What do people think about wheelsuckers?

dstev55

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

dstev55 wrote:

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

DavidJB wrote:

dstev55 wrote:

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

dstev55 wrote:

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

Alex99 wrote:

dstev55 wrote:

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

Why not just ride as a group for the whole ride? You don't all jump around on the flat so why do it on the hills?

If I don't push myself on hills then on some rides it would feel like I've not even been out.

I haven't got enough spare time in my life to waste on rides that are of no benefit to me.

Call it selfish, lack of respect whatever, but I enjoy the physical challenge of cycling as much if not more than the social aspect.

If you're focussed on getting quality training out of each ride, then why ride in a group with less able riders where you'll have to wait at the top of hills?

Why not go out cycling alone then? Or go with a group of a better ability than you?

I do sometimes, but the guys I go out with are the guys that have helped me go from a complete novice one year ago to a decent cyclist now. I would not be where I am in terms of fitness and ability if I didn't go out with these guys. A couple of them are as strong if not stronger still now. At some point (probably next year) I will join one of the local clubs with some stronger guys, but right now there's still plenty I can learn from them and we all have a laugh when we're out.

I disagree. You're just a bloke with a bike that doesn't like doing a fair share on the flat and saves his legs to show off on the climbs. Decent cyclists don't ride like that.

If you did your fair share on the flat, you'd get a good workout without needing to start waving your fool around on the hills.

It's amazing how you know me so well considering you've never met me. Fortunately you or your opinion mean absolutely nothing to me.

Group rides are shoot training unless it's a proper double hard bastard chain gang.

Nah, I'm pretty sure I've sussed you out 100%

now go put on your pro team kit and pretend you're marco pantani out sprinting your mates up a hill after sitting on them all ride

I'll stick by my opinions and beliefs all day long, but what I won't do is resort to throwing unfounded insults at people I've never met or never likely to meet.

Shame you can't follow the same ethos...

being of the opinion and belief that you're a decent cyclist doesn't make it so. in fact your described riding style indicates that you aren't.

We might not have agreed on much so far, but can we both agree that this is all get a bit boring and tedious now? :roll:

debeli

Wheelsuckers:

Within a club ride, these things tend to be sorted out internally in fairly short order. It is not a 'rant and shout' issue, just one of etiquette and gentle advice or guidance.

New members or riders who've just moved up from a 'slower' ride may be glad of some freedom to take a few passes from more experienced people. That is not a crime.

Outside the club world, there is really no harm in it at all. I know many people who say it is a danger, but have never been brought down by a wheelsucker in decades of being followed.

It takes no toll on the lead rider and (again, outside club rides) there is no way of knowing whether the wheelsucker is popping to the shops in full kit or doing LEJoG in tweed and a deerstalker.

In 'modern' cycling, some keener riders seem to have a particular enmity reserved for wheelsuckers, but in reality they have little effect. I've done it myself from time to time, but I like always to offer to take a turn. Clearly, some riders have no idea what I'm talking about when I come past and rev up to stay ahead. Which is fine....

Live and let live.

And in clubs, it will be sorted in the best way.

ben@31

I was once cycling on my own along a long straight road that's several mile long, there was a strong headwind that day. I saw another cyclist in the distance, in front of me. I managed to catch him up easy and as he was struggling more than me, as soon as I overtook him I slowed right down so he could sit on my wheel. Then slower and slower... either he was refusing to sit on my wheel or didn't understand what I was trying to do?
Then unexpectedly another random stranger flew past both of us! I was quite annoyed by this, So dropped the first guy who didn't want my wheel and caught up with the second guy. Both him and guy #2 worked quite well together, (considering we never met before) subconsciously swapping over every 30 seconds and averaged a good speed for a windy day.
A stint at the front doesn't have to be for a long time, I find rotating pacelines quite fun.
To conclude...
I honestly dont mind wheelsuckers if their new and are struggling into wind, while I'm feeling fresher than them.
Taking it in turns can be advantageous for a good average speed. So the guy in the front doesnt tire out, almost like interval training with rests and efforts.
Swapping around can break up the tediousness of a long straight road if you can't chat side by side. A rotating paceline with 10 people in, thats working well can be quite satisfying.

cruff

I don't care about wheelsuckers. I find if I go past someone, most of the time they can't stick with me anyway. On those occasions where I do pick one up, if they're not wiling to work after a km or so I just up it and shell them.

Different when you're out on a run with people who know the score - but most of the time they'll know if they can't handle the pace and just drop off the back. Everyone's been there.

Never really understood why people get so upset about it to be honest.

ben@31

zebulebu wrote:

I don't care about wheelsuckers. I find if I go past someone, most of the time they can't stick with me anyway. On those occasions where I do pick one up, if they're not wiling to work after a km or so I just up it and shell them.

Enrico Gasparotto, is that you ?

cruff

ben@31 wrote:

zebulebu wrote:

I don't care about wheelsuckers. I find if I go past someone, most of the time they can't stick with me anyway. On those occasions where I do pick one up, if they're not wiling to work after a km or so I just up it and shell them.

Enrico Gasparotto, is that you ?

Nah, I'm fatter than that

step83

Only issue I have with wheel suckers is when they do it on the sly you brake an either get a rear tap or a scream. If your going to wheelsuck then least have the courtesy to announce your arrival.

markhewitt1978

ben@31 wrote:

I was once cycling on my own along a long straight road that's several mile long, there was a strong headwind that day. I saw another cyclist in the distance, in front of me. I managed to catch him up easy and as he was struggling more than me, as soon as I overtook him I slowed right down so he could sit on my wheel. Then slower and slower... either he was refusing to sit on my wheel or didn't understand what I was trying to do?
.

I've had that several times, gradually catch someone up and then pull in and slow expected them to sit on, but they just drop back further! Perhaps they don't want to be the 'wheelsucker'?

Bobbinogs

Step83 wrote:

Only issue I have with wheel suckers is when they do it on the sly you brake an either get a rear tap or a scream. If your going to wheelsuck then least have the courtesy to announce your arrival.

Yeah, I usually shout out "on your wheel" when I get on someone's wheel, I always figure it is not only a courtesy but mutually beneficial (let's face it, if the chap in front brakes suddenly we could both end up on the deck). Doesn't always have the desired results though... I still remember being towards the end of a hilly 200k and fighting a headwind, came around a corner to see a cyclist not that far ahead of me so I worked hard and got onto his wheel, what a relief, not least for the warm feeling of a suffering shared and all that. Shouted "on your wheel", at which point he looked around fairly nonplussed...and then put the hammer down and dropped me completely. Maybe I should start a new thread...

neeb

Quite a complex issue, this. It goes without saying that if someone is really putting in little or no effort on the flat and not taking turns when they are able to, and then blasting up the hills at full gas, they probably need a polite talking to. But it's a sin that's far easier for skinny types to fall into, especially if they do a lot of riding on their own and maybe aren't so used to group riding. And there's a psychological element to it as well as a physical one.

In a group of intermediate ability It's easy to underestimate how different hills are for skinny types and those who are maybe quite powerful, but carrying a bit of extra weight. As a slim rider you can be putting out a constant effort on the flat, maybe even what feels like a very substantial effort, and then when the road turns up suddenly find that you're dropping everyone without upping your effort at all. So to stick at the pace of the group you basically need to soft pedal up the hills. Fine if you're used to it and know that's what's expected in the particular group you're in, but for someone who's inexperienced at group riding it's a weird thing to get used to at first.

Then there's the psychological element - if you're a skinny type, chances are you /enjoy/ hills - you know you're relatively better at them than you are at riding fast on the flat, so you approach them positively and find it easier to put out a given effort going up hill than on the flat. When you're riding solo you probably look forward to the hills and to some extent save your effort for attacking them, unlike the heavier rider who more likely dreads them and finds it more difficult to maintain the same effort on them. So when the skinny guy starts riding in a group he has to get used not only to going proportionately slower up hills, but also inverting his normal ingrained practice of putting more effort into them.

Just needs explaining in a good natured and sympathetic manner to the person concerned..

philbar72

Agree with Neeb. though often the message doesn't get through!

ddraver

True neeb, however it's not hard to tell when someone is "sprinting" or still "riding tempo" or however you might describe it. Its there gnashing of teeth etc...

JoostG

Really.....???? Some people are really pissed about others wheel sucking? I don't mind: I want to ride upfront where I can ride my pace and where I have the overview and can anticipate. In most of the cases I ride alone and I have to do all the work. So why not if others join.
Although I can be irritated when people wheel suck while I moving my 2 kids around on my 'cargo' bike. "Hello!, I have an extra 40kg with me, and fat tyres"..... So who am I to judge

markhewitt1978

neeb wrote:

Quite a complex issue, this. It goes without saying that if someone is really putting in little or no effort on the flat and not taking turns when they are able to, and then blasting up the hills at full gas, they probably need a polite talking to. But it's a sin that's far easier for skinny types to fall into, especially if they do a lot of riding on their own and maybe aren't so used to group riding. And there's a psychological element to it as well as a physical one.

Yes quite. A shorter rider who is also skinny will quite likely have substantially less power at their disposal than the taller and heavier rider so they may well be on their max on the flats just keeping up with the other riders who may be putting out 100W more than them. Then when it comes to the hills w/kg comes into play can they can handily outpace the riders who may be putting out more power but are a lot heavier.

That's not an excuse - but it may be a reason.

At 5'6" I have the potential to be the skinny hill climber type - unfortunately I'm not skinny

homers_double

I had a commuter version this morning, I overtook him and he hopped on. I did a few turns and he did one so was obviously a rider as well as a commuter as he clearly knew what he was doing and thanked me for the tow as I peeled off.

The disadvatage of being as aerodynamic as a breeze block I suppose.

fudgey

homers double wrote:

I had a commuter version this morning, I overtook him and he hopped on. I did a few turns and he did one so was obviously a rider as well as a commuter as he clearly knew what he was doing and thanked me for the tow as I peeled off.

The disadvatage of being as aerodynamic as a breeze block I suppose.

Must have read this thread

neeb

Once had a serious looking mountain biker with all the gear jump on my wheel and stick there for a couple of miles. He didn't take any turns obviously, but he did thank me afterwards. I was quite impressed he managed to hold my wheel actually, his rolling resistance was deafening and I was trying to drop him!

lancew

My system when I ride to work is simple, I will overtake you, if you can hold on then good luck to you. I'll just try to drop them until I get tired and if they're still there they can take a turn. (Or they've taken it back, nice.) If I latch on to someone else who's putting on a good pace I'm only there as long as I can't get past due to traffic or their sheer heroic pace, "chapeau and thanks for the tow." I have a nice commute though that has good visibility and bus lanes most of the way, so it's a quite a friendly one.

My one bug-bear though is that if you want to draft and it's raining you must have a proper rear mudguard, that's a pretty clear message.

vimfuego

Never used to be bothered about them - I ride my own ride so if someone wants to follow for a bit, frankly, meh. BUT, I got rear ended twice in the last year on my commute by drafters who figured that as they would've been happy to jump the red light / go for that small gap, then surely I would too huh? Neither of them gave me any indication they were there and were obviously 6 inches from my wheel at the time. Second event cost me a rear derailleur.
So now, once I clock someone is following (and I do shoulder check a bit) if I reckon they're too close for my liking I'll politely ask them to back off and either do as above (try to drop them) or slow up and drift left to force them to come through. Most people are fine but the odd one gets shirty or refuses to come through (got one down to 10mph from 18 the other day before he'd come through - then he hit the headwind, blew up and I dropped him anyway :-))

slowbike

Lancew wrote:

My one bug-bear though is that if you want to draft and it's raining you must have a proper rear mudguard, that's a pretty clear message.

So if you overtake me and I latch onto the back - good luck to me - but if it's raining I've got to have a proper rear mudguard .... why?!

markhewitt1978

neeb wrote:

Once had a serious looking mountain biker with all the gear jump on my wheel and stick there for a couple of miles. He didn't take any turns obviously, but he did thank me afterwards. I was quite impressed he managed to hold my wheel actually, his rolling resistance was deafening and I was trying to drop him!

Happened to me going along a railway path (tarmac), I was trying to give it a bit of effort in the drops as the path was clear of peds. Look back and there's this guy riding a scruffy mountain bike with jeans and a t-shirt, who before I know it sails past and away. Oh well

Mantas

if a wheel sucker not overtaking you it means that you have a good speed

DeVlaeminck

JoostG wrote:

Really.....???? Some people are really pissed about others wheel sucking? I don't mind: I want to ride upfront where I can ride my pace and where I have the overview and can anticipate. In most of the cases I ride alone and I have to do all the work. So why not if others join.
Although I can be irritated when people wheel suck while I moving my 2 kids around on my 'cargo' bike. "Hello!, I have an extra 40kg with me, and fat tyres"..... So who am I to judge

The thread seems to have gone off into the stranger who wheelsucks argument so no I don't mind that though personally I'd always say hello and if I couldn't come through and do a turn I'd probably make my apologies for my lack of sufficient athletic prowess !

It's not strangers that are the issue here - it's the club member, friend, acquaintance - who routinely sits in on group rides and then as soon as the road goes up leaves the people who have been towing he or she (though normally a he) and rides off into the distance to be rediscovered at the top enjoying a recovery and maybe finishing off a banana only for him to pedal off again as soon as the last struggler heaves himself deep in oxygen debt to the top of the incline and then retake his position mid bunch.

markhewitt1978

DeVlaeminck wrote:

It's not strangers that are the issue here - it's the club member, friend, acquaintance - who routinely sits in on group rides and then as soon as the road goes up leaves the people who have been towing he or she (though normally a he) and rides off into the distance to be rediscovered at the top enjoying a recovery and maybe finishing off a banana only for him to pedal off again as soon as the last struggler heaves himself deep in oxygen debt to the top of the incline and then retake his position mid bunch.

As an often oxygen debt struggler it does peeve me somewhat too. That the group goes on, those who don't need a rest are sat there at the top having a rest so just at point you need 2 minutes to get your breath back they're pushing on again.

surrey_commuter

vimfuego wrote:

Never used to be bothered about them - I ride my own ride so if someone wants to follow for a bit, frankly, meh. BUT, I got rear ended twice in the last year on my commute by drafters who figured that as they would've been happy to jump the red light / go for that small gap, then surely I would too huh? Neither of them gave me any indication they were there and were obviously 6 inches from my wheel at the time. Second event cost me a rear derailleur.
So now, once I clock someone is following (and I do shoulder check a bit) if I reckon they're too close for my liking I'll politely ask them to back off and either do as above (try to drop them) or slow up and drift left to force them to come through. Most people are fine but the odd one gets shirty or refuses to come through (got one down to 10mph from 18 the other day before he'd come through - then he hit the headwind, blew up and I dropped him anyway :-))

I to live in Epsom and find that past Morden people quite naturally take turns. The only ones who bother me are those on the ragged edge as i worry about their level of control.

dstev55

markhewitt1978 wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

It's not strangers that are the issue here - it's the club member, friend, acquaintance - who routinely sits in on group rides and then as soon as the road goes up leaves the people who have been towing he or she (though normally a he) and rides off into the distance to be rediscovered at the top enjoying a recovery and maybe finishing off a banana only for him to pedal off again as soon as the last struggler heaves himself deep in oxygen debt to the top of the incline and then retake his position mid bunch.

As an often oxygen debt struggler it does peeve me somewhat too. That the group goes on, those who don't need a rest are sat there at the top having a rest so just at point you need 2 minutes to get your breath back they're pushing on again.

This always happens in our group. As a hill climbing type I'm normally at the top first with another guy or two. As soon as the last person gets to us the other guys are like right let's crack on and always make the point of saying we need to give the last person to join us a bit of recovery time.

If you don't give them a breather you only end up dropping them again very quickly.

kingstonian

I see it as a badge of honour, normally it is me blowing out of my arse and needing every bit of help I can get

DavidJB

I actually get fucked off if they want to take a turn as it's messes up my power. If they want to sit there that is up to them but don't come to the bloody front and make my power droop by 40 watts,

SME

I had a person this evening sitting in my wake. He was very polite and asked if I minded since he was on a heavy bike. He turned off after a while and we both bid a 'cheerio'. I took it as a compliment.

itboffin

did a charity ride yesterday with my club and a lot of the local clubs, 40 miles on the front and not one other club took a turn even when politely requested to do some work.

Not a sausage!

Eventually another local club came through and shared the workload, but shame on the hundreds of riders that sat on for potentially the full 91 miles.