Training with a HRM

feisty

Despite having had a HRM for around 6 months I've never really thought about how to use it.

I plan to do a FTHR test and use that to calculate my zones using the formula on the British Cycling website

I'm training for a mount ventoux trip (and also the Tour of the Peaks). I'm guessing the point of knowing ones FTHR is that I shouldn't exceed that up Ventoux if I want to make it all the way to the top.

Is there a %fthr one should aim for on a climb like that?

StillGoing

Riding up a long steep incline is going to see you exceed your FTHR. It's a fact of life that the bigger the exertion the harder your heart has to work. The more your muscles tire, the worse it gets. Even if you slowed to a virtual crawl, you'd struggle to keep within your intended range. Your heart rate is also effected by outside influences such as diet, tiredness, illness, temperature. If you want to stay within your range ability, either buy or hire a powermeter and use your functional power as the guide as that is not effected by outside influences. Your FP is constant.

https://youtu.be/GKoLdOTdtac

g00se

Effectively, your functional/threshold HR and power indicate the same amount of effort. Most of us can't afford a power meter so HR is the next best thing.

For a long ride, at the same effort, your HR will slowly increase - it's referred to as creep - but it's generally assumed that if you work at or below your threshold HR, you can keep going for at least an hour.

So training at, just above and just below (sweetspot) threshold is reasonable preparation. You'll need to get used to going into the red as it's bound to happen as slopes kick up - but know when you have to and for how long you can do it.

But most importantly, know how threshold feels - and also 'sweetspot' - which is just below threshold and a great pace to train at. On a bad day, your HR will be higher than you expect, or your garmin will pack up, or you'll be feeling good and want to push it. If you can ride around this limit by perceived exertion, you'll know when to push on, to hold back or to take a break and a few photos.

g00se

Also, the type of 'hill' will have an influence. In the UK, most hills tend to be more short and sharp. You can afford to go into the red for a while. Training for these could involve hill intervals and VO2max work. For training for alpine climbs in the UK, look to do threshold or TT-type efforts as these tend to be a more constant slope for 10-20km - so effort is more constant over a long period.

feisty

Thanks all. Very helpful

Ste_S

By all means have an idea of your threshold heart rate, but more importantly recognise the feeling that you get when at that HR. HR is is variable with conditions (sleep/temp/caffeine/illness etc) and riding properly at threshold will see your heart rate start lower than your actual threshold then drift through to above it.

Once you're used to it, train at Perceived Exertion. Alternatively, get a power meter.

pastryboy

Problem with a HRM for me is my heart rate shoots up as soon as I hit any sort of incline. I normally just use it as a warning if I am trying to take it easy I'll ease off as soon as it hits 85%.Works well indoors though.

ForumNewbie

pastryboy wrote:

Problem with a HRM for me is my heart rate shoots up as soon as I hit any sort of incline. I normally just use it as a warning if I am trying to take it easy I'll ease off as soon as it hits 85%.Works well indoors though.

If my HR shoots up when I hit an incline it's because I'm putting in too much effort/using too much energy at the start of the hill to try and maintain speed. By monitoring my HR, it enables me to pace myself better up a hill, and save more energy for the rest of the ride.

sloppyschleckonds

pastryboy wrote:

Problem with a HRM for me is my heart rate shoots up as soon as I hit any sort of incline.

I find the best thing for this is to improve fitness, lose weight and increase functional threshold power.

jgsi

It's a bit 1980s or a 10k club runner with short shorts thing though aint it, really.. if you think about it.. ;-)

mamba80

Not really, most sports cant measure power output at all and HR and pace is all they have

i used to train with a PM and it took all the fun out of bike riding, doing it properly is very tiresome (for me) however i do like power on a turbo - u can still make big gains from HR but you must couple it with RPE/Speed whatever, on its own, its very variable.

pastryboy

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

pastryboy wrote:

Problem with a HRM for me is my heart rate shoots up as soon as I hit any sort of incline.

I find the best thing for this is to improve fitness, lose weight and increase functional threshold power.

FTP was over 4 w/kg last time I checked it so not unfit or fat. Heart rate just jumps to 90+ after about 10-15 seconds of climbing.

markhewitt1978

pastryboy wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

pastryboy wrote:

Problem with a HRM for me is my heart rate shoots up as soon as I hit any sort of incline.

I find the best thing for this is to improve fitness, lose weight and increase functional threshold power.

FTP was over 4 w/kg last time I checked it so not unfit or fat. Heart rate just jumps to 90+ after about 10-15 seconds of climbing.

90%? Depends what sort of climbing I guess, perhaps you're just putting out too much power rather than shifting down and easing into it?

_HENDO_

If power meter isn't an option then use your Heart Rate to learn where your threshold is for constant output is. That would be most sensible option.

Heart rate is useful as a guide of how hard your working but not as precise as a power meter. Clients I work with who have power meters improve more quickly and can train more specifically, however they're not as affordable as a HR monitor.

pastryboy

So power meter arrived today...

Was doing about 250-260w on the flat which was nice and comfortable then 755w as I hit the first incline and 330w for thirty seconds or so of it then 488w start and 310w average across the next incline.

Something to work on I think and not that surprising my heart rate jumps.

sloppyschleckonds

pastryboy wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

pastryboy wrote:

Problem with a HRM for me is my heart rate shoots up as soon as I hit any sort of incline.

I find the best thing for this is to improve fitness, lose weight and increase functional threshold power.

FTP was over 4 w/kg last time I checked it so not unfit or fat. Heart rate just jumps to 90+ after about 10-15 seconds of climbing.

How do you know 4w/kg without a Powermeter?

pastryboy

Gym with a wattbike.

markhewitt1978

pastryboy wrote:

So power meter arrived today...

Was doing about 250-260w on the flat which was nice and comfortable then 755w as I hit the first incline and 330w for thirty seconds or so of it then 488w start and 310w average across the next incline.

Something to work on I think and not that surprising my heart rate jumps.

Yup, power + HRM helps with pacing so that you're not pumping out 755W then blowing up and ending up slower than you otherwise would. It'll take quite a few rides before you get to know that yeah, I can go 300W here for about 5 minutes and my HR goes to 165.

I've seen it written that the best way for a longish hill is just to settle in and keep a constant wattage output and cadence ignoring any changes in speed. Not sure if that's going to always be optimal but something to think about.

ForumNewbie

markhewitt1978 wrote:

I've seen it written that the best way for a longish hill is just to settle in and keep a constant wattage output and cadence ignoring any changes in speed. Not sure if that's going to always be optimal but something to think about.

Yes, and if you've not got a Power Meter, just try to keep a steady Heart Rate. If the hill get steeper and my HR starts to go up, I try to slow my cadence a bit so my HR doesn't go too high and I blow up.

markhewitt1978

ForumNewbie wrote:

Yes, and if you've not got a Power Meter, just try to keep a steady Heart Rate. If the hill get steeper and my HR starts to go up, I try to slow my cadence a bit so my HR doesn't go too high and I blow up.

Indeed, you just have to supplement that with perceived effort and knowing that your HR is going to take a while to react to what you're doing at the time, but once you've been riding with HR for a good while you get to know what your easy, threshold and maximum effort levels look like.

I certainly learned that I was potentially going too hard on the hills leaving myself too tired to properly attack the flat sections. Although the whole area of when you should put your power out and when you should rest is a complex one.