Any ice in Richmond Park today?

shmooster

Any early risers gone through Richmond Park yet? Any ice about? Usually when the Beeb forecast 2 degrees and it's been damp is the dangerous time.

rhodrich

Seemed fine to me this morning.

iPete

No but as this is my first winter going through RP, are there any preferred routes?

i.e is the middle of the park higher risk than the outer roads? Broomfield vs Sawyers..

rhodrich

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19778560#p19778560]iPete[/url] wrote:

No but as this is my first winter going through RP, are there any preferred routes?

i.e is the middle of the park higher risk than the outer roads? Broomfield vs Sawyers..

I would avoid descending Broomfield when there is a risk of ice. I came off there very badly about 20 years ago on black ice, shearing off a pedal, and tearing off half my clothes, on the way to school. The cyclist behind me at the time did exactly the same thing. There's always water on the road there, and when it turns to ice it's impossible to see. Combined with the steepness, and the bend, it's treacherous. I always go via Kingston Hill instead now in the morning, entering via Robin Hood Gate.

I've never had any problems elsewhere. Just be careful on the mini roundabouts, as always, but that's just common sense.

tgotb

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19778560#p19778560]iPete[/url] wrote:

No but as this is my first winter going through RP, are there any preferred routes?

i.e is the middle of the park higher risk than the outer roads? Broomfield vs Sawyers..

The middle of the park is normally gritted/salted (though often not cleared of snow as quickly as the perimeter road). In fact, the roads within the park are often considerably better than some of the roads leading to the park; It's not uncommon to teeter along an icy Ham Gate Avenue after a snowfall, to find the park itself has been completely cleared.

rower63

RP is quite heavily salted, but beware puddles on the grass near the road overflowing into the road. That water will be more or less salt-free and will freeze quicker. It's how I last came off my bike, going through a puddle at around -1 in Feb 2014, realizing as I was in the puddle that there was slush on the far side of it, and bang I was down. As I was sliding, I looked back to find another rider also sliding towards me.
After a few incidents over the past few years, I think the Park Authorities close off access towards Dark and Broomfield Hill quite promptly anyway.
But Rhodrich's advice is good, be extremely careful down Broomfield, it's slightly adverse camber to compound things.
Also the dip/hollow just before Broomfield often traps cold air and has black ice - I saw a Mazda MX-5 slide into the opposite lane in front of me last year there when I hadn't even realized it was cold enough!

veronese68

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19778585#p19778585]Rhodrich[/url] wrote:

Just be careful on the mini roundabouts, as always, but that's just common sense.

The roundabout inside Kingston Gate is bad when it's slippery when going clockwise, see a lot of accidents there and it doesn't have to be icy.

rhodrich

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19778849#p19778849]Veronese68[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19778585#p19778585]Rhodrich[/url] wrote:

Just be careful on the mini roundabouts, as always, but that's just common sense.

The roundabout inside Kingston Gate is bad when it's slippery when going clockwise, see a lot of accidents there and it doesn't have to be icy.

Very true with that one, and you don't even have to be riding a bike to get caught out.

Back in my youth, I drove a 1964 VW Beetle, and lost it on that roundabout. Admittedly, I was probably going too fast for the right hand turn, having descended Dark Hill at a decent pace (but then the speed limit was 30mph then, not 20mph). On reaching the roundabout, I found myself going straight on when I turned the wheel to the right. Beetles are rear engined, with no weight over the front. When my front wheels regained grip on the other side of the roundabout, I suddenly found the back end swinging round like a pendulum. How I avoided any other cars or wooden posts I'll never know!

Was just thinking about how many accidents I've had in the park in over 30 years of riding in it. Learnt to ride a bike on the centre road between Pen Ponds and Ham Gate, and promptly took off half the skin on my right leg within a few days on the same stretch when I came off.
I can also remember being dared to ride down the hill at Ham Gate, off road, without using any brakes (on my Raleigh Grifter). Hit a dip at the bottom, and launched into the air, landing on the ground, with my Grifter landing on top of me a second later.
Then there was the time I was riding to school on my Falcon Black Diamond (which was awesome!), drafting a car going down Broomfield at speed. A deer popped out from behind a tree, the car slammed on its brakes. I slammed on my only working brake, felt a twang as the brake cable snapped, and promptly rammed into the back of the car, smashing the back window with my head. That was the end of that bike.

Richmond Park is a dangerous place! Or it could just have been that I was an immature yoof.....

veronese68

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19778861#p19778861]Rhodrich[/url] wrote:

Richmond Park is a dangerous place! Or it could just have been that I was an immature yoof.....

As was Wimbledon Common and the hills in the area. Also had a Falcon Black Diamond, in black, until some censored pinched it from outside the sweet shop. I occasionally look at them on Fleabay, sorely tempted at times.

rhodrich

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19778913#p19778913]Veronese68[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19778861#p19778861]Rhodrich[/url] wrote:

Richmond Park is a dangerous place! Or it could just have been that I was an immature yoof.....

As was Wimbledon Common and the hills in the area. Also had a Falcon Black Diamond, in black, until some censored pinched it from outside the sweet shop. I occasionally look at them on Fleabay, sorely tempted at times.

As do I! Mine was in light metallic blue, and looked just like this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Falcon-Black-Diamond-24-5-Frame-and-Forks-Made-in-England-/171311081129

In fact, I'm tempted to buy that one! It wouldn't quite be the same though, with the mix of good and bad components that mine had (Front rim was steel, rear rim was aluminium. Weinmann centre pull brakes, mixture of Suntour and Shimano gears, 10 speed friction).... Didn't matter, as it rode so well, and gave me freedom!

All is not lost, as the Weinmann non aero brake levers currently live on on my path bike though!

shmooster

Sawyers can have hidden patches of ice, mate came off last year. Also very true about Broomfield, I came off there a couple of years ago on ice, avoiding a stag.

On the subject of Falcons my mum and Dad had one each, I seem to remember my mums had knurled rims that made a really weird noise when braking.

itboffin

Not RP but here in Windshire this morning i had a complete brain fail and decided to go for an early training ride off the main roads i usually commute on in winter, 2 miles from home and everywhere was covered in black ice, had the censored clenching snap crackle and pop all the way back to the main road and the safety of home.

wont be doing that again in a hurry :?

shmooster

Oh the irony. The forecast was 3 degrees this morning so I didn't worry about ice (you know where this is going) and none of the puddles were frozen. Get to the roundabout at Richmond gate and see a cyclist standing there who shouts to watch the ice but too late. No major damage but everyone who came round on two wheels was off. Apparently Sawyers was even worse.

Can't understand why it doesn't get gritted, maybe it isn't used enough by cyclists?

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/revealed-the-10-most-popular-strava-segments-in-the-uk-last-year-205425

itboffin

I had the butt clenched 1/4 mile tiptoe to the main road this morning

london-red

A guy had an off between Sheen and Roehampton roundabouts this morning as well - didn't look like there would be ice at all, but some fella was adamant there was... Pretty worrying, because the rider came off on a flat, straight bit of road...

rhodrich

It seemed OK for me this morning from Robin Hood Gate to Roehampton gate, but I just saw this on my club forum, which seems to match up with what you guys are saying:

Came a cropper on the Richmond gate roundabout this morning, then all the way down sawyers and closer to Roe gate there was plenty of black ice, saw 2 cycles go down and a motorbike.
Then Broomfield hill was uncycle-able, basically gave up and took the mtb path. Saw a few come off there and along to Kingston gate too. Lethal.
Have a humongous Haematoma on my thigh/censored and have pulled an inner hamstring.

rower63

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19779215#p19779215]London-Red[/url] wrote:

A guy had an off between Sheen and Roehampton roundabouts this morning as well - didn't look like there would be ice at all, but some fella was adamant there was... Pretty worrying, because the rider came off on a flat, straight bit of road...

Yep there most certainly was, and it was indeed on the flat straight bit approaching Roehampton Gate from Sawyers. I felt my back wheel slide a couple of times, thought "is this ice? I can't see it". Then had another bigger moment but just about stayed up, so rolled to a halt and walked the last 100m to the Gate. I passed another couple of riders on the grass who had just gone down. Ice was utterly invisible.

j_mcd

Yep, went down like a sack of sh!t this morning on the stretch before you hit Roehampton Gate. Luckily I wasn't going that fast and the ice actually helped when I hit the ground as I just slid along.

Feeling a bit battered now but nothing broken.

london-red

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19779224#p19779224]J_MCD[/url] wrote:

Yep, went down like a sack of sh!t this morning on the stretch before you hit Roehampton Gate. Luckily I wasn't going that fast and the ice actually helped when I hit the ground as I just slid along.

Feeling a bit battered now but nothing broken.

Was that at about 08.15? Some woman got out her car?

j_mcd

No, it would have been earlier than that, probably around 7:30ish.

dyrlac

Total comedy at Richmond Gate as three of us go down one after another turning onto Sawyers (mine especially so as I was the third and saw exactly what was about to happen).

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19779224#p19779224]J_MCD[/url] wrote:

Luckily I wasn't going that fast and the ice actually helped when I hit the ground as I just slid along.

Yep, saved my skin if not my dignity.

surrey_commuter

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19779206#p19779206]shmooster[/url] wrote:

Oh the irony. The forecast was 3 degrees this morning so I didn't worry about ice (you know where this is going) and none of the puddles were frozen. Get to the roundabout at Richmond gate and see a cyclist standing there who shouts to watch the ice but too late. No major damage but everyone who came round on two wheels was off. Apparently Sawyers was even worse.

Can't understand why it doesn't get gritted, maybe it isn't used enough by cyclists?

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/revealed-the-10-most-popular-strava-segments-in-the-uk-last-year-205425

A bit of thought would lead them to the conclusion that the most popular segments are on the Ride London route.

iPete

Came in via Kingston Gate, all seemed rather odd when I got some wheelspin at the top of Dark Hill, so took rowers advice and stayed away from the side.

Noticed everyone going real slow at Broomfield so took it extra slow going down but it was still a horrible feeling, especially riding fixed on 23c tyres. It was then on the flat run over to Roehampton gate that I could feel the bike sliding but couldn't see any frost or ice. Sketchy.

Massive amount of traffic looking towards Sawers, possible the road work traffic lights but it looked like it might be from downed riders and bikers.

rower63

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19779235#p19779235]J_MCD[/url] wrote:

No, it would have been earlier than that, probably around 7:30ish.

I just about stayed up, then walked on the verge for a while, asked a couple of riders also on the grass if they were OK around 0730, one of whom mentioned his potentially fractured wrist - were you one of those two?

j_mcd

Yep, that was me. Went to hospital yesterday about my knackered wrist, suspected torn ligaments from a previous fall. And then landed on it again today.

Sods law really, but it doesn't seem any worse that it was so might have dodged a bullet there.

rhodrich

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19779252#p19779252]iPete[/url] wrote:

Came in via Kingston Gate, all seemed rather odd when I got some wheelspin at the top of Dark Hill, so took rowers advice and stayed away from the side.

Noticed everyone going real slow at Broomfield so took it extra slow going down but it was still a horrible feeling, especially riding fixed on 23c tyres. It was then on the flat run over to Roehampton gate that I could feel the bike sliding but couldn't see any frost or ice. Sketchy.

Massive amount of traffic looking towards Sawers, possible the road work traffic lights but it looked like it might be from downed riders and bikers.

Well it's really strange that I didn't have any problems along the Priory Lane stretch, if you say that there was black ice there too. Perhaps it's because I ride on 28c tyres, and am quite loaded up? Then again, there were slow moving cars along that stretch this morning that I was overtaking, so I was well away from the edge of the road.

murvis1er

My rear tyre lost traction going down Broomfield corner this morning. Managed to stay rubber side down but not something I'd like to repeat. Was taking it fairly easy as well.

iPete

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19779266#p19779266]Rhodrich[/url] wrote:

Well it's really strange that I didn't have any problems along the Priory Lane stretch, if you say that there was black ice there too. Perhaps it's because I ride on 28c tyres, and am quite loaded up? Then again, there were slow moving cars along that stretch this morning that I was overtaking, so I was well away from the edge of the road.

By that point it was likely a 50/50 paranoia to ice ratio.

rower63

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19779266#p19779266]Rhodrich[/url] wrote:

...Well it's really strange that I didn't have any problems along the Priory Lane stretch, if you say that there was black ice there too. Perhaps it's because I ride on 28c tyres, and am quite loaded up? Then again, there were slow moving cars along that stretch this morning that I was overtaking, so I was well away from the edge of the road.

Priory Lane itself was fine, just the roads in the Park that were black iced.

surrey_commuter

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19779310#p19779310]rower63[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19779266#p19779266]Rhodrich[/url] wrote:

...Well it's really strange that I didn't have any problems along the Priory Lane stretch, if you say that there was black ice there too. Perhaps it's because I ride on 28c tyres, and am quite loaded up? Then again, there were slow moving cars along that stretch this morning that I was overtaking, so I was well away from the edge of the road.

Priory Lane itself was fine, just the roads in the Park that were black iced.

Roehampton Vale to Roehampton Gate is called Priory lane

iPete

This is building my business case for a n+1 Cannondale Slate/gravel bike/CX, something that can take on the MTB track but still be fast on the road.