New Brakes or Better Pads for the Bigger Rider

cpacey86

Afternoon Folks,

Having been a keen cyclist for the past 18 months now, I am now looking at upgrading my brakes on my Boardman Team Carbon which has the standard spec Tektro R540 Dual Pivot brakes on it and I have found them average at best, and before I ventured out and bought some, I thought I would ask for some recommendations on here, seeing as like many on here I have read[posts before and they have helped me in choosing between items so thought its the best place to ask. AM i best buying new brakes, or should i try new brake blocks first, as i read somewhere new pads can be just as efficient as new brakes?

I weight a hefty but healthy 95kg so having some assurance that I have a good chance of stopping at the bottom of a climb would be a bonus, as at the moment the Tektro brakes are a bit flimsy and unresponsive at best....

Price bracket is sensible, but not breaking the bank

Many Thanks

Chris

arthur_scrimshaw

I'd try new brake pads first, much lower cost and transferable if you decide to upgrade the brakes later. Everyone has their favourite brand, Swisstop are good but lots of other stuff out there. Generally the softer compounds give better braking but wear out faster.

kajjal

I am a similar weight and found the cheap rim brakes bikes come with borderline dangerous. I replaced mine with 105's and swisstop green pads which was a marked improvement. My wifes bike has long drop brakes so i fitted r650 brakes which even without changing the pads were much better. You can try the pads first to see if it works for you but i found the 105 brakes felt solid and i could feel the braking better.

wishitwasallflat

I'm heavier than you and my bike had no name tektro brakes - fitting koolstop salmon pads improved things a lot fitting SRAM force brakes improved things even more. If you can afford it do both if not blocks only.

Anonymous

105 5800 (if they fit) and Swissstop Greens.

Not quite sure what the logic of 'trying the pads first' is.
Thats just half solving a problem for which you have the full solution

arthur_scrimshaw

Carbonator wrote:

105 5800 (if they fit) and Swissstop Greens.

Not quite sure what the logic of 'trying the pads first' is.
Thats just half solving a problem for which you have the full solution

I'm sure you do really, don't put yourself down

Anonymous

Arthur Scrimshaw wrote:

Carbonator wrote:

105 5800 (if they fit) and Swissstop Greens.

Not quite sure what the logic of 'trying the pads first' is.
Thats just half solving a problem for which you have the full solution

I'm sure you do really, don't put yourself down

Ok, be rude then.

So you have pants braking, know that both the pads and calipers are not the best........ and change one of them.
Not my kind of logic

cpacey86

Many Thanks for the feedback everyone. Its very much appreciated.

I must admit 105's and some good brake pads was my original thought, but thought i would test the water first.

Would they fit with Tiagra shifters, or are they 105 shifter specific if that makes sense?

kajjal

cpacey86 wrote:

Many Thanks for the feedback everyone. Its very much appreciated.

I must admit 105's and some good brake pads was my original thought, but thought i would test the water first.

Would they fit with Tiagra shifters, or are they 105 shifter specific if that makes sense?

My old bike from a couple of years ago had Tiagra Shifters and they worked fine with 105 brakes.

The thing to watch for is the gromit on the cables often won't fit properly into the brake caliper for 105 brakes. Just take the adjuster off the old brakes and swap it over so the gromit fits normally.

This will make more sense when you do it

bearman3784

Kajjal wrote:

cpacey86 wrote:

Many Thanks for the feedback everyone. Its very much appreciated.

I must admit 105's and some good brake pads was my original thought, but thought i would test the water first.

Would they fit with Tiagra shifters, or are they 105 shifter specific if that makes sense?

My old bike from a couple of years ago had Tiagra Shifters and they worked fine with 105 brakes.

The thing to watch for is the gromit on the cables often won't fit properly into the brake caliper for 105 brakes. Just take the adjuster off the old brakes and swap it over so the gromit fits normally.

This will make more sense when you do it

There is a reason the ferrules don't fit into the caliper, they are not needed on newer Shimano brakes

davebradswmb

Carbonator wrote:

Arthur Scrimshaw wrote:

Carbonator wrote:

105 5800 (if they fit) and Swissstop Greens.

Not quite sure what the logic of 'trying the pads first' is.
Thats just half solving a problem for which you have the full solution

I'm sure you do really, don't put yourself down

Ok, be rude then.

So you have pants braking, know that both the pads and calipers are not the best........ and change one of them.
Not my kind of logic

If you follow your logic through then we should all buy Dura-ace brakes, 105s aren't the best either. Changing the blocks will make a much bigger difference than changing the brakes and costs 1/2 of the price, why not change them first and see how you go and if you still aren't happy then go for the 105s.

I'm in exactly the same position myself having recently bought a build on a Kinesis frame using low-end parts, Sora group set and Tektro brakes. I am mostly happy with the result as a commuter/winter bike apart from the brakes. I will be changing the blocks this weekend.

kajjal

davebradswmb wrote:

Carbonator wrote:

Arthur Scrimshaw wrote:

Carbonator wrote:

105 5800 (if they fit) and Swissstop Greens.

Not quite sure what the logic of 'trying the pads first' is.
Thats just half solving a problem for which you have the full solution

I'm sure you do really, don't put yourself down

Ok, be rude then.

So you have pants braking, know that both the pads and calipers are not the best........ and change one of them.
Not my kind of logic

If you follow your logic through then we should all buy Dura-ace brakes, 105s aren't the best either. Changing the blocks will make a much bigger difference than changing the brakes and costs 1/2 of the price, why not change them first and see how you go and if you still aren't happy then go for the 105s.

I'm in exactly the same position myself having recently bought a build on a Kinesis frame using low-end parts, Sora group set and Tektro brakes. I am mostly happy with the result as a commuter/winter bike apart from the brakes. I will be changing the blocks this weekend.

For heavier riders the tektro calipers can flex alot when braking, 105 or r650 calipers are more rigid and have better braking feel.

trailflow

If you follow my logic you should all buy Dura Ace brakes even if you ride a halfords carrera. They are worth it.

New brakes pads will only make abit of difference. If you want more force and power then the newer calipers are guaranteed to be better (based of reviews and feedback alone). The newest 105,6800,9000 calipers have much more power than before because of the roller cam design.

I'd recommend new calipers because they come with new pads. Which i think is better value. New calipers + free (kinda) new pads = win/win

darkhairedlord

drop 30kg of the 95kg (less spent on food so more money on new kit) and your brakes will be fine (even more money saved).
So a win win.

davebradswmb

trailflow wrote:

I'd recommend new calipers because they come with new pads. Which i think is better value. New calipers + free (kinda) new pads = win/win

I hadn't thought of that, good point. The only reservation is are the "free" pads any good? I've not bought new brakes for years and the blocks used to be rubbish and were replaced very quickly.

trailflow wrote:

If you follow my logic you should all buy Dura Ace brakes even if you ride a halfords carrera. They are worth it.

I've got Campag Veloce brakes and Fibrax blocks on my best bike, both bottom end of the "quality" spectrum, and I don't feel that I need to fork out for anything better, they seem to stop me well enough. There is a law of diminishing returns and most of us have to work within our budgets. It's near enough £200 a set for Dura-Ace brakes, I can find plenty of other things to spend the difference on.

kajjal

darkhairedlord wrote:

drop 30kg of the 95kg (less spent on food so more money on new kit) and your brakes will be fine (even more money saved).
So a win win.

If i did that i would be dangerously under weight, even going by BMI would be very far into the under weight category.

cpacey86

Couldnt agree more. 6 foot 1 and a healthy 95kg, fit and play rugby for my main hobby, I dont really see "losing 30kg" or weight in general as a credible option.

Thanks for all the other useful feedback, will go 105's and swisstop pads i think, will fit them over Easter and give you a verdict after a few rides. The tektro ones at the moment are just useless sadly.

Semantik

New

cpacey86 wrote:

Couldnt agree more. 6 foot 1 and a healthy 95kg, fit and play rugby for my main hobby, I dont really see "losing 30kg" or weight in general as a credible option.

Thanks for all the other useful feedback, will go 105's and swisstop pads i think, will fit them over Easter and give you a verdict after a few rides. The tektro ones at the moment are just useless sadly.

You'll be fine with the stock pads on the new 105 brakes- they stop you nice and sharply.
There are some rubbish brakes out there down the lower end of the food chain and better pads won't save them from being rubbish. If some people are happy with that fair enough but usually those people don't need to slow down as quickly as others or have never experienced or don't appreciate decent stopping power.
105 calipers @ £39.95 a pair = bargain/no brainer.

Anonymous

I am glad some sense is being spoken at last.

The OP should buy both. He will then know what braking he can have (rather than trying one and wondering).

The new pads will wear out one day, at which point he can re-fit the ones that came with them (so no money wasted).

If he likes the stock pads after experiencing Swissstops then at least he tried them.
If he thinks they are inferior then he buys some more Swissstops.

Anonymous

davebradswmb wrote:

Carbonator wrote:

So you have pants braking, know that both the pads and calipers are not the best........ and change one of them.
Not my kind of logic

If you follow your logic through then we should all buy Dura-ace brakes, 105s aren't the best either. Changing the blocks will make a much bigger difference than changing the brakes and costs 1/2 of the price, why not change them first and see how you go and if you still aren't happy then go for the 105s.

Er, no. My logic just said that you should change both pads and calipers.

You could change to DA if you wanted to, but it was just that you change both.

Not sure you are correct about pads making more of a difference than calipers as I would always change both ;-)

davebradswmb

It looks like I might be doing the same. I will try changing the pads first as I have some spare pads in the shed and it won't cost me anything, but it sounds as if it isn't going to be enough. I'll let you know how I get on next week.

amrushton

You could try to locate nos DA or Ultegra callipers eg 6700. Or put a wtb in the ads.

simon_masterson

Kajjal wrote:

I am a similar weight and found the cheap rim brakes bikes come with borderline dangerous.

You should try some Weinmanns with the two tone pads, on steel rims, particularly when it's raining torrentially. Those are dangerous. I have not come across any modern brakes that come close, however cheap. I use a 105 caliper on one bike and a Tektro long drop on another, they do the same thing.

We are dealing with simple friction here - the two surfaces involved will determine how effective your brakes are, so definitely get better pads first.

Anonymous

What utter bollox!

chrisaonabike

FWIW, I have the original Tektro TK-R540 calipers that came with my 2012 Defy 3.

The brakes were always a bit crap, and when the pads wore out, I replaced them with SwissStop Greens.

Made an astonishing difference. There's a hill I come down at almost 30mph most times I go out, and the new pads literally halved the stopping distance. Don't feel any need to change the calipers.

lesfirth

Simon Masterson wrote:

Kajjal wrote:

I am a similar weight and found the cheap rim brakes bikes come with borderline dangerous.

You should try some Weinmanns with the two tone pads, on steel rims, particularly when it's raining torrentially. Those are dangerous. I have not come across any modern brakes that come close, however cheap. I use a 105 caliper on one bike and a Tektro long drop on another, they do the same thing.

We are dealing with simple friction here - the two surfaces involved will determine how effective your brakes are, so definitely get better pads first.

Some may think this is bollox but anyone with a little technical/scientific/engineering knowledge will agree with it.

Semantik

lesfirth wrote:

Simon Masterson wrote:

Kajjal wrote:

I am a similar weight and found the cheap rim brakes bikes come with borderline dangerous.

You should try some Weinmanns with the two tone pads, on steel rims, particularly when it's raining torrentially. Those are dangerous. I have not come across any modern brakes that come close, however cheap. I use a 105 caliper on one bike and a Tektro long drop on another, they do the same thing.

We are dealing with simple friction here - the two surfaces involved will determine how effective your brakes are, so definitely get better pads first.

Some may think this is bollox but anyone with a little technical/scientific/engineering knowledge will agree with it.

So why buy DA brakes? Or Ultegra? Or Sora for that matter? When you can have a pair of Tektro suicide calipers for less than £20 a set.
We've been here before and the simple fact is that better brakes are better. They give better modulation, better power, stop you more efficiently.
If you want to penny pinch with rubbish brakes and better pads that's your choice but you have still got rubbish brakes.

Anonymous

Why bother with direct mount either?

Why do the Tektro have it just right then?
Could they actually be flimsier and still work wonders with new pads.

What about single pivot?

We should all go Tourney/Tektro
I thought it was complete rubbish as you can push the bike along the floor with brakes full on, but if it's just a case of changing pads 8)

simon_masterson

Semantik wrote:

lesfirth wrote:

Simon Masterson wrote:

Kajjal wrote:

I am a similar weight and found the cheap rim brakes bikes come with borderline dangerous.

You should try some Weinmanns with the two tone pads, on steel rims, particularly when it's raining torrentially. Those are dangerous. I have not come across any modern brakes that come close, however cheap. I use a 105 caliper on one bike and a Tektro long drop on another, they do the same thing.

We are dealing with simple friction here - the two surfaces involved will determine how effective your brakes are, so definitely get better pads first.

Some may think this is bollox but anyone with a little technical/scientific/engineering knowledge will agree with it.

So why buy DA brakes? Or Ultegra? Or Sora for that matter? When you can have a pair of Tektro suicide calipers for less than £20 a set.
We've been here before and the simple fact is that better brakes are better. They give better modulation, better power, stop you more efficiently.
If you want to penny pinch with rubbish brakes and better pads that's your choice but you have still got rubbish brakes.

And if you want better modulation and power still, scrap your rim brakes and get discs. You can always have a brake that is better in both of these respects. The simple fact of the matter is that the caliper itself is decidedly secondary, particularly with modern equipment. If the rim surface and brake pad are right, you will stop your bike. If you aren't happy with your braking performance, you should therefore prioritise accordingly. Better to have an inferior caliper with a good brake pad and rim surface than vice versa.

It's fine to buy better brakes, it's fine to buy the best brakes you can afford, but to claim that modern ones are 'dangerous' is ridiculous, and more likely down to user error. As in the above, technology has improved beyond recognition in the last couple of decades. Tektro brakes are perfectly adequate. I use and would buy them again.

lesfirth

Semantik wrote:

lesfirth wrote:

Simon Masterson wrote:

Kajjal wrote:

I am a similar weight and found the cheap rim brakes bikes come with borderline dangerous.

You should try some Weinmanns with the two tone pads, on steel rims, particularly when it's raining torrentially. Those are dangerous. I have not come across any modern brakes that come close, however cheap. I use a 105 caliper on one bike and a Tektro long drop on another, they do the same thing.

We are dealing with simple friction here - the two surfaces involved will determine how effective your brakes are, so definitely get better pads first.

Some may think this is bollox but anyone with a little technical/scientific/engineering knowledge will agree with it.

So why buy DA brakes? Or Ultegra? Or Sora for that matter? When you can have a pair of Tektro suicide calipers for less than £20 a set.
We've been here before and the simple fact is that better brakes are better. They give better modulation, better power, stop you more efficiently.
If you want to penny pinch with rubbish brakes and better pads that's your choice but you have still got rubbish brakes.

I know we have been here many times and nobody has ever answered my question. Take DA out of it, please tell me why does an expensive dual pivot caliper works any better than a cheap dual pivot caliper?

Anonymous

Probably similar progression from why a cheap duel pivot works better than a single pivot ;-)