Cannondale SuperSix Evo HM - rear chainstay tyre rub

Fat-Boy-Roubaix

That is weird, same thing different side. It will be interesting what Evans say. Like you say it is like the dropout is over sized. Were Fulcrums the standard wheel? That is what they kept saying to me why hadn't I returned it with my Fulcrum Zero's I didn't purely because I thought they would want to see it with the standard wheels.

I had considered taking it further, still might although time is not on my side.

bendertherobot

Yeah, had Aksium on before, but it would be made to claim that you can't swap out wheels. Drop outs should be fairly standard, no way Fulcrum are under sizing their axles.

vpnikolov

Below is clearance on both sides:





This is the 2016 ultegra model. Looks like clearance is a tad bit wider compared to you guys, but again you can see that it is narrower on the right side.

Fat-Boy-Roubaix

Your images don't show, but the 2016 models can take 28mm and ship with 25mm. I was surprised Bendertherobot said his 2015 came with 25mm fitted as that is the same frame as mine and the max suggested is 23mm, and CSG said that 25mm would invalidate the warranty.

bendertherobot

Most, if not all of them did, so no idea what Cannondale are on about!
http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/m7b65s6p57 ... O-105-2015

vpnikolov

Mine shipped with 25c as well and has 25c on now. Electrical tape does not have indicate any rubbing, at least for now.

vpnikolov

And tbh, I can't see how it will fit 28c, seems impossible.

itboffin

Won't the fitted tyre width be dependent on your wheels?

I have 25c Vittoria rubino pro which measure 23 on one set of rims, same with my open paves and michelin pro4 SC all measure 23 on certain rims.

I find conti tyres come up a bit wider, my Scott SL can just about take a 25c with a few mil each side and no rub or wonky alignment, that all sounds like utter BS from canondale

wavefront

AK_jnr wrote:

On my 2012 supersix no problem at the rear with 25's but mine could rub under the fork.

Yup, exactly same here with the forks. Wheels perfectly centre and visually miles away from the fork, but somehow it's rubbed paint layers away underside of forks.

bartlett78

Own a 2014 Supersix Evo HM frame purchased frame only from Westbrook Cycles.

I discovered the same thing last year on the drive side seat stay, tyre had scuffed the paint layer.
I saw the online issues with alignment and spoke to Westbrook who were very helpful, I sent back the bike, they advised there was paint in the dropouts so it was sent to a carbon specialist local to them who faced the dropouts internally.
Once I received the bike back I noticed that the wheel once in the drop outs naturally sat closer to one seat stay then the other. It required manual aligning/centralling before closing the quick release.
I contacted Westbrook again who sent the bike to CSG (cannonade distributor) their report back read something like this.

"frame is aligned, aftermarket wheels have been used" they referred to my bike as a Supersix EVO HM Dura - ace - available as a complete build, yet I'd purchased frame only and custom built myself. The wheels were Mavic Ksyrium SL with Schwalbe One 23c tyres, pretty much what is available with the full bike.

I resigned myself to the fact that nothing was going to be done and as the damage was minimal I applied a patch of heli tape with a view to monitoring it and being really careful when aligning the wheel.

A few months have gone by since then and I have purchased some Mavic 40c carbon wheels which are the same width as the Ksyrium and again using Schwalbe One 23c tyres - after consulting Westbrook and Wheelbase regarding max rim width.

I have noticed this morning that the damage to the seat stay is back, luckily its minimal still as the tape took the damage first. I think I may have to get an independent frame inspection as i am stuck for what to do now.

Its a real shame as the frame/bike is really fantastic but i always have this little niggle now.

Has anyone had any success with CSG/Cannondale?

Its worth pointing out that my frame was built as a full team option in 2014 and 2015 with Vision Metron 55 wheels which having looked on the net have a 23mm rim width I think, I wonder if those owners also had the same issue?

bartlett78

For the record i have not tried anything above 23c tyres.

bendertherobot

Aftermarket wheels. What bollocks. If there's no fault with the wheels used (and it's too common an issue for it to be after market fault) then it's either a) the frame or b) the fitted wheels. Either of which would give rise to a warranty claim.

Fat-Boy-Roubaix

Wow I don't know what to do seems to me Bartlett has exactly the same issue, I don't know where to get it inspected and a long time has elapsed as well. It was Ben "head of warranty" that dealt with me Autumn last year. I felt sure they said something similar to me but couldn't find any evidence in my email.

Really expected better of Cannondale to be honest. I wasn't after my money back just a identical frame that a wheel sits straight in without having to faff around. Got my bike back from an LBS after a service checked the wheel alignment and they had put it in bent so I know its not me.

jamin100

Will this weaken the integrity of the carbon or is it just cosmetic ?

itboffin

More likely to weaken the frame on a top end frameset like the supersix, they'll not be adding extra layers of carbon for fun.

Fat-Boy-Roubaix

CSG put it in writing to me to carry on riding it is fine as it is currently

Found that really reassuring lol

Bartlett, turn you bike upside down and check the wheel in the dropouts and see if you have a one that has loads of play, that's seems to be the theme.

With my wheel straight and QR closed bike upright, if you open the QR it clunks in to place, but right over to the drive side stay due to non drive dropout play. To be clear there is no damage to the paint or alloy part of either dropout.

The only thing I feel a twat for is thinking when it was brand new freshly out the box it was normal as I took it off the stand and centred the wheel on the floor!

bartlett78

I forgot to add that CSG commented that there was a dish on the wheel of 2mm, this still doesn't explain why the wheel doesn't align correctly without manual adjustment.

Fat-Boy-Roubaix

bartlett78 wrote:

I forgot to add that CSG commented that there was a dish on the wheel of 2mm, this still doesn't explain why the wheel doesn't align correctly without manual adjustment.

Is your alignment issue due to excessive play in one of the dropouts as per the two videos on this thread?

bartlett78

Quite possibly

jimbod75

I have recently discovered I have the same issue. To those who have encountered this problem, has there been a resolution either from the LBS or Cannondale (CSG) themselves?

I am expecting a battle to get either a refund or a frame replacement. Would be interested to know how people have gone about tackling this problem.

Fat-Boy-Roubaix

jimbod75 wrote:

I have recently discovered I have the same issue. To those who have encountered this problem, has there been a resolution either from the LBS or Cannondale (CSG) themselves?

I am expecting a battle to get either a refund or a frame replacement. Would be interested to know how people have gone about tackling this problem.

I got told basically it was my fault for either running an out of dish wheel or riding with the QR to loose for too long despite there being no noticeable adverse wear in the dropout. I made the mistake of sending it back with the original wheelset while I got my Zero's serviced.

It was like banging my head up against a brick wall. I went too long thinking it was normal to sit further over one side and that was their main thrust of argument the time I had taken, I know daft but straight out of the box what else could it have been!

I was offered a crash replacement but the Bike shop (I Think) took the pish and said all in including swapping my gear over it would work out around £700, plus the colour was matt black 2013 I think

Is yours the same symptoms of one of the dropouts oversized? What model year?

theozricle

i realize this thread is ageing a little now but i just needed to vent some bewilderment over my situation which seems the same as others in this thread.
I have an ultegra 2015 evo with the same problem.
I have recently taken it to my LBS and its been back to cannondale - CSG warranty
My wheel is closer to the non drive side stay. I mentioned this at my LBS on two occasions they assured me they thought it to be fine. It was only recently getting caught out on a very wet ride unintentionally and stripping the bike for a good clean. I have noticed the paint is gone and it's into the carbon.
CSG are adamant that I have ridden the bike with a loose QR and the rear wheel is slightly out of dish. I maintain its neither it's a fault but they are not going to admit it. I am an engineer and I know exactly how to tighten a nut and bolt. I did put conti 25s on though and this has not helped my cause. Although if the wheel sat centrally in the stays I don't think these tyres would even rub. I will post some pics of mine when I get a minute.
I have emailed them again, they have replied saying they have inspected it and that their decision is final.
Shame as I love the way the bike rides. I will never buy another cannondale, period

svetty

My 2013 model has always had the rear wheel slightly angled towards the NDS. I can run 25mm tyres without rub but do have to be careful that the wheel is as centred as possible albeit still slightly angled......

Anonymous

theozricle wrote:

i realize this thread is ageing a little now but i just needed to vent some bewilderment over my situation which seems the same as others in this thread.
I have an ultegra 2015 evo with the same problem.
I have recently taken it to my LBS and its been back to cannondale - CSG warranty
My wheel is closer to the non drive side stay. I mentioned this at my LBS on two occasions they assured me they thought it to be fine. It was only recently getting caught out on a very wet ride unintentionally and stripping the bike for a good clean. I have noticed the paint is gone and it's into the carbon.
CSG are adamant that I have ridden the bike with a loose QR and the rear wheel is slightly out of dish. I maintain its neither it's a fault but they are not going to admit it. I am an engineer and I know exactly how to tighten a nut and bolt. I did put conti 25s on though and this has not helped my cause. Although if the wheel sat centrally in the stays I don't think these tyres would even rub. I will post some pics of mine when I get a minute.
I have emailed them again, they have replied saying they have inspected it and that their decision is final.
Shame as I love the way the bike rides. I will never buy another cannondale, period

If you put 25mm tyres (especially continental) on a bike designed for 23mm, I really cannot see why you think you have a case.
CSG should not have even mentioned QR.
The tyres are just too big!

Did it have the 25mm (or more like 26mm+ if Continental) tyres on when LBS said it was ok?

I don't think you can blame Cannondale, you fitted the tyres.
Loads of people fit tyres that look like they just about fit, and are then surprised when movement and gunk stuck to tyres rubs the frame away.

It only needs to catch the frame lightly. Its the number of light rubs that does the damage.

Wifes 2016 SS HM comes with 25mm, but its a different frame.

bendertherobot

2015 came with 25c Mavic tyres.

Anonymous

Like I said.
Cannondales fault then 8)

Bowing to public pressure for 25mm tyres!

theozricle

As mentioned above. The 2015 ultegra came with mavic aksium WTS so 25mm askiums.
Although I never ran that setup on the bike as I had brand new ksyriums with the 25mm conti's on which were swapped out before even collecting the bike from LBS.
I like my LBS but I also feel as the retailer they shouldn't have let it leave the store with this combination, unknown to me but this seemed to be an issue.
This was my 1st serious road bike and I was very new to cycling. I am an engineer and should have seen the problem really, but I also know about tolerances and was completely unaware things would be sooo tight back there. It was a 2015 model and its not like the wider tyre trend wasn't already around.

bendertherobot

Carbonator wrote:

Like I said.
Cannondales fault then 8)

Bowing to public pressure for 25mm tyres!

They changed the frame though to allow them. Of course, they didn't supply wide rims, so......

Shav

To add to this thread, I have a 2014 SuperSix Evo (non HiMod). I changed the wheels to Mavic Ksyrium Elites which came with 25mm Mavic tyres and they were tight and I got a bit of rub, which luckily I spotted very early.
I swapped the tyres to 24c Specialized Turbo's and they fit fine - very good tyres too in my opinion. Definitely smoother than the 23's I was running before and the wider Mavic rims help here too.

Decaffeinated

theozricle wrote:

i realize this thread is ageing a little now but i just needed to vent some bewilderment over my situation which seems the same as others in this thread.
I have an ultegra 2015 evo with the same problem.
I have recently taken it to my LBS and its been back to cannondale - CSG warranty
CSG are adamant that I have ridden the bike with a loose QR and the rear wheel is slightly out of dish. I maintain its neither it's a fault but they are not going to admit it. I am an engineer and I know exactly how to tighten a nut and bolt. I did put conti 25s on though and this has not helped my cause. Although if the wheel sat centrally in the stays I don't think these tyres would even rub. d

How wide are your rims? One thing I learned recently -- never knew -- is that apparently a 25 mm tire ends up being quite a bit wider on a wide-rim than it does on a narrow one. With some of the newer, wider aero rims, a 23 mm tire can be as wide (and plush) as a 25 mm one is on an older, narrower rim.

I've been fortunate enough to have avoided this problem on my 2015 Supersix Black Ink, even with 25 mm tires. But my wheels are 19-mm rim-width Shimanos.

I'd really like to buy a new pair of aero wheels but I'm wondering how wide I can go in the wheel width itself. Does anybody get rubbing from the *wheels* here or just from the tires?

I was hoping that maybe some Hed Jet 6's (which have a 25 mm rim width) would fit if I went down to 23 mm tires...