Carbon frame/bike advice.
zefs
Posts: 484
Hello, I've been using a Scott Speedster 20 (2014) since August and I am looking to upgrade to a carbon bike, as I feel it would help me with climbs a bit more which is my weak point. I've ridden a friends Cube carbon bike and I could feel the difference in power requirement as it felt that it rolls a lot easier and it's more leightweight.
The manufacturer's weight data for my Scott is 9.40kg and the upgrades I've done are:
1) Wheels: Fulcrum Racing Quattro
2) Tires: Continental 4 Season 700x23
3) Cassette: Ultegra(12-30T)
4) Chain: Ultegra
Would it be better to sell my current bike (except the wheels) and get a new carbon one or just upgrade the frameset? My budget is around ~1100£ or 1500€ and I want the new bike to weight less than 8kg (I am currently 68kg/1.78cm).
I've been looking at Trek Emonda S frameset and Scott Addict 30, but I think Scott only sells the Addict 10 frameset which is out of budget. Feel free to make suggestions from other manufacturers as well.
What I am trying to achieve is make climbs a bit easier and waste less energy/have an overall easier rolling bike. One note is that my country's roads are terrible, meaning there are a lot of bumbs here and there (don't have any issue dealing with them on my current bike though).
The manufacturer's weight data for my Scott is 9.40kg and the upgrades I've done are:
1) Wheels: Fulcrum Racing Quattro
2) Tires: Continental 4 Season 700x23
3) Cassette: Ultegra(12-30T)
4) Chain: Ultegra
Would it be better to sell my current bike (except the wheels) and get a new carbon one or just upgrade the frameset? My budget is around ~1100£ or 1500€ and I want the new bike to weight less than 8kg (I am currently 68kg/1.78cm).
I've been looking at Trek Emonda S frameset and Scott Addict 30, but I think Scott only sells the Addict 10 frameset which is out of budget. Feel free to make suggestions from other manufacturers as well.
What I am trying to achieve is make climbs a bit easier and waste less energy/have an overall easier rolling bike. One note is that my country's roads are terrible, meaning there are a lot of bumbs here and there (don't have any issue dealing with them on my current bike though).
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Comments
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Have you tried snake oil? I'm 99% certain that the differences you felt are nothing more than placebo effect.0
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Have you tried snake oil? I'm 99% certain that the differences you felt are nothing more than placebo effect.
Comparing an aluminum 9.40kg bike to a Carbon 7.70kg bike could be a placebo effect? I don't know, personally I think there was a difference. I'd want to test a carbon bike in a mountain ride to observe further before investing as well.0 -
Have you tried snake oil? I'm 99% certain that the differences you felt are nothing more than placebo effect.
I agree but if you believe there is a difference that is all that matters.0 -
Does it have to be a carbon bike? How about a lightweight ali bike? My race bike is ali and comes in at 6.40 kg. The fast trainer is ali running old Dura Ace and comes in at 7.00.
You could get an ali bike from somewhere like Canyon/Rose/Planet X for your budget that fits your criteria - or do you really want a carbon bike?Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honoursmithy21 wrote:
He's right you know.0 -
The old adage is that climbs never get easier, you just get faster so it might be worth bearing that in mind and just get used to the fact that climbing hills is always going to be tough.
If you think about some of the figures you quote, just buying a bike that is a couple of kilos less will make the following difference (roughly) in weight:
Current bike + rider = ~77kg
New bike + rider = ~75kg.
So the difference in weight is less than 5%, factor in water bottles, pump, spare tubes, food, etc., and the percentages tumble even further. If you think that will help you fly up hills then crack on and buy a nice shiny new bike. The other alternative is to work on hills and your fitness. There are lots of training programmes out there (the pros do hill reps with some interval sessions as well) but the simplest way is just to ride hills, you will get better but it won't come overnight.0 -
Does it have to be a carbon bike? How about a lightweight ali bike? My race bike is ali and comes in at 6.40 kg. The fast trainer is ali running old Dura Ace and comes in at 7.00.
You could get an ali bike from somewhere like Canyon/Rose/Planet X for your budget that fits your criteria - or do you really want a carbon bike?
It doesn't have to be carbon, but I've read that carbon will also give this smooth/easy rolling ride and is also better on power transfer since it's stiffer. On my current bike I run 700x23 tires and always use 120psi without having issues like harsh ride. In fact I was looking at the Trek Emonda ALR frame which is Aluminum but I am not sure if it's worth giving 900€ when you can buy a similar Carbon frame?
I prefer Aluminum in the sense of it won't crack as easy overtime (if I am not mistaken) but I want the Carbon feel and lightness. Overall the purchase must justify the cost, meaning if the ALR have no difference in comparison to my current setup I wouldn't upgrade.The old adage is that climbs never get easier, you just get faster so it might be worth bearing that in mind and just get used to the fact that climbing hills is always going to be tough.
If you think about some of the figures you quote, just buying a bike that is a couple of kilos less will make the following difference (roughly) in weight:
Current bike + rider = ~77kg
New bike + rider = ~75kg.
So the difference in weight is less than 5%, factor in water bottles, pump, spare tubes, food, etc., and the percentages tumble even further. If you think that will help you fly up hills then crack on and buy a nice shiny new bike. The other alternative is to work on hills and your fitness. There are lots of training programmes out there (the pros do hill reps with some interval sessions as well) but the simplest way is just to ride hills, you will get better but it won't come overnight.
Yes, I have accepted that climbs are always going to be hard no matter if I get a carbon bike or not and that fitness and training come first, but on my current bike I feel that it requires too much effort (for me) to do even small climbs. It just doesn't roll, despite having a compact setup (12-30T , 50/34 :roll:).
I am on the early stages on road cycling but I feel that an upgrade that would give me an extra bit on the things I mentioned would be a good choice. I am not aiming for races or anything, but I would like to enjoy the rides a bit more than now (mostly the climbs) and ease up the effort needed a bit.0 -
OP, I kinda sense that you are set on buying a new bike come what may...but I will at least try and talk a bit of sense.
You are looking for something to smooth out your local roads and yet also state that running 120 PSI on 23s doesn't make the rides harsh. I don't get that contradiction but if you want to smooth out roads then, since we are pretty much similar weights (I am ~66kg), I think your first step should be to drop about 30 PSI in tyre pressure. If you want the ride to be smoother still then ride 25s and drop a little more pressure (I have found 70F/80R works ok).
Now, I honestly don't get your comments about the bike not rolling well. If you mean that whenever you hit a climb you seem to lose momentum then learn to get the gearing right, don't overcook it at the bottom , wait for the hill to come to you, keep a bit in reserve and then power the final few yards to give yourself a little fillip after the climb and set the pace off again. At your weight, a 34/30 should get you up pretty much anything so if you are struggling then you need to work on your climbing technique and fitness. Buying a new carbon frame bike is NOT going to make your climbing noticeably different until you either sort out your technique or change your unrealistic expectations.
Anyway, failing all that, just pick a red bike and buy it.0 -
Buying an aluminium frame over a carbon one, thinking it will be more durable and less likely to crack is a general misconception.
Very true- a durable alloy frame will be far more durable than a carbon frame, but the super light weight alloy bikes- maybe not so much.
Aluminium also suffers from fatigue, so after a lot of hard use those thin walls could start to crack- although it could take a while. The lighter they get I do wonder how strong they will be in a crash- there is that 'famous' video where a carbon frame is it with a hammer repeatedly before failure, whereas the alloy frame was ruined in the first hit.
The big advantage of Alloy though is you know instantly if it's knackered, whereas with carbon what looks like no real concern on the surface could be very serious.
If I were going for light weight (~1000g frame) & durability, I would probably go for a decent carbon frame that isn't super duper light.
If I were going for total durability & not too fussed about absaloute low weight then I would go for one of the heavier alloy frames (Caad8, Kinesis 4s etc), titanium or good 'ole Steel.0 -
Sounds to me as though you really want a carbon bike, I have the CF SL 9.0 and can vouch for it's compliant ride.
This has the same frame, but with cheaper components and yet still weighs in at only 7.6 kilos...
https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/road/ultimate/2016/ultimate-cf-sl-7-0.html
Although it's slightly over budget, you'll be as happy as Larry, especially if you put the Quattro's on and as Bob mentioned, bigger tyres with lower psi.0 -
If you think about some of the figures you quote, just buying a bike that is a couple of kilos less will make the following difference (roughly) in weight:
Current bike + rider = ~77kg
New bike + rider = ~75kg.
So the difference in weight is less than 5%, factor in water bottles, pump, spare tubes, food, etc., and the percentages tumble even further. If you think that will help you fly up hills then crack on and buy a nice shiny new bike. The other alternative is to work on hills and your fitness. There are lots of training programmes out there (the pros do hill reps with some interval sessions as well) but the simplest way is just to ride hills, you will get better but it won't come overnight.
How about you do both? Or add in the old 'lose some body weight' and do all three.
2kg off the bike is not the same as 2kg off the rider IME.
I certainly prefer riding lighter/better specced bikes.
Completely agree not to expect miracles though........... but I would definitely ditch the Racing Quattro's too
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What's wrong with the Quattro's, their weight?0
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What's wrong with the Quattro's, their weight?
Weight and Bearings0 -
Judging by how companies treat customers when carbon frames break, I will probably buy a frameset from a local store that can deal with the company directly and use it with my current setup.
Not sure which manufacturer I will go with since I can't find many shops selling framesets, but the biggest shop on my country has the Trek Emonda ALR (ali) and Trek Emonda S (carbon) available. Would anyone recommend those or some other frame of similar budget and will I be able to use them with my current stem/handlebars/seatpost? (here's the components for the Scott:
Handlebars:
Syncros RR2.0 Anatomic 31.8 mm
Stem:
JD ST57 Alloy 1-1/8" / four Bolt 31.8 mm
Seatpost:
Syncros R1.4 Carbon/AL 31.60 -
What's wrong with the Quattro's, their weight?
Weight and Bearings
Interested about this as I was looking at a pair of the CX versions as training wheels, a couple of chaps from my club have them as training wheels and rate them, but I am also keen to hear both sides of the story.
With regards to the OP post, I don't think it makes too much difference if you buy from an LBS or online, apart from if something goes wrong then its easier dealing face to face I suppose, that said buying online is usually a lot cheaper, so unless you get your LBS to price match then you pays more on the off chance your LBS will give you better service if it hits the fanObsessed is a word used by the lazy to describe the dedicated!0 -
Owning both aluminium and carbon bikes, my experience of the difference between them is that the weight differential matters less than having a decent bottom bracket and good wheels including, as discussed above, decent tyres set at the right pressure level.
When I went from aluminium to carbon the difference was fantastic, but I have recognised since upgrading the wheels on my aluminium bike that the difference is not nearly as noticeable.0 -
Owning both aluminium and carbon bikes, my experience of the difference between them is that the weight differential matters less than having a decent bottom bracket and good wheels including, as discussed above, decent tyres set at the right pressure level.
When I went from aluminium to carbon the difference was fantastic, but I have recognised since upgrading the wheels on my aluminium bike that the difference is not nearly as noticeable.
What would be a decent bottom bracket and good wheels? Right now my bike has the
Shimano 105 BB – 5700, and the Quattros as I said. Would it be best to upgrade the wheels to Fulcrum Zero's for example? (I've read reviews that they are only a little faster than 3's) I can consider these options but need more info and why would they be worth it instead of getting a new frameset.0 -
Does it have to be a carbon bike? How about a lightweight ali bike? My race bike is ali and comes in at 6.40 kg. The fast trainer is ali running old Dura Ace and comes in at 7.00.
You could get an ali bike from somewhere like Canyon/Rose/Planet X for your budget that fits your criteria - or do you really want a carbon bike?
It doesn't have to be carbon, but I've read that carbon will also give this smooth/easy rolling ride and is also better on power transfer since it's stiffer. On my current bike I run 700x23 tires and always use 120psi without having issues like harsh ride. In fact I was looking at the Trek Emonda ALR frame which is Aluminum but I am not sure if it's worth giving 900€ when you can buy a similar Carbon frame?
I prefer Aluminum in the sense of it won't crack as easy overtime (if I am not mistaken) but I want the Carbon feel and lightness. Overall the purchase must justify the cost, meaning if the ALR have no difference in comparison to my current setup I wouldn't upgrade.The old adage is that climbs never get easier, you just get faster so it might be worth bearing that in mind and just get used to the fact that climbing hills is always going to be tough.
If you think about some of the figures you quote, just buying a bike that is a couple of kilos less will make the following difference (roughly) in weight:
Current bike + rider = ~77kg
New bike + rider = ~75kg.
So the difference in weight is less than 5%, factor in water bottles, pump, spare tubes, food, etc., and the percentages tumble even further. If you think that will help you fly up hills then crack on and buy a nice shiny new bike. The other alternative is to work on hills and your fitness. There are lots of training programmes out there (the pros do hill reps with some interval sessions as well) but the simplest way is just to ride hills, you will get better but it won't come overnight.
Yes, I have accepted that climbs are always going to be hard no matter if I get a carbon bike or not and that fitness and training come first, but on my current bike I feel that it requires too much effort (for me) to do even small climbs. It just doesn't roll, despite having a compact setup (12-30T , 50/34 :roll:).
I am on the early stages on road cycling but I feel that an upgrade that would give me an extra bit on the things I mentioned would be a good choice. I am not aiming for races or anything, but I would like to enjoy the rides a bit more than now (mostly the climbs) and ease up the effort needed a bit.
You want a nice little CAAD 10 in the sale or CAAD 12 brand new you do.
Light as carbon, stiff as carbon, absolutely blimmin' lovely to ride, chuck it down the road relatedly without worrying about it, probably (I say probably because I have a cold and am therefore on the point of death and too ill to do any research) get a better spec bike for less money than equivalent carbon bike.
if you really want carbon, how about a Hongfu job built up to your taste/budget?Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honoursmithy21 wrote:
He's right you know.0 -
Kinesis Aethein allegedly as good as a caad10.
Obviously I don't want to put you off buying a new bike but try some 25mm tyres and lower pressures as suggested. It can genuinely transform your ride with absolutely no negative effect0 -
Kinesis Aethein allegedly as good as a caad10.
Obviously I don't want to put you off buying a new bike but try some 25mm tyres and lower pressures as suggested. It can genuinely transform your ride with absolutely no negative effect
Ooh - yes: one of them. Very good call that man.
Or a one of these. Lush and meant to be very, very, very good: https://bowman-cycles.com/product/palace/Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honoursmithy21 wrote:
He's right you know.0 -
Not sure where you are getting your weights from, and I don't know Scotts very well, but I'd be amazed if there is 1.4kgs to knock off the frame.
What will make you go faster is feeling like you're faster - it's why I took C50s to the Tourmalet. In reality the differences will be minor.
Saying that, a 2014/2015 SuperSix Evo 5 from Paul's Cycles will rock all your boxes as a complete bike (look at the CAAD10s too, same weight as an Evo when looking at the same budget).
Enjoy choosing! Sounds like a new bike is coming regardless - choose one which looks awesome.0 -
Any idea which components I need to change if I go from my current Scott Speedster 14 to a Trek Emonda ALR frame?
Merry Christmas.0 -
What tyres are you running at 120psi? Sounds a bit overkill0
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What tyres are you running at 120psi? Sounds a bit overkill
The Conti GP 4 Season. Now I switched to 4000S2 25 and they are faster even at less psi (90/100). Will also try those at 120 just to see how they do.0 -
What's wrong with the Quattro's, their weight?
Weight and Bearings
Interested about this as I was looking at a pair of the CX versions as training wheels, a couple of chaps from my club have them as training wheels and rate them, but I am also keen to hear both sides of the story.
I'd be interested to hear what dwanes objects to about the Quattro bearings as well! They could be lighter but I can't see what the problem with the bearings is. They are single sealed so they don't last long enough if used in all weathers but they can be replaced easily and endlessly and cost very little (standard size). And they spin perfectly well. There's nothing about the bearings that I can think of that would slow you down but I'd look at lower profile, lighter wheels with lightweight tyres and tubes as making some difference.Faster than a tent.......0 -
What tyres are you running at 120psi? Sounds a bit overkill
The Conti GP 4 Season. Now I switched to 4000S2 25 and they are faster even at less psi (90/100). Will also try those at 120 just to see how they do.
Are the GP4S 25c too? If you're running yours at 120psi that might explain why the other bike felt like it rolled better - 120psi is very high for those tyres, it would feel really harsh.0 -
What tyres are you running at 120psi? Sounds a bit overkill
The Conti GP 4 Season. Now I switched to 4000S2 25 and they are faster even at less psi (90/100). Will also try those at 120 just to see how they do.
Are the GP4S 25c too? If you're running yours at 120psi that might explain why the other bike felt like it rolled better - 120psi is very high for those tyres, it would feel really harsh.
The 4 Season were 23c. When I tried to run them at 90-100 they were a bit slow and I felt like they didn't roll well. Another reason I was using 120 psi was because I felt they would be losing a bit of air since there are a lot of bumps here and also I didn't want to get any punctures. But anyway even 90-100 doesn't help to make a ride comfortable on these roads so I am kind of used to it.
That's also a reason why a carbon bike would be a good choice for me, but I've turned this option down for now since 1) The price they ask for low end carbon frames is high (for me) 2) I don't know how much it would last without a crack if I went that way. That's why I am now looking for high end aluminum like the CAAD10 (which I can't find here as frame only) or the Trek Emonda ALR.
Leaning towards the Trek since the shop that brings them is the biggest on my country and I've read that people with cracked Trek frames got good customer support from them.0 -
Get a carbon frame any carbon frame and you will not regret it. Run 25c tyres at around 90psi for comfortable and fast ride.0
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Get a carbon frame any carbon frame and you will not regret it. Run 25c tyres at around 90psi for comfortable and fast ride.
Did you read my last post? :P0 -
Get a carbon frame any carbon frame and you will not regret it. Run 25c tyres at around 90psi for comfortable and fast ride.
Did you read my last post? :P
I did and it makes no sense.
Why on earth would you think a carbon frame is likely to crack?
You can get fantastic carbon frames for far less than the Trek frame (in the UK at least)0
