What would you do if you thought your bike was too big?

MikeBrew

mamil314 wrote:

As Carbonator says, we will find out. I have most of bits, just recently replaced Praxis adaptor for Rotor, silly bottom cable guide was in the way. All that's left is to figure out which Cane Creek headset i need for the blasted CAAD10 2015 thing and i can start playing with fit.

OP, sorry for hijack!

Did it not come with a headset ?

MikeBrew

Carbonator wrote:

That's about as spot on as you can get in the MY advice world.

Evidently....

mamil314

MikeBrew wrote:

mamil314 wrote:

As Carbonator says, we will find out. I have most of bits, just recently replaced Praxis adaptor for Rotor, silly bottom cable guide was in the way. All that's left is to figure out which Cane Creek headset i need for the blasted CAAD10 2015 thing and i can start playing with fit.

OP, sorry for hijack!

Did it not come with a headset ?

Some dodgy FSA job was included

Anonymous

MikeBrew wrote:

Carbonator wrote:

That's about as spot on as you can get in the MY advice world.

Evidently....

So you push the seat forward until you can reach the bars then?
Guess you could always flip the setback seatpost and make it setforward if you want. :shock:

Personally I would get a smaller frame but each to their own.

MikeBrew

Carbonator wrote:

MikeBrew wrote:

Carbonator wrote:

That's about as spot on as you can get in the MY advice world.

Evidently....

So you push the seat forward until you can reach the bars then?
Guess you could always flip the setback seatpost and make it setforward if you want. :shock:

Personally I would get a smaller frame but each to their own.

Absolutely, that probably is what you would do. But would you do that before you were 100% sure that the frame was "too big" ? Is Solboy 100% sure that it is ? Are you 100% sure that his bike is "too big" for him ? If so how could you be ? Have you seen it ? Have you seen him on it? If not then wouldn't it seem a bit unconsidered for you first comment to be "sell it"... ?
A very small adjustment - a cm or less- can make a big difference to how a bike feels. An in line seat post, a shorter reach set of bars - little things.
Maybe you've jumped a just few steps ? You don't know any of the factors well enough to, out-of-hand, dismiss the idea that some minor adjustments MIGHT make it "spot-on" (to use your favourite idiom), and instead just blurt "sell it", do you ? Or perhaps you have crystal balls.......

redvision

MikeBrew wrote:

Absolutely, that probably is what you would do. But would you do that before you were 100% sure that the frame was "too big" ? Is Solboy 100% sure that it is ? Are you 100% sure that his bike is "too big" for him ? If so how could you be ? Have you seen it ? Have you seen him on it? If not then wouldn't it seem a bit unconsidered for you first comment to be "sell it"... ?
A very small adjustment - a cm or less- can make a big difference to how a bike feels. An in line seat post, a shorter reach set of bars - little things.
Maybe you've jumped a just few steps ? You don't know any of the factors well enough to, out-of-hand, dismiss the idea that some minor adjustments MIGHT make it "spot-on" (to use your favourite idiom), and instead just blurt "sell it", do you ? Or perhaps you have crystal balls.......

Thing is if you adjust things too much the feel and handling of the bike changes. A 90mm stem is the shortest I would ever want to go.
Its also not always a great idea to have the saddle as far forward as possible.

OP, as I mentioned before, get back to the store and discuss it with them. Push for a full bike fit and if they do not provide that service then find somewhere which does, making it clear to the original place of purchase that if the size is wrong you will need it swapping.

If it's a decent shop they will help you get it sorted.

Anonymous

I only read first line of the first of your two posts.

As I would never use saddle to make a bike fit there was no point in reading any more.

I might read the rest another time.
Maybe when the OP and mamil have come to a decision.

bmxboy10

Mine came with the Cannondale headset.

MikeBrew

Carbonator wrote:

I only read first line of the first of your two posts.

As I would never use saddle to make a bike fit there was no point in reading any more.

I might read the rest another time.
Maybe when the OP and mamil have come to a decision.

So to paraphrase, essentially what you're saying is


On the bright side, you appear to have been cured of your LOL-ing so I guess at least it's a step in the right direction. :shock: Little steps..........

DanTe1977

Singleton wrote:

MikeBrew wrote:

mamil314 wrote:

Evans bike 'fit' worries me, they picked a 56 Caad10 for me based on standover clearance
My other bikes are 54, but, i guess, i could be between sizes at 5'11 and '34 inseam. If this frame builds up too big, I shall be writing a letter.

Really can't see you wanting a 54. I'm a very similar height and ride a 56 CAAD10 with 120 stem; it's a purr-fect fit.

I'm about 5'11" and ride a CAAD10 56 and a CAAD12 56.

Just as an aside, how'd you find the difference between the two bikes? Is there any?
My CAAD10 has gone back to shop on a warranty job after the chainstay weld sheared clean in two whilst riding.
There's talk of it getting replaced with a CAAD12 if the 10's have run out.

As a result of all the petty squabbling I've sort of lost track of what's going on in this thread.
Did someone mention Condor and bike fitting?
I bought a Fratello about 5 years ago. They sold me a bike that was a size too big. Set my saddle height 1.5cm higher than it is now which lead to a nasty case of patella tendinitis. When I went in to see what was what I got 'a load of sneery reluctance to accept any wrongdoing, they then 'cut me a deal' on an expensive innersole system that would apparantly sort it all out, it didn't, have since been told by someone who actually knows what they're talking about I.e a proper bike fitter that those innersoles were doing absolutely zero.
There's a couple of good guys at Condor but there's also some real pratts who have no idea what they're doing..
My experience at Condor was marginally better than that with Canyon so that tells you just how little I rate them..

Anonymous

MikeBrew wrote:

Carbonator wrote:

MikeBrew wrote:

Carbonator wrote:

That's about as spot on as you can get in the MY advice world.

Evidently....

So you push the seat forward until you can reach the bars then?
Guess you could always flip the setback seatpost and make it setforward if you want. :shock:

Personally I would get a smaller frame but each to their own.

Absolutely, that probably is what you would do. But would you do that before you were 100% sure that the frame was "too big" ? Is Solboy 100% sure that it is ? Are you 100% sure that his bike is "too big" for him ? If so how could you be ? Have you seen it ? Have you seen him on it? If not then wouldn't it seem a bit unconsidered for you first comment to be "sell it"... ?
A very small adjustment - a cm or less- can make a big difference to how a bike feels. An in line seat post, a shorter reach set of bars - little things.
Maybe you've jumped a just few steps ? You don't know any of the factors well enough to, out-of-hand, dismiss the idea that some minor adjustments MIGHT make it "spot-on" (to use your favourite idiom), and instead just blurt "sell it", do you ? Or perhaps you have crystal balls.......

Read the thread title you muppet.
Thats what the OP asked!!!

You seem to have deep personal issues with oversize bikes lol (sorry, they are back)

I don't know 100% that his bike is too big and really do not care that much TBH.
I would not sell my bike before I was 100% sure, but I would when I was, and that would be way before trying odd measures to make it fit.
To me (and a lot of people) its too big if I have to consider doing them

He feels it is and asked for advice on selling or making it into Frankenbike.
I advised that the former would be his best bet, but he can do what ever the fcuk he likes.

Moan at him about it if you have a problem with him not trying anything and everything to make it fit.

You adjust a saddle to fit you, on a frame which fits you.
You do not use it to make the frame fit you, but you can if you want.

An inline seatpost would probably work well on a bike thats too big and may actually put the saddle in the correct position over the cranks, but it sounds like the correct saddle position is not even being considered.

Please do exactly as Mikebrew says OP and let us know how you get on.
Buy an inline seatpost, push the saddle right to the front of it, get a 50mm stem (or shorter if he says) and some really short reach bars.

Oh and get some really bright lights too, because even if it feels ok to ride, you might find you only want to take it out at night.

MikeBrew

Nothing personal... Just find BS and lazy thinking irritating. And your knee-jerk "sell it" was about as lazy as it gets...Only read one line eh ? I see.........

bmxboy10

DanTe1977 wrote:

Singleton wrote:

MikeBrew wrote:

mamil314 wrote:

Evans bike 'fit' worries me, they picked a 56 Caad10 for me based on standover clearance
My other bikes are 54, but, i guess, i could be between sizes at 5'11 and '34 inseam. If this frame builds up too big, I shall be writing a letter.

Really can't see you wanting a 54. I'm a very similar height and ride a 56 CAAD10 with 120 stem; it's a purr-fect fit.

I'm about 5'11" and ride a CAAD10 56 and a CAAD12 56.

Just as an aside, how'd you find the difference between the two bikes? Is there any?
My CAAD10 has gone back to shop on a warranty job after the chainstay weld sheared clean in two whilst riding.
There's talk of it getting replaced with a CAAD12 if the 10's have run out.

As a result of all the petty squabbling I've sort of lost track of what's going on in this thread.
Did someone mention Condor and bike fitting?
I bought a Fratello about 5 years ago. They sold me a bike that was a size too big. Set my saddle height 1.5cm higher than it is now which lead to a nasty case of patella tendinitis. When I went in to see what was what I got 'a load of sneery reluctance to accept any wrongdoing, they then 'cut me a deal' on an expensive innersole system that would apparantly sort it all out, it didn't, have since been told by someone who actually knows what they're talking about I.e a proper bike fitter that those innersoles were doing absolutely zero.
There's a couple of good guys at Condor but there's also some real pratts who have no idea what they're doing..
My experience at Condor was marginally better than that with Canyon so that tells you just how little I rate them..

The bike in question is a Condor and on reflection I feel a bit short changed by the fit process but the bike is still a nice bit of kit and I am at this stage unlikely to sell it. The fit consisted of me telling the guy the size bike I rode at the time (a 55cm Cinelli) and he set the jig up for the 55.5 Condor frame. Straight away it felt too long and I told the guy so he said a 90mm stem was acceptable and changed the stem accordingly. The fit lasted about 15 minutes and I was on the jig for say 5 minutes in total. I cant recall the bars that were on the jig but I have fitted the shortest reach I could find but notice the 785 levers look long compared to say 105 levers and this may not be helping.

The two bikes are different and I prefer the ride of the Caad at the moment as its just more lively and responsive but the Condor is not a race bike so that is to be expected. The weight difference is also noticeable.

Its not good to hear about the frame you have sheering but that said if you get the 12 that may be a fair outcome.

rolf_f

So, assuming that everyone now agrees that the saddle-bottom bracket positioning shouldn't be tampered with to force a fit, you are left with the stem, bars and shifters and I reckon you are thinking the right way with those.

So I would try to get as close a match to my other bikes - so first of all, saddle to bar distance. That you control by the stem alone. Personally, I reckon you can definitely go shorter than 90mm on the stem. I suspect you could get used to a stem half that length; what feels weird to start with quickly feels fine with use. If you can get the saddle to bars distance to match the other bikes, they you have done all you need to. If that distance is still too big, even with a silly short stem, then although reach to the tops is as good as it can be, you can still improve the reach to hoods and drops.

So this is about the bars - have you definitely got as compact a bar as you can find? Even changing to Campag shifters (assuming you aren't on them already!) might help in a small way as they seem to be shorter reach than the alternatives.

If you have a friendly LBS to borrow a stem or two from, the first step really shouldn't be a bother to experiment with.

DanTe1977

solboy10 wrote:

DanTe1977 wrote:

Singleton wrote:

MikeBrew wrote:

mamil314 wrote:

Evans bike 'fit' worries me, they picked a 56 Caad10 for me based on standover clearance
My other bikes are 54, but, i guess, i could be between sizes at 5'11 and '34 inseam. If this frame builds up too big, I shall be writing a letter.

Really can't see you wanting a 54. I'm a very similar height and ride a 56 CAAD10 with 120 stem; it's a purr-fect fit.

I'm about 5'11" and ride a CAAD10 56 and a CAAD12 56.

Just as an aside, how'd you find the difference between the two bikes? Is there any?
My CAAD10 has gone back to shop on a warranty job after the chainstay weld sheared clean in two whilst riding.
There's talk of it getting replaced with a CAAD12 if the 10's have run out.

As a result of all the petty squabbling I've sort of lost track of what's going on in this thread.
Did someone mention Condor and bike fitting?
I bought a Fratello about 5 years ago. They sold me a bike that was a size too big. Set my saddle height 1.5cm higher than it is now which lead to a nasty case of patella tendinitis. When I went in to see what was what I got 'a load of sneery reluctance to accept any wrongdoing, they then 'cut me a deal' on an expensive innersole system that would apparantly sort it all out, it didn't, have since been told by someone who actually knows what they're talking about I.e a proper bike fitter that those innersoles were doing absolutely zero.
There's a couple of good guys at Condor but there's also some real pratts who have no idea what they're doing..
My experience at Condor was marginally better than that with Canyon so that tells you just how little I rate them..

The bike in question is a Condor and on reflection I feel a bit short changed by the fit process but the bike is still a nice bit of kit and I am at this stage unlikely to sell it. The fit consisted of me telling the guy the size bike I rode at the time (a 55cm Cinelli) and he set the jig up for the 55.5 Condor frame. Straight away it felt too long and I told the guy so he said a 90mm stem was acceptable and changed the stem accordingly. The fit lasted about 15 minutes and I was on the jig for say 5 minutes in total. I cant recall the bars that were on the jig but I have fitted the shortest reach I could find but notice the 785 levers look long compared to say 105 levers and this may not be helping.

The two bikes are different and I prefer the ride of the Caad at the moment as its just more lively and responsive but the Condor is not a race bike so that is to be expected. The weight difference is also noticeable.

Its not good to hear about the frame you have sheering but that said if you get the 12 that may be a fair outcome.

I think it's scandalous that Condor keep plugging away with the whole 'bike fit' thing as a sales point. My experience was very similar, the sales guy and 'bike fitter' was a proper bell end, didn't have a clue what he was doing. The rot starts at the top in that place.
The CAAD was a funny one, just rolling along, heard a click, checked and the weld had gone straight through at join to the dropout.
I'm not sure I want a 12? Different post size, can't use my praxis works converter, could be a hassle swapping the bits frame to frame..

MikeBrew

Rolf F wrote:

So, assuming that everyone now agrees that the saddle-bottom bracket positioning shouldn't be tampered with to force a fit

Obviously, in general terms that is absolutely right. However, from what has been said about the quality of the original fit in this particular instance, can it be taken for granted that that saddle to BB relationship is correct as it stands ?
As the money is already spent and the frame bought, surely it makes sense to get the fit redone from scratch -including saddle BB relationship - by a reliable third party fitter, so that the OP knows properly what he's dealing with before thinking about selling it on or tackling the retailer for a refund/replacement. Also, here is still a chance that the OP's issues are purely down to the, already mentioned, poor original fitting.
If it's the wrong size, it's likely that taking it straight back to where it was bought might well result in a compromise fit, as they are likely to want to defend their original advice and avoid having to replace it. Going back to the retailer with the back-up of a third party professional saying it's the wrong size is going to help in any argument to get it replaced.

DanTe1977

If my experience with Condor is anything to go by they will do everything possible to wriggle out of any conceivable wrong doing.

svetty

Can't resist sticking my ha'pennyworth into this one....

Assuming the saddle setback and height are correct (i.e. knee to pedal axle relationship is reasonable) then if a 56 frame makes the OP feel stretched using a 90mm stem then it is too large. No amount of bodging will address this properly. Short stems cannot compensate for over-long top tubes adequately when a shorter bike is really what's needed.

I'd definitely go back to the shop, explain your concerns and if you have been 'mis-sold' insist on another frame. The alternative is riding for years on a bike that fundamentally doesn't fit.

Of course sometimes a rider can become accustomed to a poor fit on their old bike and then when properly fitted might feel 'stretched' when he has simply become used to a cramped position on a 'too short' bike. Whether the new position is then 'correct' or not becomes a matter of opinion as to what constitutes 'correct'.

Mamil314 needs a 56 CAAD btw......;)

Anonymous

Are you able to clarify your knee to pedal axle relationship Solboy?

I guess the bike fit could have been done sooooo badly that the guy had you sitting way further back than you should be, but if thats the case then I can only think he did not check/adjust the saddle at all, and just let you sit on it as it was.

If he did check/adjust it (even if he did a pi55 poor job) then you do not need an inline seatpost to sort it out.

If he did not check/adjust the saddle then there is little point in him doing anything else, so its a non bike fit!

MikeBrew

Svetty wrote:

Mamil314 needs a 56 CAAD btw......;)

Without a shadow of a doubt

Anonymous

MikeBrew wrote:

Svetty wrote:

Mamil314 needs a 56 CAAD btw......;)

Without a shadow of a doubt

Wow, online bike sizing with only minimal text to go on.
I think you guys are onto something big here.

Only thing is, if you are correct (which I do not doubt), all his other bikes sound a bit small.

homers_double

I think what this thread needs is a few pictures, maybe one or two showing pedal strokes, and a few showing the rider (OP) in the drops and on the hoods.

Then we can all slate the background and then possibly get onto some practical advice on the size?

Bobbinogs

homers double wrote:

I think what this thread needs is a few pictures, maybe one or two showing pedal strokes, and a few showing the rider (OP) in the drops and on the hoods.

Then we can all slate the background and then possibly get onto some practical advice on the size?

To be fair, we usually just slate the background although I like your optimism that we might possibly get onto the advice bit.

rolf_f

MikeBrew wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

So, assuming that everyone now agrees that the saddle-bottom bracket positioning shouldn't be tampered with to force a fit

Obviously, in general terms that is absolutely right. However, from what has been said about the quality of the original fit in this particular instance, can it be taken for granted that that saddle to BB relationship is correct as it stands ?
As the money is already spent and the frame bought, surely it makes sense to get the fit redone from scratch -including saddle BB relationship - by a reliable third party fitter, so that the OP knows properly what he's dealing with before thinking about selling it on or tackling the retailer for a refund/replacement. Also, here is still a chance that the OP's issues are purely down to the, already mentioned, poor original fitting.

True enough - but if you do have a bike already that you have reason to believe fits you - then the first thing to do is probably to see if you can duplicate that fit on the new bike. It should be possible to get the saddle - bb relationship copied from one to the other with the aid of a bit of trigonometry or sticks and string depending on taste!

MikeBrew

Solboy wrote:

The fit consisted of me telling the guy the size bike I rode at the time (a 55cm Cinelli) and he set the jig up for the 55.5 Condor frame.

Bearing in mind that different manufacturers list their nominal frame sizes based on different frame tubes(usually ST or TT), do you know if the 55.5 refers to the top tube length ?
The 54 CAAD 10 has 54.5 TT so , on the face of it, the Condor is a cm longer ....?

tim_wand

The CAAD was a funny one, just rolling along, heard a click, checked and the weld had gone straight through at join to the dropout.
I'm not sure I want a 12? Different post size, can't use my praxis works converter, could be a hassle swapping the bits frame to frame..

Will Cannondale Warranty a frame were you ve changed the Bottom Bracket Standard? I only ask because I ve take the BB30 out of my Evo six and fitted a Wheels Manufacturing Convertor to run Shimano ( I know why would you ? I had the groupset and was worried about anecdotes of squeaky BB30 BB's ) So I would be interested to know if they would honour a claim for frame failure, especially at a point so close to the BB.

dj58

Bobbinogs wrote:

homers double wrote:

I think what this thread needs is a few pictures, maybe one or two showing pedal strokes, and a few showing the rider (OP) in the drops and on the hoods.

Then we can all slate the background and then possibly get onto some practical advice on the size?

To be fair, we usually just slate the background although I like your optimism that we might possibly get onto the advice bit.

The last time the OP posted photo's of his bike he got slated for some aspects of his build. Solboy10 you must be doubly miffed if the frame is too big seeing as you paid extra for the custom paint job?

bmxboy10

DJ58 wrote:

Bobbinogs wrote:

homers double wrote:

I think what this thread needs is a few pictures, maybe one or two showing pedal strokes, and a few showing the rider (OP) in the drops and on the hoods.

Then we can all slate the background and then possibly get onto some practical advice on the size?

To be fair, we usually just slate the background although I like your optimism that we might possibly get onto the advice bit.

The last time the OP posted photo's of his bike he got slated for some aspects of his build. Solboy10 you must be doubly miffed if the frame is too big seeing as you paid extra for the custom paint job?

Yes as the loss will be more significant because of the paint job cost. I did get slated but in fairness it was all from the same member. Thanks for all the input will try to post some pics.

MikeBrew

Well that is one hell of a layback seatpost. 3T stylus 25 (2.5cm layback) ? If it is, depending on where your knee is in relation to the pedal axle with the crank arm @ 3 0'clock, a seatpost with less layback might well sort out your reach problems. What length crank arms do you have on there ?
Problem with that model is that the size options are a little far apart, the next size down being a nominal 52 with 53.5 top tube. Your CAAD 10 sits roughly in the middle of the 52 and 55 Fratellos for TT length i.e (52F) 53.7TT - (CAAD10)54.5TT- (F55)55.5TT
The other thing is that you'd need a hell of a lot of steerer spacers on a 52 to maintain your (pictured) saddle-to-handlebar drop.

The reach (BB to Steerer) on a 55 fratello is very similar to a 54 CAAD10 @ 38.6 and 38.3 respectively. This suggests that you could bring the saddle forward on the Fratello and still get a saddle to BB relationship similar to that of the CAAD.

bristolpete

Just to chime in, I end up with inline with what ever I ride, so long that it is available. Short legs warrant an inline seatpost, never discount it. From the horses mouth Andy Pruitt, the BG fit guru. Ultimately, some body geo is not ideal for bike riding I suppose so you have to work with what you have got. For me, 54cm bikes are always too small, 56 fit with my unique fit though the answer is custom I am not interested in spending money like that. Yet...!