Are cable disc brakes really this rubbish?

Today I test rode an Arkose 3 2015, with Avid BB7 cable disc brakes. Overall I like the bike.
However, the braking performance was inferior to my summer road bike with 105 rim brakes and greatly inferior to the stopping power of my entry level hydro brakes on my 29er (Voodoo Bizango).
I also test rode the Arkose 4 2015, which has Shimano BR-RS685 brakes and I was impressed by the stopping power available.
I was perhaps expecting that cable discs would be somewhere in between cable rim brakes and entry level hydro MTB brakes.
Are all cable disc brakes really this bad? I wouldn't say the stopping power was really adequate. However the Arkose 4 is beyond budget, even in the sale
.
Or are my expectations simply unrealistic?
However, the braking performance was inferior to my summer road bike with 105 rim brakes and greatly inferior to the stopping power of my entry level hydro brakes on my 29er (Voodoo Bizango).
I also test rode the Arkose 4 2015, which has Shimano BR-RS685 brakes and I was impressed by the stopping power available.
I was perhaps expecting that cable discs would be somewhere in between cable rim brakes and entry level hydro MTB brakes.
Are all cable disc brakes really this bad? I wouldn't say the stopping power was really adequate. However the Arkose 4 is beyond budget, even in the sale

Or are my expectations simply unrealistic?
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But that's friction between the pad and the rotor, what's it got to do with the caliper? Try different pads... ultimately in the wet they all honk
Remember when we were all kids, rims were chrome, brake pads were leather (if you were lucky) and brakes basically didn't work in the wet? Now we all have alloy rims, fancypants SwissStop pads, and rim brakes are great; funny thing is, they're basically doing the same thing as the brakes that didn't work 30 years ago, but subtle improvements in design and materials have made them a whole lot better.
Disk brakes are the same. Some are great, some are pants. Pads are made from a huge variety of materials. Calipers all work differently. Disks all look like they're made from the same material to me, but I'm probably wrong. Some disk brakes are great, some are going to be sh*t. A good caliper brake's going to be way better than a censored disk brake. Given the fact that some caliper brakes are woeful, is it any surprise that some disk brakes are the same?
That removes some noises related to pad vibration, but not the honking in the wet
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We compared last week. My crappy cantilever brake vs his, Front wheel only. Mine stopped in 1/2 the distance of his.
He's looking into it - but its a whole new area to explore - after using rim brakes for decades - its possibly easier staying with rim brakes than having to faff with discs and learning what works or what pads to use etc...
Might be worth putting some on the back face of the disc as well, or use baking paper.
What are they?
Slightly off topic but, since swapping my wheels, sticking new pads on, cleaning the rotors etc, my Deore Hydraulics have gone from very good to really bloody amazing.
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Possibly thermal expansion of the water embedded in the pads as they heat up during braking... It's just a guess, don't crucify me
Not my experance with disks, on a wet MTB ride the gears sound grittier than the disks. My old commute MTB might on a wet day make one honk but that's it, though in fairness neither of my bikes honk often.
Yesterday plenty of the bridleways where more stream than path, plus down hill etc, so disks where getting wet, plus fair bit braking etc. Only times I get a lot of noise is when I have new pads briefly. The trance did that for 30s going down a very steep old tram line, could hear water from vegetation sizzling on the disks after that but no honking!
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And whats the deal with the advice of 'first you must bed them in by doing some hard braking' how is that allowed ?
If you buy a bike - the brakes should work straight off. You'd not accept a car that didn't have working brakes ?
"first you must bed them in by doing some hard braking' is the same advice you'll get with new pads for a car and has been well since cars have had disks.
Disk brakes work not by any friction between the pad and the rotor but between the pad and a layer of deposited pad material on the rotor. In other words, it's the pad material molecularly bonding with pad material that's been left on the rotor. But first you have get some pad material onto the rotor. A few short, sharp braking maneuver's usually helps with that.
Is that these things?
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/shi ... r-ec057443
I've never used then, and never seen them on many bikes.
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I'd say your mate needs to become a better fettler - he's clearly not that good.
And, yes, bedding in brake pads is exactly what you do with cars. In fact, more often than not, brakes that are described as "warped" on cars isn't anything of the sort but pick-up on the disc from the pad because they weren't bedded in properly. Your mate probably isn't a good car fettler either.
Thanks.
Meanwhile, in the real world, there seem to be a whole lot of people who have trouble setting them up correctly; it seems that rim brakes that have been set up by average cyclists often outperform disk brakes that have been set up by average cyclists.
Maybe the answer is that, if you posess MRS's legendary fettling skills, you should put disk brakes on everything. For those of you who don't posess his fettling skills - maybe, just maybe, you might be better off with rim brakes in some cases.
For what it's worth, I have four bikes with disk brakes, four and a half with rim brakes and one with no brakes at all. All the brakes work pretty effectively; the cantis on my pub bike are probably the worst, and the calipers on my road bike are undoubtedly the best. The disks on my cross bikes are less prone to clogging, and the disks on my commuter don't wear out the rims. The disk brakes were more finicky to set up properly than the rim brakes, but require less ongoing maintenance. Hydraulic disks are more finicky to set up than cable disks, but require less ongoing maintenance. Horses for courses.
It's probably a good job that not many people fettle their own cars!!