric and hydraulic, MTB groupsets with hydraulics, CX components, touring components, city bike components and hub gears among other things, which also include fishing equipment.

Campagnolo only does the first and only without hydraulics. They also do a corkscrew

Campagnolo used to be pretty much the only groupset in road racing up to 1980, these days probably 10% of the race bikes sold in the world have Campagnolo gears and less than 1% of the bicycles sold in the world have Campagnolo gears

In the bicycle world they have a status, but they are completely irrelevant. If they went bust tomorrow, hardly anyone would be affected, except a small group of fanatics and nostalgics... that I see as a problem
I like my Record Ergo levers, but if they broke tomorrow (and I hope they don't), I'd buy a cheaper pair of Shimano

DeVlaeminck

I still think Campag is a good choice if you are buying a groupset. I'm actually using Shimano on my race bike now as it came with Ultegra but hand on heart it is not as good as the Chorus I had immediately prior to that - OK I know you can get Ultegra for less than you can get Chorus you are buying a genuine step up for the money.

Yes Shimano also does a lot of other stuff besides road groupsets but for those of us whose cycling interests are 99% road that is neither here nor there.

ugo.santalucia

DeVlaeminck wrote:

I still think Campag is a good choice if you are buying a groupset. I'm actually using Shimano on my race bike now as it came with Ultegra but hand on heart it is not as good as the Chorus I had immediately prior to that - OK I know you can get Ultegra for less than you can get Chorus you are buying a genuine step up for the money.

Yes Shimano also does a lot of other stuff besides road groupsets but for those of us whose cycling interests are 99% road that is neither here nor there.

I am not even arguing on the quality, it's the business acumen of Valentino Campagnolo which I am not overly sure about. He missed the MTB explosion in thr late 80s (well, he tried and failed), he has given up on anything which is not racing and he came out with any innovation after Shimano did the same before (unless you consider 11 sprockets an innovation, rather than an incremental upgrade of 10) that include STI levers, electric, hydraulic and 24 mm axle chainsets.
If you are not an innovator, you are not mainstream, then you are only niche... like Chris King or Enve... doing the same things as others but more expensive and very very arguably better

antonyfromoz

slight hijack but does anyone know if the Potenza 11-32 cassette will work with the 11 speed Athena rear derailleur? My understanding is that the only real issue will be if there is sufficient space between the jockey wheel and the cassette but I could very easily be wrong about that...

gaffer_slow

they need to hurry up and release a 105 level corkscrew.

canamdad

antonyfromoz wrote:

slight hijack but does anyone know if the Potenza 11-32 cassette will work with the 11 speed Athena rear derailleur? My understanding is that the only real issue will be if there is sufficient space between the jockey wheel and the cassette but I could very easily be wrong about that...

I think you're right about the jockey wheel clearance being the determining factor but that's the problem isn't it, no one knows until it actually comes out and someone has tried it. I expect that Campag would say no but there are some posts out there where people have used an IRD after market cassette which has a 32T and it has worked. Seems that it is somewhat dependent on the length of your derailleur drop out as to whether the upper jockey wheel clears. Unfortunately, the IRD cassettes are a major investment to find out if your particular system works.

antonyfromoz

canamdad wrote:

antonyfromoz wrote:

slight hijack but does anyone know if the Potenza 11-32 cassette will work with the 11 speed Athena rear derailleur? My understanding is that the only real issue will be if there is sufficient space between the jockey wheel and the cassette but I could very easily be wrong about that...

I think you're right about the jockey wheel clearance being the determining factor but that's the problem isn't it, no one knows until it actually comes out and someone has tried it. I expect that Campag would say no but there are some posts out there where people have used an IRD after market cassette which has a 32T and it has worked. Seems that it is somewhat dependent on the length of your derailleur drop out as to whether the upper jockey wheel clears. Unfortunately, the IRD cassettes are a major investment to find out if your particular system works.

that's what i am hoping -should be able to get a 32 on at about half the price of the current option - providing cassette prices are similar to chorus...

the_cyclist_of_catan

I have 11-speed Athena, although as parts fail I'm looking to upgrade to Chorus (or perhaps Potenza). There have been a few reliability issues with Athena stuff, and I don't like the way you can't easily service the BB.

Currently I have 2015 Chorus shifters, and Athena 2012 derailleurs. According to Campag, my bike could explode at any moment.

canamdad

BTW, Merlin is showing Potenza available as a full group for £569.95

thepeginator

Athena is currently £425 on CRC, you can save yourself well over £100 and get 105 or spend about £30-40 more and get Ultegra, seems like a no brainer to me. Not quite as eminently 'stylish' but Shimano stuff does 'just work'.

bigmat

Shimano is the logical choice, but then so many illogical choices are made when it comes to cycling. When people seem happy to spend £100 on a Rapha jersey, £60 to do a ride on public roads, £1,000+ on a pair of wheels etc etc it surprises me that the cost of Campagnolo stuff is such a big issue.

DeVlaeminck

Ultegra works, imo Chorus works better but costs more - either is a logical choice - I accept all Ugo says about Campag having a limited range of products and having failed to innovate in recent years but if you want a non-innovative mechanical road groupset they are still imo a logical rather an just an emotional choice.

amrushton

Potenza/Athena/Roma/Firenze - it's just names now. If the OP can afford it just get Chorus. 11 speed should work with Shimano freehubs but doesn't the new Shimano just work whatever the rear cassette size? That's the way I'd want to go as I could just run 11-28/12-30/11-32 just by switching a cassette. If Campagnolo was to shut tomorrow would we miss it? I don't think so. FSA supposedly have a gruppo coming out and SRAM have ETAP plus their mechanical range. As for Italian bike/gruppo, none of the Italian bike makers (or distributors as many of the bikes are built in the Far East) care what you put on the bikes.

cycleclinic

The problem for campag is no ond would buy mtb parts from if they made them shimano and sram have cornered that market.
If campag do go it would be sad as then there will be only two groupset manufacturers out there and is not good for the industry.

bondurant

Wouldn't be happy at all if Campag went away personally.

I'd miss them and anyone (ok, not Ugo) that has invested in their stuff would miss them too.

As I have one or two Shimano parts I'd have to say I would miss them also.

But as I don't have anything made by SRAM I shouldn't miss them at all.

But I do think it is healthier having several brands competing for our £££

ugo.santalucia

The name Campagnolo will never disappear

bondurant

Ah yes, good point.

MikeBrew

Bondurant wrote:

Wouldn't be happy at all if Campag went away personally.

I'd miss them and anyone (ok, not Ugo) that has invested in their stuff would miss them too.

As I have one or two Shimano parts I'd have to say I would miss them also.

But as I don't have anything made by SRAM I shouldn't miss them at all.

But I do think it is healthier having several brands competing for our £££

In light of your recent meaningless generic chant to the effect handbuilt are generally better built, presumably you don't buy wheels by either Shimano or Campagnolo.

You're missing a trick by not having any SRAM components, by the way. They are superb. :!:

amrushton

ugo.santalucia wrote:

The name Campagnolo will never disappear

It will just get bought and used as a marketing aid. But FSA are rumoured to have a gruppo on the way and poss. going straight to electric. Given the number of people who use their products Campag could go even further down the list. They'd be ripe for a buy-out. Their heritage is fantastic and their products eg the wheels and the gruppos are still great but expensive compared to what's out there now. Bora is still a great looking wheel and who wouldn't like a set of Ghibli or Hyperons. But the prices are crazy and their market is sadly limited. SRAM etap has moved elecric shifting on. The practically wireless bikes look great

bondurant

MikeBrew wrote:

In light of your recent meaningless generic chant

My what?

No, I don't have any Campag or Shimano wheels, only handbuilts. Though I have had hubs from both companies and they have all been excellent.

DeVlaeminck

amrushton wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

The name Campagnolo will never disappear

It will just get bought and used as a marketing aid. But FSA are rumoured to have a gruppo on the way and poss. going straight to electric. Given the number of people who use their products Campag could go even further down the list. They'd be ripe for a buy-out. Their heritage is fantastic and their products eg the wheels and the gruppos are still great but expensive compared to what's out there now. Bora is still a great looking wheel and who wouldn't like a set of Ghibli or Hyperons. But the prices are crazy and their market is sadly limited. SRAM etap has moved elecric shifting on. The practically wireless bikes look great

Are the prices crazy though - Chorus vs Dura Ace - isn't the Chorus cheaper ? I've got some Fulcrum zero wheels - that's basically campag yes? - whether they are expensive or not they cost me no more than the Shimano equivalent. I don't want to come across as a Campag fanboy but I'd hate to see them go under because people wrongly believe they are too expensive because they aren't.

holiver

I hadn't heard of the Potenza groupset before, but having read about it and seen that it doesn't really offer anything that is functionally different to Athena, I would purchase the latter.

The chainset looks nice though.