Getting punted at races as training? kermesses in belgium

sven_jto

By a (un)fortunate turn of events I've ended up In Belgium and have the ability to race kermesses twice a week (usually wed/sat and sunday) I just did the first proper kermesse of the year and got punted after 20 mins and a DNF. The field got split and everyone was pushing as hard as possible and I think that's one of the reasons why I got punted so bad.
I got quite demotivated. Half the field DNFed(but I think I'm the 2nd one to dnf though). I've had a shit winter working hard at uni and finding excuses not to train.

I really want to race the Kermesses, finnish and probably be competitive. Last year I did one kermesse when I was out of form in the off season(last race of the year) and I survived for a hour and a bit. I've noticed kermesses are characterized by crit like efforts where every 30-60 sec you sprint at about 800-1000 watts then you keep hard in the saddle for about 20more sec. Basically first 40 mins of the kermesse are the hardest, they last for about 2:45 mins(100-120kms at 42+km/h)
My Question is Do you recon it would be better the stop going to Kermis races and focus on my training only, or try and do 2 times a week and get punted, hopefully gaining fitness and being able to survive more each time?

Also anyone give me tips on my focus on training. My periodization is quite shit this year.. My FTP is around 3.8w/kg right now(It was around 4.4 last year at peak) and my anaerobic(1min) and vo2(5min) max powers have suffered quite a bit. I'm doing training camp soon where I hope I'll boost my ftp a bit...
What do you recon my training focus should be and do you recon I have a chance?(I can do about 15hours a week on the bike)

jgsi

Just keep racing and ride your bike in between.. you'll get better .. you've probably ended up with an opportunity for great training and fun... worry much less about the numbers game.

sven_jto

Yeah, I always look at the bigger picture but I gave an Idea for more specialized coaches on here. What I was worried about is that if I only survived 20 mins i don't think it's much training, so if I keep getting punted at races I don't get much training benefit.

maryka

If you only survived 20 min, then go for a 2hr ride afterwards!

jgsi

I was sort of hinting that your interval training is dealt with by your racing... and 4 hour road work on the days between to build up that lost stamina.... and lets be honest, how else are you going to fill your days in Belgium anyway?

sven_jto

Hahaha, well there's university... and work... I've heard a lot of folks complaining that since they train hard for track racing in during winter they miss out on a lot of their base work... so are actually slowing down their road preparation for the season. I guess I'm gonna be racing the same thing... so what better prep, unless anyone has anything to dissagree or to add what can you say about my second question?

cyco2

Just had a read of what the races are about and if you're not an exceptional crit style rider I cannot see how you can get anywhere this year. Are you able to train with other riders? Those other riders could have been doing it for years and supplement their income from it. That's how good they've become. I have raced a lot with riders beyond my capability and bit by bit by hanging in there and adjusting my training to suite the races I have caught up on some of them.I keep hearing things about Belgium riders and I would never like to ride against them. So do what you can.

giropaul

Which races are you riding? There are several federations in Belgium, depending on where you are. Some federations are a bit easier for the younger rider, because the big hitters go to the UCI affiliated races ( that's where the bigger money is). Google "Belgian cycling selection" for some calendars of the other " free" federations - or look in the paper for WAOD, VWF etc.
PS for us oldies, the big hitters move to the age related free federation races as there are very few UCI affiliated races for vets - just like the UK!

sven_jto

Hi, guys just a follow up, Did a 1 more kermis where I held on for a whole hour, then training camp in spain for 10 days... Came back and power numbers are looking a lot better(got a very fast increase in my VO2max and a moderate increase to FTP). Now hanging on in races. Next objective. How do I finish top 20?
Seriously that's my goal for the season . Basically what I've found out is that you need good vo2max power to stay in group(I've always had high natural Vo2max power but never supplemented that with enough training to increase my FTP)
So what I've noticed is races here run away after an hour and a half and it's 70% a breakaway game of a few strongmen.
If you want to survive you need high Vo2max and a bit of anaerobic power, racing will hurt but it's manageable.
If you wanna perform well you need a high V02max and FTP in order to attack and then stay away in break.

So I guess my question is, is there a shortcut to a high FTP if you have naturally high V02max?
So you can get an idea of my power profile I have 435 5 min power and 330ftp. Haven't measured 5sec sprint but it's around 1400 and I recon 1 min power is about 620+ Last year It was about 730 mid-season... Weight is 81, 23years old
I'm doing WielerbondVlaanderen races... usually 1.12B UCI category... Elite without contract and U23

iPete

I can't add much except as already said, use the races as interval sessions and get some quality riding done in-between.
You have all the tools at your disposal and if you can afford it, have you considered a coach? They should be able to go through all of your data to help answer that FTP/vo2max question.

Is there room to drop in weight without compromising power? As a 66kg rider your figures look good but your w/KG makes them OK.

sven_jto

I'm not 66 I'm 81 I would be afraid my sprint power would suffer dramatically if I drop more weight... I'm quite tall. My normal is usually 85. Races here a really flat, like 200 meters of climbing per 120kms of racing most of the time, but it's a bit like a strange elongated crit circuit usually(every 1-2kilometers there's a corner, laps are 9kms). Do you recon dropping more weight will help me? I doubt I'll become much more aero

iPete

I only ask because I'm 66kg and on paper have a higher w/KG but if you're already trim and the races flat then a coach, even a virtual coach who can review your workout data might be a good idea.

06dhewett

Hi Sven,

As someone who's done lots of 1.12B kermesses in Belgium my advice would be to worry less about the power numbers and focus more on positioning and bunch skills. The races get exponentially harder the further back you are, if you're at the front and can stay there you avoid having to sprint out of corners repeatedly which culminates in you getting dropped.
There's heaps of advice I can give you on the racing, but also your training (it sounds like you're in need of significant guidance, though you're clearly highly motivated which is a great start), as part of the coaching services that I offer. More info here: dhcyclingcoaching.wordpress.com

Good luck with everything!

Dodger747

Another Belgian resident here.

As a lightweight climber I am laughably bad at kermesses, but I'd echo the advice above. Bully your way to the front and keep fighting to stay there. Simply think of it like elastic, at the back you're going to get stretched more and more and eventually snap. Plus depending on the field, you can be 50-100m behind the leaders just on your position in the bunch.

Your power [on the face of it] does look a bit low to be competitive for that type of racing. Try going down to the Ardennes for some more hilly races where w/kg make more of a difference...