AD6 vs Ventoux 6
meanredspider
Posts: 12,337
Ever since I did Alpe D'HuZes (the Alpe x6) summer 2014 I've been wondering what it would be like to do Ventoux 6 times instead. It was triggered by a report done by a guy around my age (50) doing it. I gave myself a year off to actual enjoy my cycling in my 50th year but I'm beginning to get the bug to do the next bigger/harder thing and my mind keeps returning to Ventoux.
Before travelling to Bourg, I'd never ridden in the Alps and I had one practice ride up the hill a couple of days before the event just to test my pacing. Before that, most of my training had been in NL - either long rides in the wind or on my old Tacx Fortius VR turbo with an Alpe video (it struggles to replicate the torque required). Pacing was key to my success and so was losing weight (I rode it at 85kg). The day itself was tough not least of all because the wide range of temps (0C to 33C) and the emotional toughness of a day with the tough side of cancer so prominent.
Ventoux is a very different proposition. For starters I think the hill is harder/longer (again, never been there) and I wouldn't be doing it as an event but just solo (pros and cons to that - I actually prefer to ride solo).
What I'm looking for is a view on what I'd need to consider in taking on Ventoux - especially logistics, weather etc I'm half looking to be talked out of it because I know what it took to conquer the Alpe x6 - but 1.5 years later I'm still wondering about Ventoux so I'm mentally prepared for it.
Constructive input please.
Before travelling to Bourg, I'd never ridden in the Alps and I had one practice ride up the hill a couple of days before the event just to test my pacing. Before that, most of my training had been in NL - either long rides in the wind or on my old Tacx Fortius VR turbo with an Alpe video (it struggles to replicate the torque required). Pacing was key to my success and so was losing weight (I rode it at 85kg). The day itself was tough not least of all because the wide range of temps (0C to 33C) and the emotional toughness of a day with the tough side of cancer so prominent.
Ventoux is a very different proposition. For starters I think the hill is harder/longer (again, never been there) and I wouldn't be doing it as an event but just solo (pros and cons to that - I actually prefer to ride solo).
What I'm looking for is a view on what I'd need to consider in taking on Ventoux - especially logistics, weather etc I'm half looking to be talked out of it because I know what it took to conquer the Alpe x6 - but 1.5 years later I'm still wondering about Ventoux so I'm mentally prepared for it.
Constructive input please.
ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
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Comments
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Sounds a good challenge. Presume you've seen:
http://www.clubcinglesventoux.org/en/
6 ascents using the 3 different routes, twice = 274km and 8800m of ascent.
That's a lot in anyone's book! But 142 people have done it, so it's possible.
You could obviously not do it their way and just (just!?!?!) make 6 ascents up whichever way(s) you wanted. But I'd personally want to be number 143 on the list there!0 -
Sounds a good challenge. Presume you've seen:
http://www.clubcinglesventoux.org/en/
6 ascents using the 3 different routes, twice = 274km and 8800m of ascent.
That's a lot in anyone's book! But 142 people have done it, so it's possible.
You could obviously not do it their way and just (just!?!?!) make 6 ascents up whichever way(s) you wanted. But I'd personally want to be number 143 on the list there!
Yes - I did see this but I've also read it can be quite a faff to engage with the organisation. There's something to be said for doing it different routes - part of the toughness of AD6 is covering the same Tarmac 11 times - some variety would be good. I'm not too fussed about getting my name on a list.
From what I've read, Ventoux is longer but less steep and more unpredictable from a weather point of view - especially the exposure to the Mistral.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
3 ascents of Mont Ventoux, i'm not sure repeating it is an option i d like to take on, i think you d need to pick your weather v carefully, it is either very hot or windy OR both
if i were to do all 6 in one day, then i d make the 3rd and last ascent the Sault, as you ll have a slightly easier climb in the middle and at the end, when your on your belly crawling and have your misses as support too.0 -
meanredspider wrote:[url=<span class= wrote:marcusjb[/url]"]Sounds a good challenge. Presume you've seen:
<span class="skimlinks-unlinked">http://www.clubcinglesventoux.org/en</span>/
6 ascents using the 3 different routes, twice = 274km and 8800m of ascent.
That's a lot in anyone's book! But 142 people have done it, so it's possible.
You could obviously not do it their way and just (just!?!?!) make 6 ascents up whichever way(s) you wanted. But I'd personally want to be number 143 on the list there!
Yes - I did see this but I've also read it can be quite a faff to engage with the organisation. There's something to be said for doing it different routes - part of the toughness of AD6 is covering the same Tarmac 11 times - some variety would be good. I'm not too fussed about getting my name on a list.
From what I've read, Ventoux is longer but less steep and more unpredictable from a weather point of view - especially the exposure to the Mistral.
Doesn't seem that hard - pay your 20 Euros, get your brevet card and frame dossard and off you go. Collect tampons at the control points, job done.
But then I come from the world of randonneuring where all that stuff is par for the course. At least you can pay online for this one and don't have to reach for your cheque book.
I think my problem with not doing it their way, is that any temptation to simply use the easiest ascent is removed.
Anyway, yes, weather is the make or break on Ventoux. I've never done it, but I am passing through Bedoin on a ride in May and will make a judgement call as to whether to risk going up it or just to carry on to my turning point.
Hell of a challenge though. I've done a little less ascent in a day (7000m) in a little less km (240, though I descended from km 190), could I have carried that on for up to 24 hours? Probably. But I was buggered, one of the hardest days on a bike ever. As you'll know from Alpe d-Huez, nothing prepares you for making half a dozen or more big ascents in the proper mountains. A hour or more of big effort, half an hour descending, an hour or more of big effort, half an hour descending, repeat until broken.
Sounds ace!0 -
There was someone on here who was looking at it and I think he was having trouble with signing up or something.
If I were to do it, I'd probably plan a week there and pick a day (like an ascent of Everest
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I don't know that doing the easiest route 6x is too much of a cheat for the first time... But it would get tedious.
I really struggled to eat and drink enough on AD6 - I'd need to rethink that bit. What I would do is get better accommodation too - I was sharing a room (coincidentally with a guy 2 hours younger than me) and I was sleeping on a crappy double bed with only single sheets and some nasty old blankets. If I got 2 hours sleep the night before, I'd be surprised. Not only did we have to wake up very early but we then had to wait an hour or so before being released up the hill.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
On the two longer ascents (Bédouin and Malaucène) you've got two 'hard' unrelenting 10% 3km stretches in the middle. Until you've ridden 1h+ ascents, you've no idea how hard 10% can be. (MRS, you will have, obviously, having done Ad'H six times in a day!)
I'm not sure I'd have the strength - mental or physical, to do such a Herculean challenge - I'd want to do the 3x version first.
And yes, the plan to spend a week there and pick the first good day would be a good one, if you're mad enough to have a go at this.0 -
When I get back down south I'll load Ventoux onto the Tacx Neo and give it a whirl. So far, no-one's done a good job of talking me out of this :roll:briantrumpet wrote:
I'm not sure I'd have the strength - mental or physical
Mental strength is what I have a lot of so I start with almost no doubt that I could do this. The only real question is whether I want to enough to make it happen.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
Why not enter a tough Sportive instead such as the Alpen Brevet in Switzerland or the Oetztaler Radmarathon in Austria?
Both are popular with the Dutch and have got to be more fun than slogging up Ventoux 6 times.0 -
Have you got a time of the year in mind when you might do it? It's always a bit of a gamble - the extremes down there can be quite, er, extreme.
Mental strength is what I have a lot of so I start with almost no doubt that I could do this. The only real question is whether I want to enough to make it happen.0 -
Have you got a time of the year in mind when you might do it? It's always a bit of a gamble - the extremes down there can be quite, er, extreme.
No - that's part of the research - I also need to fit it in around my (car) racing season and family commitments etcrobbo2011 wrote:Both are popular with the Dutch and have got to be more fun than slogging up Ventoux 6 times.
Part of the challenge is less fun more slog Besides, I'm tougher rather than faster. I'm English too ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
If you have flexibility I'd suggest close to but outside either end of the school summer holidays - your odds of having insufferable heat in July and August are quite high - and though that might leave it pleasant at the top, it can be 40C in the lowland for a big chunk of July and August.Have you got a time of the year in mind when you might do it? It's always a bit of a gamble - the extremes down there can be quite, er, extreme.
No - that's part of the research - I also need to fit it in around my (car) racing season and family commitments etc0 -
Yes - September might work - though I know my peak cycling months are Jan to JuneROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0
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From a little while ago: viewtopic.php?f=40003&t=13006276Yes - September might work - though I know my peak cycling months are Jan to June0 -
Ventoux is approximately twice as long an ascent as the Alpe, so you in for a hell of a long day, probably 15-18 hrs ish of riding. Good luck with that. As previously mentioned, the wind at the top could make it impossible p, but if you get a still day that's not too warm then as 142 people have proved, it is possible.Bianchi Infinito CV
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Yup - it's twice as long but not the same average gradient. I paced myself for AD6 though was also driven by schedule of the event - as I said, we were held for about an hour before we could even start. I did the 6500m in around 12 hours. Descents were slower than normal as there was a lot of traffic on the hill and, theoretically at least, we were limited to 40kmh on the descent. In practice, there were times we could exceed that but also times when we were stuck behind large vehicles being escorted down and it was very slow - especially at the hairpins.
I'm under no illusion how hard it would be but I also know I could have trained much harder for AD6 and prepared better. Having AD6 under my belt also gives me a mental advantage. As I say, I'll give Ventoux a try on the Neo (which can, at least, simulate steep inclines at slow pace) and see how it compares.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
Good luck if you decide to go ahead with the challenge, MRS. It would be a fantastic achievement. I've never ridden Alpe d'Huez but I've climbed most of the TDF passes in the Alps over the past 25 years (mostly with a touring bike and camping gear) and I've ridden up Ventoux twice, as well as running up it off-road up the northern face. I love Ventoux. Its shape reminds me of my local hill The Wrekin in Shropshire - but on steroids!
Ventoux from Bedoin is a really tough climb - significantly harder than many alpine cols. Its reputation is well justified. Don't be lulled into a false sense of security by the average percentage of ascent. It's not like a typical alpine pass with very steep sections on hairpin bends and shallower stretches in between where you can recover and use different gears and muscles. The ascent from Bedoin starts pretty gently but it's important not to push too hard in this stretch. Once you get into the trees, the climb is unremitting, with long sections at around 10 per cent and nothing in the way of bends or changes in gradient to give respite. It really is gruelling. After Chalet Reynard, things are a lot easier unless the wind is blowing, as the last stretch is so exposed to the elements.
I climbed Ventoux from Bedoin last year with a 7kg carbon road bike with a 34/29 bottom gear, which I used for most of the stretch in the trees. I got carried away at the start, overtaking several other riders but suffered for my enthusiasm in the forested section, having to stop for a quick piece of bread and jam to give me a boost for the final push. I know you have an 11-32 cassette and I'm sure this will be useful. I was able to remain seated for most of the climb in the trees but it was a strength-sapping grind. The other time I climbed Ventoux was via the Gorge de la Nesque and Sault with camping gear. That's a much less gruelling route.0 -
Just timing-wise... Ad'H took me just under the hour (only once, not 6x), MV (Malauçène) 1h52 (and 30 mins to descend). I'd guess if I were to do it six times, I'd probably allow minimum three hours per ascent/descent. MV descents are faster than Ad'H because of far fewer hairpins, and less traffic.0
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Good luck if you decide to go ahead with the challenge, MRS. It would be a fantastic achievement. I've never ridden Alpe d'Huez but I've climbed most of the TDF passes in the Alps over the past 25 years (mostly with a touring bike and camping gear) and I've ridden up Ventoux twice, as well as running up it off-road up the northern face. I love Ventoux. Its shape reminds me of my local hill The Wrekin in Shropshire - but on steroids!
Ventoux from Bedoin is a really tough climb - significantly harder than many alpine cols. Its reputation is well justified. Don't be lulled into a false sense of security by the average percentage of ascent. It's not like a typical alpine pass with very steep sections on hairpin bends and shallower stretches in between where you can recover and use different gears and muscles. The ascent from Bedoin starts pretty gently but it's important not to push too hard in this stretch. Once you get into the trees, the climb is unremitting, with long sections at around 10 per cent and nothing in the way of bends or changes in gradient to give respite. It really is gruelling. After Chalet Reynard, things are a lot easier unless the wind is blowing, as the last stretch is so exposed to the elements.
I climbed Ventoux from Bedoin last year with a 7kg carbon road bike with a 34/29 bottom gear, which I used for most of the stretch in the trees. I got carried away at the start, overtaking several other riders but suffered for my enthusiasm in the forested section, having to stop for a quick piece of bread and jam to give me a boost for the final push. I know you have an 11-32 cassette and I'm sure this will be useful. I was able to remain seated for most of the climb in the trees but it was a strength-sapping grind. The other time I climbed Ventoux was via the Gorge de la Nesque and Sault with camping gear. That's a much less gruelling route.
I've climbed both AdH and Mont Ventoux a number of times and would pretty much agree with Mercia Man's assessment of the Ventoux. Mont Ventoux is my personal favourite Alpine climb (I've done the ascents from Bedoin and Sault) and I think overall it's probably more difficult that the Alpe. I couldn't imagine doing either six times in a day but I may do the Ventoux triple ascent some time in the next few years with friends. I just turned 60 so it will have to be in the next few years otherwise I don't think I'll make it!
As others have said the weather can be extremely variable on Mont Ventoux and doing it six times is going to span the whole day so you could start near freezing, have 40+ degree heat by midday and then a howling gail by the finish. I remember reading a few years ago of an account of the l'Etape du Tour finishing on the Ventoux and people were being helicoptered off with exposure in July because it was 30 degrees in the valley but snowing at the top.
Best of luck when you do do it and I look forward to your account of derring-do.
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As above, my former fat self did ad and Ventoux in the same week and imo there is a world of difference between them.
Where the steep parts and flat parts come on the hills made a big difference to me. The easy part of V led me to a false sense of 'ease' then the 10% were a shock and really tough, I also had the nagging thought in my head that it was going to get harder from the end of the trees, it doesn't but for me the damage was done. On A the hard part was at the start when you're fresh, it then gets 'easier'.
As you plan and as said by others, knowing what to expect on V and training for it could make a big difference.0 -
That is what I call a challenge.... I've done the cinglé of the Ventoux twice and in total 15 ascents, so I know this mountain a little. Most people are talking about Bedoin as the hardest climb, but I believe that Malaucene is thougher. The Malaucene climb is changing constantly with a very steep part on 2/3 of the climb. Finding some kind of rhythm is impossible.
As already mentioned, especially the wind adds a lot. There are days that you have to fight the ascend and the severe winds in the 'moon' landscape. Last but not least: abundance of wildlife on the Ventoux keeps me from riding (descending) it in the dark.0 -
Why don't you enter the Tour du Mont Blanc instead? Probably similar challenge in terms of climbing, but a bit more interesting than going up and down the same slope endlessly
http://sportcommunication.info/TMB/index.php?lang=ENleft the forum March 20230 -
Why don't you enter the Tour du Mont Blanc instead? Probably similar challenge in terms of climbing, but a bit more interesting than going up and down the same slope endlessly
http://sportcommunication.info/TMB/index.php?lang=EN
I'm not sure. I have to say that I'm not much of a fan of these mass participation types of events - can't quite say why. On most organised rides I prefer to do my own thing (probably spent too long riding on my own in the last 10 years) and pitting myself against the terrain and weather in my own way.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
Why don't you enter the Tour du Mont Blanc instead? Probably similar challenge in terms of climbing, but a bit more interesting than going up and down the same slope endlessly
http://sportcommunication.info/TMB/index.php?lang=EN
I'm not sure. I have to say that I'm not much of a fan of these mass participation types of events - can't quite say why. On most organised rides I prefer to do my own thing (probably spent too long riding on my own in the last 10 years) and pitting myself against the terrain and weather in my own way.
It's not a mass event at all... I can't quite recall the figures, but you are looking at 500 entrants give or take. Over a 330 Km course, you'll be on your own most of the timeleft the forum March 20230 -
Why don't you enter the Tour du Mont Blanc instead? Probably similar challenge in terms of climbing, but a bit more interesting than going up and down the same slope endlessly
http://sportcommunication.info/TMB/index.php?lang=EN
I'm not sure. I have to say that I'm not much of a fan of these mass participation types of events - can't quite say why. On most organised rides I prefer to do my own thing (probably spent too long riding on my own in the last 10 years) and pitting myself against the terrain and weather in my own way.
It's not a mass event at all... I can't quite recall the figures, but you are looking at 500 entrants give or take. Over a 330 Km course, you'll be on your own most of the time
Sorry - I made an assumption based on the title. I will look.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0
