4iiii Power Meter

solstice21

Anyone running 1 of these? Seems a good deal @~£250 and same/similar to stages. Not too worried about single sided, just want accurate!

Thanks

src1

They're very good, but don't forget to add import tax/duty/handling to that price.

solstice21

SRC1 wrote:

They're very good, but don't forget to add import tax/duty/handling to that price.

Using a code I can get for $360 for box posted and pre-paid return, I understand that I'd then pay return shipping, import duty, etc. This should be around $65 so £310 'all in' still seems as cheap for a PM.

imposter2.0

Solstice21 wrote:

Anyone running 1 of these? Seems a good deal @~£250 and same/similar to stages. Not too worried about single sided, just want accurate!

Accuracy is nothing without reliability - although it may also have that...

nigeldoyle

I've been running one for about 8 months. It's accurate and reliable.

StillGoing

Solstice21 wrote:

SRC1 wrote:

They're very good, but don't forget to add import tax/duty/handling to that price.

Using a code I can get for $360 for box posted and pre-paid return, I understand that I'd then pay return shipping, import duty, etc. This should be around $65 so £310 'all in' still seems as cheap for a PM.

It's a lot of money for a single sided powermeter and is it still the case that you've got to send off your crank arm for them to install? I was on the reserve list for the 4iiii when it was first being developed for release, but there were so many set backs with it, I got a refund and opted for Power2max. More money yes, but established, readings for both sides and excellent customer service. If your budget is limited, I'd see what deals you can get from the second hand market on double sided powermeters first.

Anonymous

I really considered one of these for a long time. I looked everywhere to get one but I couldn't find a reliable seller. Add now that the prices of both Stages and Pioneer have come right down recently the 4iiii's looks less desirable.

The amount of pedal mounted meters on the horizon like Brim Brothers and Limits (if it ever materialises) adding to Garmin Vector will probably dominate the more affordable corner of the market as they swap from bike to bike so easily while offering dual side metering.

cal_stewart

philthy3 wrote:

Solstice21 wrote:

SRC1 wrote:

They're very good, but don't forget to add import tax/duty/handling to that price.

Using a code I can get for $360 for box posted and pre-paid return, I understand that I'd then pay return shipping, import duty, etc. This should be around $65 so £310 'all in' still seems as cheap for a PM.

It's a lot of money for a single sided powermeter and is it still the case that you've got to send off your crank arm for them to install? I was on the reserve list for the 4iiii when it was first being developed for release, but there were so many set backs with it, I got a refund and opted for Power2max. More money yes, but established, readings for both sides and excellent customer service. If your budget is limited, I'd see what deals you can get from the second hand market on double sided powermeters first.

Think your sums are wrong. It's cost of item so 360 + cost of postage, then it's 20% vat and 4% import tax iirc.

solstice21

No, 360 dollars is around 250 pounds. But yes, import duty, shipping, etc would be another 50 - 60notes.

cal_stewart

Roger, however I think once postage is factored in I think you're looking at close to $100 in tax. My 10p worth is I think 4iiii will come into its own if it delivers on its plans for dual sided, cracks carbon cranks. Hopefully the home install kits which was the original idea will come on line soon. Also they're sponsoring EQS this year

solstice21

philthy3 wrote:

Solstice21 wrote:

SRC1 wrote:

They're very good, but don't forget to add import tax/duty/handling to that price.

Using a code I can get for $360 for box posted and pre-paid return, I understand that I'd then pay return shipping, import duty, etc. This should be around $65 so £310 'all in' still seems as cheap for a PM.

It's a lot of money for a single sided powermeter and is it still the case that you've got to send off your crank arm for them to install? I was on the reserve list for the 4iiii when it was first being developed for release, but there were so many set backs with it, I got a refund and opted for Power2max. More money yes, but established, readings for both sides and excellent customer service. If your budget is limited, I'd see what deals you can get from the second hand market on double sided powermeters first.

Looked at P2M and would happily use. Have shimano on my bikes though and the price set up for that looked around 600 pounds.

spasypaddy

power2max on rotor 3d24 cranks

frisbee

Solstice21 wrote:

Looked at P2M and would happily use. Have shimano on my bikes though and the price set up for that looked around 600 pounds.

+ chainrings and bottom bracket (because FSA chainsets don't quite fit Shimano ones).

And its FSA, which are a bit cack generally in my experience.

thomasmorris

The FSA Gossamer will fit a Shimano BB. You can also get shimano 4-bolt compatible P2M so you can still use your shimano rings. Yet if swapping regularly between bikes the gossamer to shimano BB fit needs some persuasion. I believe the Rotor3d24 fits well though... but are more expensive.

The gossamer aren't the lightest cranks, but I can't feel that they are any less stiff than my Shimano cranks. The pre-load bolt is poorly designed though. Comes undone and is made out of very soft aluminium.

If I had my time again I would see value in the P2M with rotor cranks. Unfortunately the interface between cranks and PM is different, so you can't upgrade later. The P2M with rotor 3D cranks is ~£680 so about £100 more than Quarq riken so that may become a consideration for some people at this price point (and may also want to consider the cheaper single sided systems to (rotor, stages etc.).

When I was buying a power meter, the P2M on gossamer was by far the cheapest device (£530), and it measured total power, so was an obvious choice. I think if 4iiii could get the dual sided precision to a price point somewhere near the P2M with rotor cranks then that would be a great option (real total power and real L/R balance). Then if they could get the single sided precision to less than P2M with Gossamer cranks then it maybe beat that on interchangeability and price, even if it isn't 'true total power'.

cal_stewart

The original plan with 4iii is the user installs at home onto his own cranks

StillGoing

Cal_Stewart wrote:

The original plan with 4iii is the user installs at home onto his own cranks

Didn't come to fruition though resulting in buyers having to send off their original crank arm in exchange for one with the device glued on. Wasn't compatible with carbon crank arms last time I looked either, but that was a while ago when I opted to just go down the P2M route.

solstice21

Cheers for the p2m insight thomasmorris.

When i contacted 4iiii they said they're still toying with the idea of self installation.

Basically I'm training for 2nd season of tt 's and currently train on laptop using vpower.I'd like a power meter for tt bike that could also go on summer bike without breaking bank.

Anonymous

Solstice21 wrote:

Cheers for the p2m insight thomasmorris.

When i contacted 4iiii they said they're still toying with the idea of self installation.

Basically I'm training for 2nd season of tt 's and currently train on laptop using vpower.I'd like a power meter for tt bike that could also go on summer bike without breaking bank.

If both bikes use same bb type I would get a stages. Even if you need to swap the whole chainset over its a 2 minute job.

solstice21

Maglia Rosa wrote:

Solstice21 wrote:

Cheers for the p2m insight thomasmorris.

When i contacted 4iiii they said they're still toying with the idea of self installation.

Basically I'm training for 2nd season of tt 's and currently train on laptop using vpower.I'd like a power meter for tt bike that could also go on summer bike without breaking bank.

If both bikes use same bb type I would get a stages. Even if you need to swap the whole chainset over its a 2 minute job.

Hence the interest in 4iiii. Sames as Stages - £200 cheaper.

Anonymous

Solstice21 wrote:

Maglia Rosa wrote:

Solstice21 wrote:

Cheers for the p2m insight thomasmorris.

When i contacted 4iiii they said they're still toying with the idea of self installation.

Basically I'm training for 2nd season of tt 's and currently train on laptop using vpower.I'd like a power meter for tt bike that could also go on summer bike without breaking bank.

If both bikes use same bb type I would get a stages. Even if you need to swap the whole chainset over its a 2 minute job.

Hence the interest in 4iiii. Sames as Stages - £200 cheaper.

I understand that but since you have the problems buying in the uk added to fitting issues compared to a proven tested and reliable device with excellent warranty cover I would rather pay the extra 200 - which is actually a lot less than that now as Stages and Pioneer have both dropped their prices recently. You can get a Stages for under 500 now.

cal_stewart

philthy3 wrote:

Cal_Stewart wrote:

The original plan with 4iii is the user installs at home onto his own cranks

Didn't come to fruition though resulting in buyers having to send off their original crank arm in exchange for one with the device glued on. Wasn't compatible with carbon crank arms last time I looked either, but that was a while ago when I opted to just go down the P2M route.

Believe it was to do with the glue they where using and you having to send crank to them is only an interim measure till the issues are sorted. Thing their hoping on dual sided and carbon by Xmas

StillGoing

Cal_Stewart wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

Cal_Stewart wrote:

The original plan with 4iii is the user installs at home onto his own cranks

Didn't come to fruition though resulting in buyers having to send off their original crank arm in exchange for one with the device glued on. Wasn't compatible with carbon crank arms last time I looked either, but that was a while ago when I opted to just go down the P2M route.

Believe it was to do with the glue they where using and you having to send crank to them is only an interim measure till the issues are sorted. Thing their hoping on dual sided and carbon by Xmas

Sending the crank off has been going on for a good year or so now though. Doesn't look like any quick resolution is on the horizon.

thomasmorris

Maglia Rosa wrote:

Solstice21 wrote:

Maglia Rosa wrote:

Solstice21 wrote:

Cheers for the p2m insight thomasmorris.

When i contacted 4iiii they said they're still toying with the idea of self installation.

Basically I'm training for 2nd season of tt 's and currently train on laptop using vpower.I'd like a power meter for tt bike that could also go on summer bike without breaking bank.

If both bikes use same bb type I would get a stages. Even if you need to swap the whole chainset over its a 2 minute job.

Hence the interest in 4iiii. Sames as Stages - £200 cheaper.

I understand that but since you have the problems buying in the uk added to fitting issues compared to a proven tested and reliable device with excellent warranty cover I would rather pay the extra 200 - which is actually a lot less than that now as Stages and Pioneer have both dropped their prices recently. You can get a Stages for under 500 now.

You don't hear many good things about stages reliability though. I know 4 people who have them, and all but one has had problems. Plus, you see a lot of issues online. On top of that I have 6-8% power imbalance. So when I was buying (over a year ago now) the P2M on Gossamer cranks was reportedly very reliable and measured total power, and was slightly cheaper than a stages = no brainer.

The price of stages has now come down to around £460 for 105 cranks. However, for me I think the p2m still has better reported reliability and measures total power, which is worth the extra ~£100 over stages.

What bottom brackets do you have on your two bikes? My issues with swapping cranks over has been specifically with the tight fit of on a wheels manufacturing BBright. If both your bikes will fit a FSA BB then transferring between bikes is really very simple.

You say you doing time trails. If you have any plans to do aero testing using the PM then you might find the changes in position alter you L/R balance, which adds quite a bit of error to your testing if using single sided power. .

Anonymous

thomasmorris wrote:

Maglia Rosa wrote:

Solstice21 wrote:

Maglia Rosa wrote:

Solstice21 wrote:

Cheers for the p2m insight thomasmorris.

When i contacted 4iiii they said they're still toying with the idea of self installation.

Basically I'm training for 2nd season of tt 's and currently train on laptop using vpower.I'd like a power meter for tt bike that could also go on summer bike without breaking bank.

If both bikes use same bb type I would get a stages. Even if you need to swap the whole chainset over its a 2 minute job.

Hence the interest in 4iiii. Sames as Stages - £200 cheaper.

I understand that but since you have the problems buying in the uk added to fitting issues compared to a proven tested and reliable device with excellent warranty cover I would rather pay the extra 200 - which is actually a lot less than that now as Stages and Pioneer have both dropped their prices recently. You can get a Stages for under 500 now.

You don't hear many good things about stages reliability though. I know 4 people who have them, and all but one has had problems. Plus, you see a lot of issues online. On top of that I have 6-8% power imbalance. So when I was buying (over a year ago now) the P2M on Gossamer cranks was reportedly very reliable and measured total power, and was slightly cheaper than a stages = no brainer.

The price of stages has now come down to around £460 for 105 cranks. However, for me I think the p2m still has better reported reliability and measures total power, which is worth the extra ~£100 over stages.

What bottom brackets do you have on your two bikes? My issues with swapping cranks over has been specifically with the tight fit of on a wheels manufacturing BBright. If both your bikes will fit a FSA BB then transferring between bikes is really very simple.

You say you doing time trails. If you have any plans to do aero testing using the PM then you might find the changes in position alter you L/R balance, which adds quite a bit of error to your testing if using single sided power. .

I have heard many problems with all sorts of power meters and the G2 version of the stages is more reliable than the original. Most issues with Stages were either water ingress - now fixed on G2 and zeroising which is a firmware update in most cases. P2M will still cost you mopre than the base price you see on the website as you still need to factor in the cost of chainrings which are not supplied - same as can be seen on Rotor lower end meters. I looked at the Powertap chainrings but you end up buying more cos they are an item that wears - another £100 for replacements. Stages you buy it once and thats it. The 6-8% power imbalance is a fallacy. you get 2% at most or I am very sure Team Sky would not be using them especially when you consider their team captain can barely lift his eyes away from his readings from one stage to the next.

thomasmorris

You don't have to buy anything extra with P2M that you wouldn't with stages. You should be able to keep using whichever rings and bottom bracket you currently have.

Or do those prices for stages come with a complete chainset and bottom bracket too?

Anonymous

thomasmorris wrote:

You don't have to buy anything extra with P2M that you wouldn't with stages. You should be able to keep using whichever rings and bottom bracket you currently have.

Or do those prices for stages come with a complete chainset and bottom bracket too?

That depends on your current chainset. If you run Shimano 4 hole system it won't fit their chainrings.

Stages will fit onto many existing chainsets. One for one swap with left crank arm. The Sram version will fit ANY sram chainset. Same goes for the shimano version. They have added carbon and campag versions to the line up so no you dont have to buy any extra components if you match your chainset correctly.

Power2max prices are gossamer for 690 euros. No chainrings or bb. You want them you pay extra.if you want to use older ones they need to be 5 hole system.

One othet thing is the extra weight. Gossamer is heavy and clunky. Stages adds a few gramms to already well made components. A dura ace chainset is light and beautifully made add a few extra gramms with a very subtle meter on the arm or add mega heavy ugly crank based power meters. Rotor srm and p2m all look ugly as sin.

thomasmorris

Sorry, I saw the press photos of a four bolt p2m and assumed they were now making them... just checked their website and it seems not. So you're right, if you already have shimano 4 bolt crankset then you'll need new chainrings.

However, for the majority of people with 5-bolt chainsets your exisiting rings will fit.

I will say the praxis rings are very good though, and for 99eur (£77) that will leave you with a complete shimano crankset which you can use on another bike or sell to offset the cost.

You wouldn't need to buy bottom brackets either. However, if you plan on swapping regularly between bikes and are getting the gossamer cranks it may be easier to use FSA BBs.

thomasmorris

p.s. I agree the gossamer is a heavy crankset. However, I'd rather carry the extra 150g and have a more accurate PM.

4iiii and Stages only measures left side and estimates total power from that. If your balance is variable (which is the case for me) then this reduces accuracy. I wouldn't have confidence that my left right balance stays the same in different positions either, so a left sided power meter wouldn't be my choice for aero testing either.

Then on top of that stages numbers is affected by non-round chainrings, which P2M aren't. I'm not sure if 4iiii is effected?

For me, it seems a shame to invest money in power to measure performance, then have the question marks hanging over it in terms of reliability, L/R balance etc. So for me, for stages or 4iiii to compete with with P2M it would have to be much cheaper... currently stages is only marginally cheaper.

Like I said up thread, if 4iiii (or stages) can get a dual sided power meter out for less than the higher spec crank options from P2M, then that would be a genuine option as it offers something extra at that price point (for true left / right you need vectors, powertap pedals, infocrank which are all around £1000)

solstice21

thomasmorris wrote:

Maglia Rosa wrote:

Solstice21 wrote:

Maglia Rosa wrote:

Solstice21 wrote:

Cheers for the p2m insight thomasmorris.



What bottom brackets do you have on your two bikes? My issues with swapping cranks over has been specifically with the tight fit of on a wheels manufacturing BBright. If both your bikes will fit a FSA BB then transferring between bikes is really very simple.

You say you doing time trails. If you have any plans to do aero testing using the PM then you might find the changes in position alter you L/R balance, which adds quite a bit of error to your testing if using single sided power. .

Both bikes use shimano fit, TT bike external, CR1 pressfit BB386 or whatever it's called so swapping a chainset would be no more trouble than changing a crank arm (providing BB fit was fine).

Got me thinking now about getting a crank based PM. Bloody big step up in price though. Pedal based PM's are still too expensive for now and I wouldn't be interested in anything that'd widen my feet like the Bepro.

thomasmorris

I seems that the target RRP for the dual sided 4iiii is $749.99, so ~£540.

If I were buying now I'd contact 4iiii and find out when that is likely to come out.

Its similar price to a P2M on Gossamer cranks, but the dual sided 4iiii should give true L/R balance, be much lighter and fit to your existing cranks. It remains to be seen how 'buggy' the dual sided 4iiii will be though.

srendell

I've been waiting for the 4iiii double sided to come out for ages, and in the most recent thing I can find from DC Rainmaker it says they are expecting to be releasing it in early 2016, so I would have expected to hear something by now.
I'm starting to get impatient and am being drawn towards the p2m with FSA Gossamer or Quarq Riken but the trouble with these is that they rely on having 5 bolt chainrings which is a standard I can see fading away in a couple of years (Shimano, Campag and FSA all on 4 bolt so how long until SRAM join?...) and I don't want to be buying a PM only to be struggling for new chainrings a couple of years down the line....
All the other options are either underproven, don't measure total power, are prone to breaking or fix you to a specific wheel... Given all the progress why aren't the PM industry able to make something which suits me?!