Aero Wheels or Electronic Shifting?
Comments
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ugo.santalucia wrote:TurboTommy wrote:
To be fair when you say things like:
"they're both a waste of money" or "Most of the rest are just vanity purchases, for people with more disposable income than imagination".
It kinda sounds like a moral judgement... You give more solid advice to this forum than I ever will. But your tone might be a little off here. We're assuming too much to make the judgement you're making.
That is because you are uncomfortable with the idea of being vain... what I want to say is exactly what I have said... they are vanity purchases for people who can't think of a better way to spend their/our money. It's not their/our fault... there is a bombardment of advertising aimed at making you feel inadequate if you don't have this and that and reassuring you that being vain is OK.
I do buy a lot of crap that I am quite happy to classify as vanity purchases, but I would never advise others to do the same.
Very recently I bought a Mavic T-Shirt with the Paris-Roubaix percours on it... vanity... it turns out to be utter shite, made ofthe cheapest cotton you can think of, with terrible fit and mildly disgusting colour.. so I will return it and reclaim my 20 quid for a more sensible use.
Again you're making assumptions... I make my living trying to assume as little as possible and by sticking to what is proven
Read your post again. It seems you'd be better served taking your own advice regarding buying what you consider vanity projects rather than projecting your flaws on to someone else. The op asked a fairly straight forward question.Cannondale caad7 ultegra
S-works Tarmac sl5 etap
Colnago c64 etap wifli
Brother Swift0 -
TurboTommy wrote:ugo.santalucia wrote:TurboTommy wrote:
To be fair when you say things like:
"they're both a waste of money" or "Most of the rest are just vanity purchases, for people with more disposable income than imagination".
It kinda sounds like a moral judgement... You give more solid advice to this forum than I ever will. But your tone might be a little off here. We're assuming too much to make the judgement you're making.
That is because you are uncomfortable with the idea of being vain... what I want to say is exactly what I have said... they are vanity purchases for people who can't think of a better way to spend their/our money. It's not their/our fault... there is a bombardment of advertising aimed at making you feel inadequate if you don't have this and that and reassuring you that being vain is OK.
I do buy a lot of crap that I am quite happy to classify as vanity purchases, but I would never advise others to do the same.
Very recently I bought a Mavic T-Shirt with the Paris-Roubaix percours on it... vanity... it turns out to be utter shite, made ofthe cheapest cotton you can think of, with terrible fit and mildly disgusting colour.. so I will return it and reclaim my 20 quid for a more sensible use.
Again you're making assumptions... I make my living trying to assume as little as possible and by sticking to what is proven
Read your post again. It seems you'd be better served taking your own advice regarding buying what you consider vanity projects rather than projecting your flaws on to someone else. The op asked a fairly straight forward question.
Well said - actually he just comes across as a total c0ck. Really who is he to moralise on what people want to buy and calling them vain? Just his raving loony leftie leanings coming across loud and clear which unfortunately we've seen before.0 -
If you're on a limited budget and the aim is to go faster then you'd probably be better off spending the money on some coaching. My 2%.
Me? I've just bought some Wheelsmith deep section carbon wheels. I've already got Super Record EPS. Neither make me go fast, but I don't care. I like them, I can afford them and they give me pleasure every time I ride my bike.0 -
IC. is spot on.
I deliberately didn't mention my budget to prevent everyone from advising me to do something else with it.
I am looking at a new bike in the £1.5 - £2.5k range with full Ultegra and have a choice between 2 bikes at the same price point - one with mid level aero wheels and the other with Ultegra Di2 - the question is which option will I most appreciate and benefit from?
As for Ugo's comments I totally agree. I have invested in good clothing so I can enjoy my rides, I've experienced riding in the Alps and crave more (family life permitting) and have earmarked events I want to do. Yes I could still do all of this on a cheaper bike but I'm lucky to be able to afford to spend a lot more but cannot personally justify a £3.5k+ spend given my limited time in the saddle, hence I set myself a budget.
As for vanity - yes I am a little vain but who isn't?
and finally - Yes I do realise that having all the gear will not make me a better rider but I'm a sucker for tech and having a bike I cannot wait to ride is a great feeling so what will I most appreciate spending my money on?0 -
Ugo, you are dead right.
Fancy wheels or shifters will be soon forgotten about, but memories of a dream cycling trip or an epic event will be treasured forever.
a no brainer.ugo.santalucia wrote:Assuming you have a decent enough bike (say 1000 quid alu/carbon with 105 and a set of mid range wheels 200-300 pounds jobbies) then cycling money is best spent on (in no particular order):
1) Clothes, especially winter/wet weather layers, but also good bibshorts
2) Holidays/cycling trips, the more exotic the better
3) Events: those you dream of doing, being the Etape, the marmotte, Cape Argus, Ride across America or whatever floats your boat
Most of the rest are just vanity purchases, for people with more disposable income than imagination0 -
I'm gonna go with the simplest approach of answering the question you actually asked ;-)
Wheels. Aero wheels make a genuine tangible difference that can be felt on the bike, they are faster. Di2 is lovely, but it doesn't do anything significantly better than mechanical, it's just that everything it does is just a smidge better0 -
MattW267 wrote:IC. is spot on.
I deliberately didn't mention my budget to prevent everyone from advising me to do something else with it.
I am looking at a new bike in the £1.5 - £2.5k range with full Ultegra and have a choice between 2 bikes at the same price point - one with mid level aero wheels and the other with Ultegra Di2 - the question is which option will I most appreciate and benefit from?
As for Ugo's comments I totally agree. I have invested in good clothing so I can enjoy my rides, I've experienced riding in the Alps and crave more (family life permitting) and have earmarked events I want to do. Yes I could still do all of this on a cheaper bike but I'm lucky to be able to afford to spend a lot more but cannot personally justify a £3.5k+ spend given my limited time in the saddle, hence I set myself a budget.
As for vanity - yes I am a little vain but who isn't?
and finally - Yes I do realise that having all the gear will not make me a better rider but I'm a sucker for tech and having a bike I cannot wait to ride is a great feeling so what will I most appreciate spending my money on?
What bikes are you looking at ? It's possible to do both in that price range Eg :-
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-gb/bikes/model/propel.advanced.0/24973/90493/
https://www.evanscycles.com/bmc-teammachine-slr03-sora-2016-road-bike-EV237594 - Sell the Sora, buy Ultegra Di2 and aero wheels for the bike.
https://www.evanscycles.com/specialized-roubaix-sl4-comp-udi2-road-bike-EV230924 or
https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/road/ultimate/2016/ultimate-cf-sl-9-0-di2.html
and get some chinese carbon aero wheels to go with the bikes
Lot's of choices out there0 -
ugo.santalucia wrote:Assuming you have a decent enough bike (say 1000 quid alu/carbon with 105 and a set of mid range wheels 200-300 pounds jobbies) then cycling money is best spent on (in no particular order):
1) Clothes, especially winter/wet weather layers, but also good bibshorts
2) Holidays/cycling trips, the more exotic the better
3) Events: those you dream of doing, being the Etape, the marmotte, Cape Argus, Ride across America or whatever floats your boat
Most of the rest are just vanity purchases, for people with more disposable income than imagination
What a load of tosh...
Follow this logic and we all may as well be riding a shopper, it's still riding a bike right?
My carbon 105 equipped modestly alloy wheel shod winter bike is perfectly adequate, have nailed plenty of KOMs on it and it's well suited to the odd Crit or 100 miler. I like riding it.
That said I'll take the Hi-Mod with Red and carbon wheels out every time if the weather is conducive, it's much much nicer to ride, sure at the levels stated there are diminishing returns but come on...
If it's nicer to ride (even if it's only because you like the look) you'll be more motivated to get out and ride, psychology has its part to play. For some enjoying the ride more is just as likely to then lead on to all those further events and things you could spend your money on. There's a difference between adequate and special, whether that difference is value for money/affordabile is in the eye of the beholder and has nothing to do with 'need'0 -
defride wrote:ugo.santalucia wrote:Assuming you have a decent enough bike (say 1000 quid alu/carbon with 105 and a set of mid range wheels 200-300 pounds jobbies) then cycling money is best spent on (in no particular order):
1) Clothes, especially winter/wet weather layers, but also good bibshorts
2) Holidays/cycling trips, the more exotic the better
3) Events: those you dream of doing, being the Etape, the marmotte, Cape Argus, Ride across America or whatever floats your boat
Most of the rest are just vanity purchases, for people with more disposable income than imagination
What a load of tosh...
Follow this logic and we all may as well be riding a shopper, it's still riding a bike right?
My carbon 105 equipped modestly alloy wheel shod winter bike is perfectly adequate, have nailed plenty of KOMs on it and it's well suited to the odd Crit or 100 miler. I like riding it.
That said I'll take the Hi-Mod with Red and carbon wheels out every time if the weather is conducive, it's much much nicer to ride, sure at the levels stated there are diminishing returns but come on...
If it's nicer to ride (even if it's only because you like the look) you'll be more motivated to get out and ride, psychology has its part to play. For some enjoying the ride more is just as likely to then lead on to all those further events and things you could spend your money on. There's a difference between adequate and special, whether that difference is value for money/affordabile is in the eye of the beholder and has nothing to do with 'need'
OK, but you are not actually making any point... I think the message got somewhat lost along the post. "What a load of tosh" is a bold start, but then you have to back it up with equally bold reasoningleft the forum March 20230 -
defride wrote:ugo.santalucia wrote:Assuming you have a decent enough bike (say 1000 quid alu/carbon with 105 and a set of mid range wheels 200-300 pounds jobbies) then cycling money is best spent on (in no particular order):
1) Clothes, especially winter/wet weather layers, but also good bibshorts
2) Holidays/cycling trips, the more exotic the better
3) Events: those you dream of doing, being the Etape, the marmotte, Cape Argus, Ride across America or whatever floats your boat
Most of the rest are just vanity purchases, for people with more disposable income than imagination
What a load of tosh...
Follow this logic and we all may as well be riding a shopper, it's still riding a bike right?
My carbon 105 equipped modestly alloy wheel shod winter bike is perfectly adequate, have nailed plenty of KOMs on it and it's well suited to the odd Crit or 100 miler. I like riding it.
That said I'll take the Hi-Mod with Red and carbon wheels out every time if the weather is conducive, it's much much nicer to ride, sure at the levels stated there are diminishing returns but come on...
If it's nicer to ride (even if it's only because you like the look) you'll be more motivated to get out and ride, psychology has its part to play. For some enjoying the ride more is just as likely to then lead on to all those further events and things you could spend your money on. There's a difference between adequate and special, whether that difference is value for money/affordabile is in the eye of the beholder and has nothing to do with 'need'
I've read that a couple of times and it certainly reads like you agree with Ugo
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MattW267 wrote:I am looking at a new bike in the £1.5 - £2.5k range with full Ultegra and have a choice between 2 bikes at the same price point - one with mid level aero wheels and the other with Ultegra Di2 - the question is which option will I most appreciate and benefit from?
If it was an upgrade, I'd say wheels but, as it's a new bike purchase, I'd go with Di2. I's a lot less of a ball ache to change a pair of wheels than it is a groupset if you decide you want to upgrade.0 -
I'd go with a power meter before either of them.0
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Wheels
Or Rapha hats.Trek,,,, too cool for school ,, apparently0 -
Hits the nail right on the head.Imposter wrote:ugo.santalucia wrote:Neither. They are both a waste of money
That's quite possibly the right answer. Which is why I said 'it depends'
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What an odd post. You first of all calls Ugo's post a load of tosh, and then go on to agree exactly with what he wrote!
Try reading people's posts more carefully before you react next time.defride wrote:
What a load of tosh...
Follow this logic and we all may as well be riding a shopper, it's still riding a bike right?
My carbon 105 equipped modestly alloy wheel shod winter bike is perfectly adequate, have nailed plenty of KOMs on it and it's well suited to the odd Crit or 100 miler. I like riding it.
That said I'll take the Hi-Mod with Red and carbon wheels out every time if the weather is conducive, it's much much nicer to ride, sure at the levels stated there are diminishing returns but come on...
If it's nicer to ride (even if it's only because you like the look) you'll be more motivated to get out and ride, psychology has its part to play. For some enjoying the ride more is just as likely to then lead on to all those further events and things you could spend your money on. There's a difference between adequate and special, whether that difference is value for money/affordabile is in the eye of the beholder and has nothing to do with 'need'0 -
robbo2011 wrote:What an odd post. You first of all calls Ugo's post a load of tosh, and then go on to agree exactly with what he wrote!
Try reading people's posts more carefully before you react next time.defride wrote:
What a load of tosh...
Follow this logic and we all may as well be riding a shopper, it's still riding a bike right?
My carbon 105 equipped modestly alloy wheel shod winter bike is perfectly adequate, have nailed plenty of KOMs on it and it's well suited to the odd Crit or 100 miler. I like riding it.
That said I'll take the Hi-Mod with Red and carbon wheels out every time if the weather is conducive, it's much much nicer to ride, sure at the levels stated there are diminishing returns but come on...
If it's nicer to ride (even if it's only because you like the look) you'll be more motivated to get out and ride, psychology has its part to play. For some enjoying the ride more is just as likely to then lead on to all those further events and things you could spend your money on. There's a difference between adequate and special, whether that difference is value for money/affordabile is in the eye of the beholder and has nothing to do with 'need'
Forgot about this thread, it's getting on a bit but just to clarify
As I read it Ugo's post say's as long as you've got an adequate bike say £1k worth then there is no point in spending any more on a bike. Spend your money on something else.
In reply I'd say that contention is nonsense, in my experience there is a world of difference between riding a steep hill on an adequate carbon 105 machine and a much more expensive stiffer, race oriented, 6kg machine. Vanity purchase? No chance, the right tool for the job.
Spend more if you can, you might end up riding more was the thrust of it, hope that makes sense.
Apologies if the initial tone sounded harsh!0 -
Anybody that thinks people are vain for spending their money how they like, irrespective of whether they need it or not, has the problem here. Their money, they spend it how they want. Jealousy is an odd friend to covet?I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.0
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defride wrote:Vanity purchase? No chance, the right tool for the job.
I think it is a vanity purchase. Just because you've bought thousands of dollars of tools doesn't mean that you know how to use them. Right tool for the job? Absolutely. Question really is, can you use it? You can spend millions on an F-1 car, but I doubt you can drive it. Of course it's vanity. You want to think you're good enough. And maybe get a few wows from people, but it will be for the bike. Not the way you're able to use it. You'll have to convince yourself that you're this great climber, because no one else will be. Regardless of the bike, you won't be this great climber that you aspire to. More to it than that.0 -
dennisn wrote:defride wrote:Vanity purchase? No chance, the right tool for the job.
I think it is a vanity purchase. Just because you've bought thousands of dollars of tools doesn't mean that you know how to use them. Right tool for the job? Absolutely. Question really is, can you use it? You can spend millions on an F-1 car, but I doubt you can drive it. Of course it's vanity. You want to think you're good enough. And maybe get a few wows from people, but it will be for the bike. Not the way you're able to use it. You'll have to convince yourself that you're this great climber, because no one else will be. Regardless of the bike, you won't be this great climber that you aspire to. More to it than that.
If someone is suffering from low self esteem then they might ride a cheap bike because they feel that is all they deserve.
I ride a nice bike because I am worth it.
I would rather allow you to think I'm vain than under value my self worth.
Aero wheels BTW "You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul0 -
Aero wheels
Power meter
Smart trainer
Coach
Di2
Not a cheap sport is it?!0 -
dennisn wrote:defride wrote:Vanity purchase? No chance, the right tool for the job.
I think it is a vanity purchase. Just because you've bought thousands of dollars of tools doesn't mean that you know how to use them. Right tool for the job? Absolutely. Question really is, can you use it? You can spend millions on an F-1 car, but I doubt you can drive it. Of course it's vanity. You want to think you're good enough. And maybe get a few wows from people, but it will be for the bike. Not the way you're able to use it. You'll have to convince yourself that you're this great climber, because no one else will be. Regardless of the bike, you won't be this great climber that you aspire to. More to it than that.
Yes excellent comparison...F1 cars and bike components... I for one never dare put my aero wheels on my bike unless my support team is in attendance.Cannondale caad7 ultegra
S-works Tarmac sl5 etap
Colnago c64 etap wifli
Brother Swift0 -
defride wrote:In reply I'd say that contention is nonsense, in my experience there is a world of difference between riding a steep hill on an adequate carbon 105 machine and a much more expensive stiffer, race oriented, 6kg machine. Vanity purchase? No chance, the right tool for the job.
There is a world of difference. But only if you are comparing one with the other. If you only ever ride the 'adequate carbon 105 machine' then you will never miss the 6kg machine. Without the heavier bike to compare with, there is no point to the lighter one.
And this is the point. Even the argument that the wheels will make you faster whereas the Di2 won't doesn't achieve much as ultimately the benefit is merely relative; again, you need the slower wheels to be able to appreciate the faster.
I'm not saying that that means you don't get fun from the faster wheels, the lighter bike - but you'll need the comparison to make the fun stick.Faster than a tent.......0 -
Why does every post on here from someone asking should I buy this or that descend into you’re wasting your money buying what you have asked, spend the money on a holiday to the alps or get coaching, I don’t get it?
In this instance the OP didn’t ask should I spend my money on fancy bits for my bike or on a cycling holiday, but that seems to be the answer he got?
My understanding of the “Road Buying Advice” Forum is for people to ask for advice on what road product they should purchase, maybe we should change the name to the “Road Buying Advice – DON’T and go on holiday/get coaching instead” Forum
OP - My thoughts are, get deep wheels if you have another pair of shallow wheels as back-up which you can swap in when the wind is too much for the deep ones, if not you will find yourself skipping riding because you don’t want to ride the deep wheels in blowy conditions. If you don’t have a spare set of wheels and can’t afford to buy a set as well as the deep rimmed bike then get Di2 with the shallow rims as you can ride in any condition. If you can then get the deep rimmed bike and buy another set of spare shallow rimmed wheels for those bad condition days.
I will concede though that good cycling clothing does make a difference to riding in bad conditions, but as the OP says he has those already.Obsessed is a word used by the lazy to describe the dedicated!0 -
Good to see that the Clarion Club/Socialism 1950s stylee is still alive and well on the Bikeradar forum... :roll: :roll:FFS! Harden up and grow a pair0
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Why not confuse the masses on here and heaven forbid........buy both!!
Blow the so called "budget", don't go on that "memory making" trip, and take loads of selfies of yourself riding the "blingster" round your local industrial estates!!! SORTED!!!
Or.......ignore the advice totally and fall for the slickest marketing, which is how we humans justify 90% of the stuff we buy anyway !!0 -
I'll stick my nose into this and say get Di2. Reason? You can get better aero wheels at a later date, keep the original wheels for wet days then you have best of both.WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
Find me on Strava0 -
Much like buying an F1 car will NOT make you a great driver, buying a pro bike will NOT make you a pro rider as the OP hopes it will. Or maybe the OP knows this, as I would think. Therefore the OP hopes to at least look like a pro. That's called vanity.TurboTommy wrote:dennisn wrote:defride wrote:Vanity purchase? No chance, the right tool for the job.
I think it is a vanity purchase. Just because you've bought thousands of dollars of tools doesn't mean that you know how to use them. Right tool for the job? Absolutely. Question really is, can you use it? You can spend millions on an F-1 car, but I doubt you can drive it. Of course it's vanity. You want to think you're good enough. And maybe get a few wows from people, but it will be for the bike. Not the way you're able to use it. You'll have to convince yourself that you're this great climber, because no one else will be. Regardless of the bike, you won't be this great climber that you aspire to. More to it than that.
Yes excellent comparison...F1 cars and bike components... I for one never dare put my aero wheels on my bike unless my support team is in attendance.0 -
Anyone remember the OPs question?
"If your budget only stretches to either Aero Wheels or Electronic Shifting which one would you go for?"0 -
Alex99 wrote:Anyone remember the OPs question?
"If your budget only stretches to either Aero Wheels or Electronic Shifting which one would you go for?"
It's a form of window shopping
Personally I would say aero wheels, just because they at least have the potential to make you measurably faster, electronic shifting just makes the riding experience a bit easier.0
