Pedal Based Power Meters

seventenths

Hi

I would like to add a power meter to my bike, mostly as a result of becoming very 'fond' of the metric as a result of using my smart trainer over the winter with Trainerroad training plans etc.

My best/summer bike has a Campagnolo carbon/Record groupset and I use Look Keo 2 Max Carbon pedals.

I am thinking that pedal based power is the best option for me, given that I would like to swap the pedals to my winter bike / perhaps turbo bike over the winter; so only a couple of changes per year.

Which leaves me with the Garmin Vector 2 or Powertap P1 systems. I curently use a Garmin 800 head unit.

I have spent hours reading reviews and forums and obviousuly some of the information is somewhat out of date given firmware updates etc.

Do people on this forum have current experience of the two systems?

I think I will have to tweak my saddle height with either system given my current pedal stack height. I would prefer to keep using my Keo cleats, so the Vector 2's would make sense............but there are many reports of issues with their readings......and the P1's get glowing reviews on Wiggle (but use differant cleats....).

Is there a current view either way?

Thank you

David

fenix

Have you checked out DCRainmakers reports ?

seventenths

I have, thank you.

He likes the P1's, which TBH I think is where most people are pointing.

Albeit I note this months Pro Cycling was not keen on the P1's at all........but how impartial are they.....

I just wonder as at March / current firmware's are people finding the Vector's consitent etc.....

KevinA

I recently bought the garmin pedals as they got good reviews and for me the selling point was that they are easy to transfer over to a different bike.

I think any power meter will be as accurate as each other, there is a video on youtube where someone compares 4 of them at the same time and they are all extremely close.

Easy to install and configerate with my Garmin 800.

redvision

I have the Powertap P1s and they are absolutely awesome.
They are so easy to install and require absolutely no configuration or anything - apart from a calibration offset before each ride.

The data is consistent (if a little depressing :oops:) and provides all the info you would want.

Had them since September. I did have to send the first set back due to a gritty bearing, but the replacements were fine. I only used them a handful of times before last month (due to injury) but they have been absolutely perfect. Battery life is pretty much bang on what PT claim - 60 hours if using Lithium batteries. I have also found that normal Alkaline last about 25 hours, rechargeable batteries are considerably shorter though.

Some people expressed concerns about ground clearance but that really hasn't been an issue and after using shimano spds for years the switch to keo style has been surprisingly easy.

My only complaint is with PT themselves as there is currently no Android app, only Apple. Makes it a real pain to update them. PT are apparently working on the Android App but they have been saying that for months! :evil:

OP if you get these you really won't be disappointed.

Grill

KevinA wrote:

I recently bought the garmin pedals as they got good reviews and for me the selling point was that they are easy to transfer over to a different bike.

I think any power meter will be as accurate as each other, there is a video on youtube where someone compares 4 of them at the same time and they are all extremely close.

Easy to install and configerate with my Garmin 800.

No. My Stages data is comical next to my P2M data.

chewywahid

P1 Pedal owner here and I also have the Gamin 800.

I bought a set in Sept/Oct, but had to send them back because of issues with the right pedal not communicating properly. Apart from having to get them replaced with a new pair, I think they are an excellent training tool and so convenient to change between bikes. I have 5 bikes, running SRAM and Shimano with one crank set a different length to the others. So, my requirements were quite specific. Moreover, I didn't want to mess around with torquing the pedals and I wanted dual-side power measurement (49%/51%) too.

They are pricey and don't have an app for android, which really irritates me no end!

Cheers, Chewy

chewywahid

PS these cleats are exactly the same as the ones supplied with the P1s. I do use the standard Keo cleats at the moment before discovering the cheaper and exact options.

http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/xpedo-thrust-7-cleats-fixed-id82466.html#info

londoncommuter

What's with the pricing though? With all of the "cheaper" powermeters coming to market, they can still charge £1k and sell out everywhere.

They do sound great though.

chewywahid

londoncommuter wrote:

What's with the pricing though? With all of the "cheaper" powermeters coming to market, they can still charge £1k and sell out everywhere.

They do sound great though.

I think wiggle sold them for £850 or similar, but agree they are expensive compared to where the market is going. I suppose you're paying for the brand, convenience, product support etc..

redvision

ChewyWahid wrote:

PS these cleats are exactly the same as the ones supplied with the P1s. I do use the standard Keo cleats at the moment before discovering the cheaper and exact options.

http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/xpedo-thrust-7-cleats-fixed-id82466.html#info

These are also exactly the same
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobi ... prod110505

seventenths

Thank you for the replies.

I don't think there is an obvious cheaper option, given that I am using carbon crank Campagnolo and don't want to change my wheels for ones with a power hub.

Feel free to suggest if I've missed an option?

If new wheels/hubs are out, that leaves cranksets which are more expensive and Stages/4iii don't work with carbon campy.

I am going to have a massive ebay sale of unused 'toys' to fund these!

londoncommuter

seventenths wrote:

Thank you for the replies.

I don't think there is an obvious cheaper option, given that I am using carbon crank Campagnolo and don't want to change my wheels for ones with a power hub.

Feel free to suggest if I've missed an option?

If new wheels/hubs are out, that leaves cranksets which are more expensive and Stages/4iii don't work with carbon campy.

I am going to have a massive ebay sale of unused 'toys' to fund these!

What were your thoughts on the much cheaper Favero?

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2015/09/fave ... eview.html

calbelfield

londoncommuter wrote:

seventenths wrote:

Thank you for the replies.

I don't think there is an obvious cheaper option, given that I am using carbon crank Campagnolo and don't want to change my wheels for ones with a power hub.

Feel free to suggest if I've missed an option?

If new wheels/hubs are out, that leaves cranksets which are more expensive and Stages/4iii don't work with carbon campy.

I am going to have a massive ebay sale of unused 'toys' to fund these!

What were your thoughts on the much cheaper Favero?

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2015/09/fave ... eview.html

+1 for the BePro. I've had the single sided option for a couple of months, and been really impressed. Even the dual sided option is worth considering for a similar price to more expensive stages units

solstice21

I've gone from crank arm based to the idea of dual sided pedals myself now. I'm currently hovering over the button for a pair of Bepros or going with my head, paying extra and getting a P2M. The only niggle I have with the Bepro is that I like to have the balls of my feet almost touching the crankarm and get the feeling that the module is going to get in the way. Other than that they look good vfm.

seventenths

londoncommuter wrote:

seventenths wrote:

Thank you for the replies.

I don't think there is an obvious cheaper option, given that I am using carbon crank Campagnolo and don't want to change my wheels for ones with a power hub.

Feel free to suggest if I've missed an option?

If new wheels/hubs are out, that leaves cranksets which are more expensive and Stages/4iii don't work with carbon campy.

I am going to have a massive ebay sale of unused 'toys' to fund these!

What were your thoughts on the much cheaper Favero?

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2015/09/fave ... eview.html

Thanks. DCR seemed a little luke warm towards them and the potentially fragile pod cover would annoy me, not sure about availability either. These days I try to only buy from retailers that I know will absolutely support any problems (Wiggle have never let me down, replacing kit many months old) and I do not know any of the BePro dealers. The principal bike these will go on was built with 80% heart with limited regard for cost, so my feeling is just buy the P1s and deal with changing my cleats on a few pairs of shoes.

I do wonder if in 2-3yrs all power solutions will be sub £500 and much more the norm. But times waits for no man and spring seems to be here!

londoncommuter

seventenths wrote:

I do wonder if in 2-3yrs all power solutions will be sub £500 and much more the norm. But times waits for no man and spring seems to be here!

Maybe wait for the P2's, I'm thinking 100g lighter, less ugly and £400!

jmrr

+1 for bePRO.
I had single sided version and then bought dual sided. No problems at all. Installation is easy and fast.

stueys

I've had vector for two years and added a p2m recently onto my nice bike. In my experience I would stay well away from vector, it's been unreliable for me. If you take a look at the garmin support forum you'll find similar tales of woe. My p2m just works, every time like clockwork.

I went pedal based for the same reason you are thinking, portability between bikes. If I had my time again now I would probably look at two p2m's (pretty much a wash cost wise to one pedal based), or syncing bottom bracket standards across my bikes (swapping the p2m then becomes easy). I like the crank based systems over pedals but my experience is tarnished by my vector problems, I've heard nothing but good on the powertap system.

jimmurray

Seconded on the Vectors, avoid, nothing but trouble.

solstice21

little unexpected bonus this month = dual sided Bepros..

seventenths

Solstice21 wrote:

little unexpected bonus this month = dual sided Bepros..

I am tempted by the Bepros but is the (rapid) wear to the sensors inevitable? It almost seems as if just un clipping could cause part of your sole to scrape the sensor and cause damage.

gethinceri

There is no wear on my BePros after 3 months, at all.

solstice21

seventenths wrote:

Solstice21 wrote:

little unexpected bonus this month = dual sided Bepros..

I am tempted by the Bepros but is the (rapid) wear to the sensors inevitable? It almost seems as if just un clipping could cause part of your sole to scrape the sensor and cause damage.

Someone comments/ photos a genius hack of putting a strip of innertube around the sensor on DCRM's full review. If I order then I'd do that for sure.
I was also worried about mashing into sensor and having to change q factor but after clipping shoes in (without feet) and having a good gander, the clearance looks ok.

gsk82

Will these pedals wear out after a couple of years like normal pedals? If yes, can you transfer the power element to another pedal?

seventenths

Gethinceri wrote:

There is no wear on my BePros after 3 months, at all.

Thanks, that is reassuring. As an owner , with no wear after 3 months and I assume regular use, can you imagine why/how people are damaging the sensor element? I use Sidi shoes, I wonder if some shoes/soles are more prone to hitting the sensor.

My only hesitance is the initial bedding in period (but I only plan the swap them twice a year, winter to summer bike and back again) and the perceived vulnerability.

Aside from the lower cost against the P1s I also like the 100% Look keo cleat compatibility and I assume standard stack height, plus my bike is Italian!

nicklong

A racing colleague and I both use Vector S pedals, and can't rate them highly enough. In terms of reliability I haven't had any issues in over 8000kms of use, and there hasn't been any software or readout issues.

Battery life is good (circa 6 months / 3500kms of use) and moving them between bikes takes me a few minutes with a pedal wrench to fit and torque wrench to tighten.

TBH with only one power meter I don't have the ability to compare accuracy, but they are certainly consistent - using the Vectors with TrainerRoad for example has led to consistent and realistic increases in FTP and 'toughness' of workouts over the past 18 months. Increasingly I'm able to depend on feel / PRE and the power outputs are consistent with what I'd feel, even with the single sided system.

I've thought about upgrading them to dual-sided but TBH they fulfill my needs at present. Good vfm.

seventenths

nicklong wrote:

A racing colleague and I both use Vector S pedals, and can't rate them highly enough. In terms of reliability I haven't had any issues in over 8000kms of use, and there hasn't been any software or readout issues.

Battery life is good (circa 6 months / 3500kms of use) and moving them between bikes takes me a few minutes with a pedal wrench to fit and torque wrench to tighten.

TBH with only one power meter I don't have the ability to compare accuracy, but they are certainly consistent - using the Vectors with TrainerRoad for example has led to consistent and realistic increases in FTP and 'toughness' of workouts over the past 18 months. Increasingly I'm able to depend on feel / PRE and the power outputs are consistent with what I'd feel, even with the single sided system.

I've thought about upgrading them to dual-sided but TBH they fulfill my needs at present. Good vfm.

Thanks, I am not totally sure I need double sided measurement .....and if I can avoid changing my look keo cleats that would be a bonus.

All three systems have their advantages/disadvantages.

jmrr

seventenths wrote:

Gethinceri wrote:

There is no wear on my BePros after 3 months, at all.

Thanks, that is reassuring. As an owner , with no wear after 3 months and I assume regular use, can you imagine why/how people are damaging the sensor element? I use Sidi shoes, I wonder if some shoes/soles are more prone to hitting the sensor.

My only hesitance is the initial bedding in period (but I only plan the swap them twice a year, winter to summer bike and back again) and the perceived vulnerability.

Aside from the lower cost against the P1s I also like the 100% Look keo cleat compatibility and I assume standard stack height, plus my bike is Italian!

I have removed and installed my pedals many times and after the install I do dynamic calibration, and after few rides I do it again. I haven't noticed difference after the second calibration so I wouldn't worry about the bedding time.
Especially since you are swapping them only twice a year, it's not gonna be a problem.

gethinceri

seventenths wrote:

Gethinceri wrote:

There is no wear on my BePros after 3 months, at all.

Thanks, that is reassuring. As an owner , with no wear after 3 months and I assume regular use, can you imagine why/how people are damaging the sensor element? I use Sidi shoes, I wonder if some shoes/soles are more prone to hitting the sensor.

My only hesitance is the initial bedding in period (but I only plan the swap them twice a year, winter to summer bike and back again) and the perceived vulnerability.

Aside from the lower cost against the P1s I also like the 100% Look keo cleat compatibility and I assume standard stack height, plus my bike is Italian!

I wear Sidi shoes with LookKeo cleats. I have no idea why others see wear to the meter body.
Go ahead and buy them, they're as accurate and consistent as they need to be and easy to install once you've done it a couple of times.

daniel_b

seventenths wrote:

nicklong wrote:

Thanks, I am not totally sure I need double sided measurement .....and if I can avoid changing my look keo cleats that would be a bonus.

All three systems have their advantages/disadvantages.

But they are Look Keo cleats, so why would you need to change them?