Giant Propel Brakes

The secret rider
The secret rider Posts: 812
edited November 2016 in Workshop
Hi All,

I rode my new Propel for the first time in the rain today and was rather shocked to find out the brakes did not work at all. Or rather worked but did not slow me down at all.

Running the full carbon rims and the pads that come with the bike, any ideas why the brakes had next to no performance in the wet ?

Any help appreciated as first new bike and first time on carbon rims.
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Comments

  • fenix
    fenix Posts: 5,437
    Carbon isn't great for braking in the wet. Alloy braking surfaces are much better.
  • geoffh73
    geoffh73 Posts: 85
    I have a Propel and the Giant brakes are a bit of a let down.
    I changed the pads to swiss stop and there was some improvement but they ain't brilliant.
    The only alternative I have seen is by Fourier's and they can be had for around £120 on ebay. Not cheap but worth it from what I have heard

    Geoff
  • Olas
    Olas Posts: 54
    Same, changed to Swissstop pads and much better in the wet. Though as with any carbon rim don't work at first but once the water is cleared off they are fine.
    Go for black rather than yellow unless you like yellow braking surfaces.
  • The secret rider
    The secret rider Posts: 812
    Hi thanks for the replies, glad to know it's not just my rims or pads then ( well it is but you know what i mean )

    Can I just check it is these pads you are speaking about ?

    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/swissstop-flash ... ke-blocks/
  • izza
    izza Posts: 1,561
    Which year Propel and model?

    They have changed the design and the later versions are close to the Fouriers in performance.
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    ime Campag red (available in shimano) or reynolds blue work the best in all conditions, but whatever design of brake, until the water film is removed, you wont have much braking at all, after that the performance is way above alloy rims.

    the move to the newer design, which you must have as you ve the latest all carbon rim? was to allow for wider rims.
  • The secret rider
    The secret rider Posts: 812
    It this years (2016) Giant Propel Advanced Pro 1

    Thanks
  • izza
    izza Posts: 1,561
    The Fourier outlay is not IMHO worth it anymore if you have the latest brakes.

    As with others, if you change pads, you void warranty so do't use yellow pads!!
  • Dan Walton
    Dan Walton Posts: 147
    Are they really that bad!?

    I had the chance to buy last years Pro 1 for the same money as this years Pro 2 but was put off by the carbon braking surface. Glad I chose the one I did as I can't afford an extra set of wheels at the moment to swap between wet and dry conditions.

    Also agree with the comments above regarding the current Speed Control brakes compared to Fouriers, the Fouriers were a good upgrade over the brakes on the earlier models as I believe they used to be carbon and a bit flexy.
  • The secret rider
    The secret rider Posts: 812
    I should hope the brakes are the newest version, it's a 2016 model so fingers crossed.

    I have spoke to a LBS who have explained that braking is different with a carbon rim over a alu rim so perhaps this is just something I need to get used too.

    In the rain however they are next to useless till the water is off them.
  • Baron Ban Ana
    Baron Ban Ana Posts: 39
    It's certainly a different feel when braking.

    Reviews I have read mentioned that brake performance in the wet iss really good but IMO they are terrible... close to dangerous. I love my Propel but I wont take it out in the rain on Carbon Rims anymore. In the dry the brakes are fantastic so I don't really mind!

    Interesting to read the comments about Fouriers not being that much of an improvement anymore. I've struggled to find any solid reviews on the Fouriers when people have upgraded from the latest calipers... at least I can stop looking at them now because they were a tad expensive!
  • The secret rider
    The secret rider Posts: 812
    Baron Ban Ana wrote:
    It's certainly a different feel when braking.

    Reviews I have read mentioned that brake performance in the wet iss really good but IMO they are terrible... close to dangerous. I love my Propel but I wont take it out in the rain on Carbon Rims anymore. In the dry the brakes are fantastic so I don't really mind!

    Interesting to read the comments about Fouriers not being that much of an improvement anymore. I've struggled to find any solid reviews on the Fouriers when people have upgraded from the latest calipers... at least I can stop looking at them now because they were a tad expensive!

    I went out in the dry, but got caught in a rain storm, first time on carbon rims approaching a juntion at Strava speed went to slow down and errr. . . . literally no brakes what so ever. Dry weather only for me !
  • Htclee
    Htclee Posts: 33
    Agree about the standard propel brakes being pretty poor. I've recently bought a new 2016 Propel SL. Coming from a trek Madone with ultegra the braking is terrible. When pulling the brake levers with a reasonable amount of force you can see the brake arms flexing - I believe this is the cause of the grabby feel under braking. I've ordered Fouriers and am having them fitted at the bikes 6 week service next week so will report back on the difference if anyone is interested..
  • Semantik
    Semantik Posts: 537
    Htclee wrote:
    Agree about the standard propel brakes being pretty poor. I've recently bought a new 2016 Propel SL. Coming from a trek Madone with ultegra the braking is terrible. When pulling the brake levers with a reasonable amount of force you can see the brake arms flexing - I believe this is the cause of the grabby feel under braking. I've ordered Fouriers and am having them fitted at the bikes 6 week service next week so will report back on the difference if anyone is interested..
    yes please
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Braking in wet is always going to be bad
    Braking on carbon is always going to be reduced vs alu.
    Propels have always had a reputation for less than great brakes.

    Add all 3 im suprised you aint still moving now.
  • Htclee
    Htclee Posts: 33
    Update - After 100 miles on the Fouriers I can comfortably say that they are noticeably better than the 2016 Giant Speedcontrol Ti breaks that they replaced. The soft lever feel and grabby breaking has gone, the Fouriers were much easier to get centered and adjust too. The biggest difference is that the flex that was noticeable in the break arms has gone, the Fouriers are much much stiffer and feel more like Dura-Ace calliper breaks. A worthy upgrade even at 200 odd quid. The SL models should come with these as standard. The quality of breaking now matches the rest of the Dura-Ace groupset on the bike.
  • Dan Walton
    Dan Walton Posts: 147
    That's interesting to know. I was under the impression that the Fouriers were only a worthwhile upgrade over the original carbon armed brakes that the Propels came with.
    I personally haven't any complaints over the stopping power of my SpeedControl Ti's, but I don't run carbon rims, so not sure that it's as much of an issue. I do find them to be a bit of a faff whenever wheels need to go in or out, more often than not the return spring will need tweaking!
  • Htclee
    Htclee Posts: 33
    Yeah, I imagine less of an improvement with Alloy wheels given the greater initial bite. I have the Giant SLR0 55mm deep carbon wheels.
  • The_Wicker_Man
    The_Wicker_Man Posts: 338
    Olas wrote:
    Go for black rather than yellow unless you like yellow braking surfaces.

    Unless using mavic rims, as mavic don't recommend the black ones (friend of mine works for mavic neutral service)
  • ciaptak85
    ciaptak85 Posts: 6
    Hello
    I have recently bought Giant Propel Advanced 2 Pro 2016. It came with Speedcontrol SL Titanium brakes. I have read a lot about propel brakes issues before pulled the triger and thought that problem has gone in 2016 bikes. Unfortunatelly I am strugling with brake setup:( I read that the biggest problem was with rubing due to weak spring. I have no problem with spring I guess cause my brakes always come back to orginial position after releasing the brake lever. I also have no problem with alligning them but found that one arm always touches the rim before the other and pushes (the outside arm, the one to which cable is attached). Actually the lazy arm starts moving after the second one touches the rim... I think it should not be like that cause it can lead to problems with untrue wheels. It hapens in both front and rear brake. No idea how to fix this... I disasembled everything and put it back together with no results.
    How is it in your Propel's? Maybe it is normal? How is it with fouriers?
    Please help me...

    P.S Sorry for my english.
  • Htclee
    Htclee Posts: 33
    To start with I would loosen the adjustment screws right off and then re-tighten them a half turn or so at a time to see if you can find a balance..
  • ciaptak85
    ciaptak85 Posts: 6
    I have done it many times. As mentioned before I have no problem with setting the brake arms perfectly center. Problem is that they do not work in the same time. In fact if i intenionaly set them up that lazy arm is much closer the rim than the other one... It does not change anything. This arm does nothing until second one hit the rim.
  • Htclee
    Htclee Posts: 33
    I wonder if the mounting bolt on that side has been overtightened?
  • ciaptak85
    ciaptak85 Posts: 6
    Checked. Even it is very lose it still hapens. . .
  • Htclee
    Htclee Posts: 33
    If you hand push from either side without the cable attached what happens?
  • ciaptak85
    ciaptak85 Posts: 6
    Both arms move without friction.
  • Htclee
    Htclee Posts: 33
    I can only suggest you take your bike to a Giant store as without seeing it I'm not sure how much further I can help
  • ciaptak85
    ciaptak85 Posts: 6
    edited November 2016
    Ok. I managed to make it work! I had to unscrew mounting bold from lazy brake arm side. But I had to do it a lot! I have 2mm gap between frame and brake. I am not sure it is correct. Maybe there is something wrong with cables?

    Edit Sorted out everything. There are two position of cable. In that closer to rear axle everything works fine with mounting bolt properly screen. Problem is when we switch to second cable position. It was supposed to be for quick change of wheel with different rims width but actualy does not work in correct way. Cable has to be in some angle if not arms will not touch the rim same time.
  • Htclee
    Htclee Posts: 33
    That's definitely not right - so the movement is now free when you've unscrewed the mounting bolt? Can you see anything fouling it?
  • Semantik
    Semantik Posts: 537
    it's all in the spring tension adjustment screws which take a 2mm allen key. They need very fine adjustments to get the pads hitting the rim simultaneously and sitting equal distance from the rim. Trial and error i'm afraid. Shop where I bought mine from had no idea what they were doing. had to set them up properly myself.Just needs a bit of finesse. They are pretty good brakes when set up properly. A bit grabby but good stooping power.

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