Assange

Pross

Can anyone explain this UN decision to me? As far as I can tell the police wanted to speak with him regarding alleged serious crimes (ignoring the US with the political side of things) and rather than let the legal process run its course he opted to seek sanctuary in the embassy of a country he has no affiliation to. Surely the only thing restricting his free movement is his own desire to avoid facing the justice system. I'm surprised he's even requested a ruling let alone the decision of those who reviewed the case. I could understand if it was all in relation to the US attempts to get their claws into him but the whole issue in Sweden seems like a genuine criminal allegation that he should at least be questioned about.

forehead

Have the Swedes not indicated that they would gladly hand him over to the 'mericans once they are done with him?*

*may have imagined that.

BelgianBeerGeek

Assange is a knob. Anyone claiming asylum, then claiming they are a prisoner, is a knob.
The UN are talking balls. There is no "house arrest" in the UK. Being under arrest is when a copper grips you and says "You're under arrest".
Assange should stay put and shut up, or leave. Then he can be arrested by this third world country with it's appalling human rights record. The ponce.

slowmart

A European arrest warrant is a powerful piece of paper which obliges the state to act.

By his actions Assange has showed himself to be overflowing in self interest and is ready to hide behind a fig leaf of a legal technicality while refusing to answer the authorities on a criminal matter. Yes we all know Sweden as a oppressive regime with poor human rights.

DeVlaeminck

£12million and counting keeping tabs on him - how is that in our interest - take a gamble worst case is he gets away to Ecuador and the CIA can kidnap him.

mamba80

Isn't it about that Sweden would or might send him to the USA, where the charges he faces, carry the death penalty? regardless of the rape allegation outcome.

if the UK government is willing to waste £12m or whatever, then more fool them or us! presumably, he could nt have the left the country that easily and if he could, then there is where that 12m should be spent.

slowmart

you have to admire Putin, he just whacks the individual.

Mind you he's ex KGB and they terrorise the terrorists.

slowmart

mamba80 wrote:

Isn't it about that Sweden would or might send him to the USA, where the charges he faces, carry the death penalty? regardless of the rape allegation outcome.

if the UK government is willing to waste £12m or whatever, then more fool them or us! presumably, he could nt have the left the country that easily and if he could, then there is where that 12m should be spent.

Or the allegations of rape he faces in Sweden?

We could forget about the European arrest warrant as it's inconvenient?

verylonglegs

What were the greatest revelations in the wikileaks scandal? I ask because at the time when it first hit the news I thought he'd basically revealed that behind each others backs foreign deparments slag each other off, hardly shocking. Did I miss any real game changing leaks in there? If not then I view him now in the same way as I did then, bit of a plank who put himself in the firing line without any real cause. I mean, if you are going to try and make a mug of the US then at least give us something worthwhile.

kingstonian

mamba80 wrote:

Isn't it about that Sweden would or might send him to the USA, where the charges he faces, carry the death penalty? regardless of the rape allegation outcome.

if the UK government is willing to waste £12m or whatever, then more fool them or us! presumably, he could nt have the left the country that easily and if he could, then there is where that 12m should be spent.

The courts instructed him to not leave the country, but by hiding away in the embassy that is exactly what he has done as it is not technically UK soil. He put himself there.

I admire what he did with wiki leaks, but the fact remains he is accused of serious crimes in Sweden and is sheltering in the embassy to ensure he cannot be sent to Sweden to face those accusations.

finchy

verylonglegs wrote:

What were the greatest revelations in the wikileaks scandal? I ask because at the time when it first hit the news I thought he'd basically revealed that behind each others backs foreign deparments slag each other off, hardly shocking. Did I miss any real game changing leaks in there? If not then I view him now in the same way as I did then, bit of a plank who put himself in the firing line without any real cause. I mean, if you are going to try and make a mug of the US then at least give us something worthwhile.

There was the footage of the US helicopter pilot firing on and killing a cameraman. Then there's the Afghan war documents which include the undisclosed killing of Afghan civilians and the use of child prostitutes by US contractors. So nothing major.

Pross

Surely if he's desperate to get out he just needs to convince his Ecuadorian mates to drive a diplomatic car to the front door, bundle him in and then give him an Ecuadorian diplomatic passport. He can then travel where he likes with immunity.

verylonglegs

finchy wrote:

verylonglegs wrote:

What were the greatest revelations in the wikileaks scandal? I ask because at the time when it first hit the news I thought he'd basically revealed that behind each others backs foreign deparments slag each other off, hardly shocking. Did I miss any real game changing leaks in there? If not then I view him now in the same way as I did then, bit of a plank who put himself in the firing line without any real cause. I mean, if you are going to try and make a mug of the US then at least give us something worthwhile.

There was the footage of the US helicopter pilot firing on and killing a cameraman. Then there's the Afghan war documents which include the undisclosed killing of Afghan civilians and the use of child prostitutes by US contractors. So nothing major.

As harsh as it may sound and also as depressing as it may be for me to realise how immune to it I feel but I've read far too much about history to know that they aren't great shocks either. Truly terrible things happen in war zones and for me it still doesn't help me understand what he expected to happenand achieve in revealing such things. What was his end game?

finchy

verylonglegs wrote:

finchy wrote:

verylonglegs wrote:

What were the greatest revelations in the wikileaks scandal? I ask because at the time when it first hit the news I thought he'd basically revealed that behind each others backs foreign deparments slag each other off, hardly shocking. Did I miss any real game changing leaks in there? If not then I view him now in the same way as I did then, bit of a plank who put himself in the firing line without any real cause. I mean, if you are going to try and make a mug of the US then at least give us something worthwhile.

There was the footage of the US helicopter pilot firing on and killing a cameraman. Then there's the Afghan war documents which include the undisclosed killing of Afghan civilians and the use of child prostitutes by US contractors. So nothing major.

As harsh as it may sound and also as depressing as it may be for me to realise how immune to it I feel but I've read far too much about history to know that they aren't great shocks either. Truly terrible things happen in war zones and for me it still doesn't help me understand what he expected to happenand achieve in revealing such things. What was his end game?

Maybe a few prosecutions? Or just to enlighten the public. You might not have been surprised, but people who know nothing except what the newspapers tell them might have been.

verylonglegs

Ideally Finchy I agree with you and it may well have happened once upon a time. But I think you are mistaken in mentioning newspapers, few people read them anymore and the general public are more concerned with celebrity. Assange never stood a chance in attracting support from folk who spend all day looking at facebook. He put his neck on the chopping block for people who couldn't care less.

sungod

personally i'm not keen on assange

but the swedes haven't charged him with any crime, they claim they just want to talk to him, but consistently refuse his offers to do so, for some reason they want physical control of him before talking, why is that?

given his legitimate fear of extradition to the usa, a country where the government has sanctioned abduction, torture and imprisonment for years, without charge or trial, let alone production of evidence, his reluctance to put himself in the hands of people behaving so suspiciously seems perfectly rational

why aren't the abductors and torturers, together with the lawyers and government representatives who approved their actions on trial?

there're also the accusations that uk personnel were present during torture of british subjects, why aren't they on trial?

why isn't the british government requesting extradition of usa torturers?

there's clearly one law for known torturers and another for assange, who's merely accused of a crime

waltdinghy

In all honesty where does all this comment about Assamge relate to or have a place in a forum which is primarily for the benifit of cyclists . There would appear to be a host of other ways of communicating ones social or political opinions . Just a bit brassed off with all this sh1t.

Waltdinghy

Pross

Waltdinghy wrote:

In all honesty where does all this comment about Assamge relate to or have a place in a forum which is primarily for the benifit of cyclists . There would appear to be a host of other ways of communicating ones social or political opinions . Just a bit brassed off with all this sh1t.

Waltdinghy

You do realise this is the Cake Stop part of the forum which is an area to debate off topic, non-cycling issues don't you?

It's probably best you avoid it if discussing non-cycling issues brasses you off. Whatever you do don't go into Bottom Bracket, Road General is probably more to your taste.

Pross

sungod wrote:

personally i'm not keen on assange

but the swedes haven't charged him with any crime, they claim they just want to talk to him, but consistently refuse his offers to do so, for some reason they want physical control of him before talking, why is that?

Surely the Swedes need a chance to question him before they can charge him? I don't know the Swedish justice system but that's certainly the case in the UK, you'd only charge someone having questioned them and agreeing with the CPS that there's sufficient evidence to prosecute.

wishitwasallflat

Pross wrote:

sungod wrote:

personally i'm not keen on assange

but the swedes haven't charged him with any crime, they claim they just want to talk to him, but consistently refuse his offers to do so, for some reason they want physical control of him before talking, why is that?

Surely the Swedes need a chance to question him before they can charge him? I don't know the Swedish justice system but that's certainly the case in the UK, you'd only charge someone having questioned them and agreeing with the CPS that there's sufficient evidence to prosecute.

Yes and they could question him in the embassy, over the phone or via Skype/FaceTime if they want to be able to see him as he answers as he and his lawyers have repeatedly offered - but - they haven't and won't. Despite having questioned around fifty people in countries outside Sweden who are under investigation having been accused they won't do it with Assange and insist he comes to Sweden. Why would that be ... Do they want to go on a nice bike ride with him and have coffee, or, send him of to the USA where he is almost guaranteed to be jailed for life or executed. Fair trial anyone ...

PS If you want to know why the UN Panel made that judgement read the opinion.

Lookyhere

... pretty obvious really, extradition to US and then dissappear into some off shore establishment.

Wise chap to go into the embassy, stupid UK to waste £12m on guarding him.

wishitwasallflat

Maybe Assange is just delaying so President Trump can grant a pardon!

slowmart

wishitwasallflat wrote:

Pross wrote:

sungod wrote:

personally i'm not keen on assange

but the swedes haven't charged him with any crime, they claim they just want to talk to him, but consistently refuse his offers to do so, for some reason they want physical control of him before talking, why is that?

Surely the Swedes need a chance to question him before they can charge him? I don't know the Swedish justice system but that's certainly the case in the UK, you'd only charge someone having questioned them and agreeing with the CPS that there's sufficient evidence to prosecute.

Yes and they could question him in the embassy, over the phone or via Skype/FaceTime if they want to be able to see him as he answers as he and his lawyers have repeatedly offered - but - they haven't and won't. Despite having questioned around fifty people in countries outside Sweden who are under investigation having been accused they won't do it with Assange and insist he comes to Sweden. Why would that be ... Do they want to go on a nice bike ride with him and have coffee, or, send him of to the USA where he is almost guaranteed to be jailed for life or executed. Fair trial anyone ...

PS If you want to know why the UN Panel made that judgement read the opinion.

Yes, Sweden is well known as a state for an odious and unfair justice system. Assange is subject to a criminal investigation and has avoided the responsibility to answer the case set out against him. He's set himself above the law.

Why should Sweden negotiate to interview a suspect in a serious investigation and why would Assange want to set terms for the interview. By his actions he's a coward and fails to live to the same standards he applies to others.

Read the judgement and apply law and the judgment is flawed on so many levels.

Pross

wishitwasallflat wrote:

Pross wrote:

sungod wrote:

personally i'm not keen on assange

but the swedes haven't charged him with any crime, they claim they just want to talk to him, but consistently refuse his offers to do so, for some reason they want physical control of him before talking, why is that?

Surely the Swedes need a chance to question him before they can charge him? I don't know the Swedish justice system but that's certainly the case in the UK, you'd only charge someone having questioned them and agreeing with the CPS that there's sufficient evidence to prosecute.

Yes and they could question him in the embassy, over the phone or via Skype/FaceTime if they want to be able to see him as he answers as he and his lawyers have repeatedly offered - but - they haven't and won't. Despite having questioned around fifty people in countries outside Sweden who are under investigation having been accused they won't do it with Assange and insist he comes to Sweden. Why would that be ... Do they want to go on a nice bike ride with him and have coffee, or, send him of to the USA where he is almost guaranteed to be jailed for life or executed. Fair trial anyone ...

PS If you want to know why the UN Panel made that judgement read the opinion.

So, if they interview him remotely and decide they have sufficient evidence to charge him what happens then? He's safely ensconced in a convenient embassy, do you really think he's going to leave there to stand trial? Maybe all people being accused of a crime should rock up at an embassy with such high regards for their civil rights and demand to be interviewed by Skype? The irony is that this is a man who is seemingly so keen to see (other) people held to account for their actions but won't face up to his own.

Lookyhere

Slowmart wrote:

Yes, Sweden is well known as a state for an odious and unfair justice system. Assange is subject to a criminal investigation and has avoided the responsibility to answer the case set out against him. He's set himself above the law.

Why should Sweden negotiate to interview a suspect in a serious investigation and why would Assange want to set terms for the interview. By his actions he's a coward and fails to live to the same standards he applies to others.

Read the judgement and apply law and the judgment is flawed on so many levels.

Why is it? this is an internationally renowned panel of legal experts, we can't pick and choose who they find upon, even if we cannot see direct comparisions - dont see why you say Coward, the US has imprisoned and tortured people, without due process, some for many years.

"The UN's Working Group on Arbitrary Detention is made up of five legal experts from around the world.
Established in 1991, it has made hundreds of rulings on whether imprisonment or detention is lawful.
High profile complainants include Washington Post journalist Jason Rezaian, who was released in Iran last month.
It also offered an opinion on former pro-democracy President Mohamed Nasheed, released in the Maldives last year, and Myanmar party leader, Aung San Suu Kyi"

slowmart

Lookyhere wrote:

Slowmart wrote:

Yes, Sweden is well known as a state for an odious and unfair justice system. Assange is subject to a criminal investigation and has avoided the responsibility to answer the case set out against him. He's set himself above the law.

Why should Sweden negotiate to interview a suspect in a serious investigation and why would Assange want to set terms for the interview. By his actions he's a coward and fails to live to the same standards he applies to others.

Read the judgement and apply law and the judgment is flawed on so many levels.

Why is it? this is an internationally renowned panel of legal experts, we can't pick and choose who they find upon, even if we cannot see direct comparisions - dont see why you say Coward, the US has imprisoned and tortured people, without due process, some for many years.

Why bring the US into the debate? It's a criminal investigation of rape in Sweden. Hardly a lapdog state under undue influence of the US.

COWARD I see it as appropriate and applicable for his actions. He seeks to mis direct and not answer the legal case against him. He holds up others to high standards yet refuses to stand up to legal scrutiny himself. What other descriptive name would you apply?

The simple fact is the UK has a one sided extradition treaty with the US and it will be much harder for the US to successfully apply and win the legal case in Sweden for extradition. On that basis assange's excuse withers and dies.


As for the UN finding the right wing rag called the guardian has made an informed comment

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -wikileaks"


Takes the UN apart

pinno

Waltdinghy wrote:

In all honesty where does all this comment about Assamge relate to or have a place in a forum which is primarily for the benifit of cyclists . There would appear to be a host of other ways of communicating ones social or political opinions . Just a bit brassed off with all this sh1t.

Waltdinghy

Kim Yong Un rides a bike.

slowmart

Pinno wrote:

Waltdinghy wrote:

In all honesty where does all this comment about Assamge relate to or have a place in a forum which is primarily for the benifit of cyclists . There would appear to be a host of other ways of communicating ones social or political opinions . Just a bit brassed off with all this sh1t.

Waltdinghy

Kim Yong Un rides a bike.

He's a Cnut as well. Do you think the UN will find he's been detained illegally as well?

finchy

Sweden has not made a guarantee that Assange won't be extradited to the USA, where he may face life in prison (the Swedes will not extradite him if he faces the death penalty, so US prosecutors would have to agree not to see execution). I imagine that all of the armchair critics on here would be happy to go to Sweden under his circumstances.

I've got no idea of whether or not he is guilty of the accusations made by the women in Sweden, but it's easy to sit here calling him a coward when you're not the one who's leaked secrets about appalling acts by the world's most powerful country.

pinno

Slowmart wrote:

Pinno wrote:

Waltdinghy wrote:

In all honesty where does all this comment about Assamge relate to or have a place in a forum which is primarily for the benifit of cyclists . There would appear to be a host of other ways of communicating ones social or political opinions . Just a bit brassed off with all this sh1t.

Waltdinghy

Kim Yong Un rides a bike.

He's a Cnut as well. Do you think the UN will find he's been detained illegally as well?

How on earth has John Terry not been detained then?

slowmart

terry has some questionable behaviours but to date hasn't been questioned about an alleged rape.


Hey, but neither has Assange

And that's the problem.