Hunter Allen Balance An Introduction to Left/Right Power Dat
bahzob
Posts: 2,195
As predicted http://www.hunterallenpowerblog.com/2015/11/balance-introduction-to-leftright-power.html?utm_source=December+2015+Power+News&utm_campaign=December+2015+Power+News&utm_medium=email
In time tests like those outlined here will become as normal a part of a structured training plan as carrying out a FTP test.
If you haven't already had the opportunity to use a power meter that can differentiate left from right thus providing data that can help you analyse your pedal stroke so you know how you are actually producing power rather than just a gross total I'd suggest you try one. Atm from my experience Vectors give good info but the best remains the Wattbike due to its polar display.
In time tests like those outlined here will become as normal a part of a structured training plan as carrying out a FTP test.
If you haven't already had the opportunity to use a power meter that can differentiate left from right thus providing data that can help you analyse your pedal stroke so you know how you are actually producing power rather than just a gross total I'd suggest you try one. Atm from my experience Vectors give good info but the best remains the Wattbike due to its polar display.
Martin S. Newbury RC
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Comments
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It's important to recognise the distinction between types of left/right power data produced by power meters.
They are not all the same. Pseudo-power balance meters are not going to provide much useful data in this regard. Once again no matter how much you might wish it, the Wattbike does not and cannot make such distinctions as discussed in the linked article since the power is measured downstream of the bottom bracket.
As to the article, the question I have (for Hunter) is pretty simple. The rider's power output after all that playing with pedalling dropped compared to the rider's natural riding style. So what was the point of the intervention?0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19764302#p19764302]Alex_Simmons/RST[/url] wrote:
As to the article, the question I have (for Hunter) is pretty simple. The rider's power output after all that playing with pedalling dropped compared to the rider's natural riding style. So what was the point of the intervention?
Why did the rider's power output drop, it looks like another case of riders not knowing the difference between 'pulling up' and 'unweighting'.0 -
interesting0
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Merry Christmas!I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles0
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Where have you been Bahzob?
always interesting articles by HA, this one i missed, the way i read it, Allen is saying take a look at this, experiment and look for ways to improve, not that after 4 days of testing there will be an immediate improvement.0 -
I read the article looking for the conclusion on whether this data could actually lead to a permanent improvement in balance and couldn't see it - did I miss it or was it not there?
What I concluded (maybe unfairly) was that it has taken us 3 years to come up with a way of displaying the data in a meaningful manner. Still don't know if it will actually make a difference.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
I have been using the L/R power Balance in order to get a more even cadence after breaking my Femur. before # I was 49/51 now more like 40/60.0
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I read the article looking for the conclusion on whether this data could actually lead to a permanent improvement in balance and couldn't see it - did I miss it or was it not there?
What I concluded (maybe unfairly) was that it has taken us 3 years to come up with a way of displaying the data in a meaningful manner. Still don't know if it will actually make a difference.
I was keen to buy a new PM with L/R readings to resolve perceived imbalance in power. A coach I know suggested my limiter was not the size of my wallet, but one of strength. Do I have similar strength in both legs? Two tests: one legged press. And inhibited glute test. On the leg press it was immediately obvious, my left leg was around 20% weaker when doing single leg presses, and I have inhibited glutes. It's quite common apparently. Plenty of info out there via google.
So now I am swapped some of my time and money to work on improving my strength and conditioning off the bike, rather than buying new pedals.
A recent 30 minute steady Z2 ride has revealed my power is up 15w for the same HR as the same ride this time last year and that is with no on-bike structured training since October. Come the end of April 2016 a 15w improvement in my FTP and I'd be happy. 25w and I'd be cock-a-hoop.
Just my two penny worth.Live to ski
Ski to live0 -
I had a lower leg amputation and still ended up with a threshold power equivalent to pre amputation level. Massive strength difference between legs post amputation. Strength isn't a limiter for sustainable aerobic power. The limiters are metabolic.0
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I read the article looking for the conclusion on whether this data could actually lead to a permanent improvement in balance and couldn't see it - did I miss it or was it not there?
What I concluded (maybe unfairly) was that it has taken us 3 years to come up with a way of displaying the data in a meaningful manner. Still don't know if it will actually make a difference.
I was keen to buy a new PM with L/R readings to resolve perceived imbalance in power. A coach I know suggested my limiter was not the size of my wallet, but one of strength. Do I have similar strength in both legs? Two tests: one legged press. And inhibited glute test. On the leg press it was immediately obvious, my left leg was around 20% weaker when doing single leg presses, and I have inhibited glutes. It's quite common apparently. Plenty of info out there via google.
So now I am swapped some of my time and money to work on improving my strength and conditioning off the bike, rather than buying new pedals.
A recent 30 minute steady Z2 ride has revealed my power is up 15w for the same HR as the same ride this time last year and that is with no on-bike structured training since October. Come the end of April 2016 a 15w improvement in my FTP and I'd be happy. 25w and I'd be cock-a-hoop.
Just my two penny worth.
How does your L/R leg power compare now.0 -
A recent 30 minute steady Z2 ride has revealed my power is up 15w for the same HR as the same ride this time last year and that is with no on-bike structured training since October. Come the end of April 2016 a 15w improvement in my FTP and I'd be happy. 25w and I'd be cock-a-hoop.
Just my two penny worth.
I could be wrong, but I don't personally see a 15w improvement as anything particularly remarkable - could even be just down to a fluctuation. Just think how much it might have improved if you had stayed off the weights and done some proper aerobic/endurance work...0 -
And there's the problem - none of the anecdotal "I improved by x whatevers" ever have a control for comparison to show whether the sample of 1 has anything useful to report other than "I did some exercise and got fitter". Well, geez, who'd've thunk it?I could be wrong, but I don't personally see a 15w improvement as anything particularly remarkable - could even be just down to a fluctuation. Just think how much it might have improved if you had stayed off the weights and done some proper aerobic/endurance work...
Trying to summon the spirit of P_Tucker here... the Ghost of Christmas Past...0 -
A recent 30 minute steady Z2 ride has revealed my power is up 15w for the same HR as the same ride this time last year and that is with no on-bike structured training since October. Come the end of April 2016 a 15w improvement in my FTP and I'd be happy. 25w and I'd be cock-a-hoop.
Just my two penny worth.
I could be wrong, but I don't personally see a 15w improvement as anything particularly remarkable - could even be just down to a fluctuation. Just think how much it might have improved if you had stayed off the weights and done some proper aerobic/endurance work...
Yes, you are wrong.Live to ski
Ski to live0 -
A recent 30 minute steady Z2 ride has revealed my power is up 15w for the same HR as the same ride this time last year and that is with no on-bike structured training since October. Come the end of April 2016 a 15w improvement in my FTP and I'd be happy. 25w and I'd be cock-a-hoop.
Just my two penny worth.
I could be wrong, but I don't personally see a 15w improvement as anything particularly remarkable - could even be just down to a fluctuation. Just think how much it might have improved if you had stayed off the weights and done some proper aerobic/endurance work...
Yes, you are wrong.
Not sure I am, tbh. 15w to a pro trying to extract every bit of performance would be major. 15w at 'everyday MAMIL' level could easily be gained or lost depending on what you had for breakfast - especially as your previous ride data is 12 months old.
Anyway, are your legs now perfectly in balance?0 -
A recent 30 minute steady Z2 ride has revealed my power is up 15w for the same HR as the same ride this time last year and that is with no on-bike structured training since October. Come the end of April 2016 a 15w improvement in my FTP and I'd be happy. 25w and I'd be cock-a-hoop.
Just my two penny worth.
I could be wrong, but I don't personally see a 15w improvement as anything particularly remarkable - could even be just down to a fluctuation. Just think how much it might have improved if you had stayed off the weights and done some proper aerobic/endurance work...
Yes, you are wrong.
Not sure I am, tbh. 15w to a pro trying to extract every bit of performance would be major. 15w at 'everyday MAMIL' level could easily be gained or lost depending on what you had for breakfast - especially as your previous ride data is 12 months old.
Anyway, are your legs now perfectly in balance?
I'm more of an OAMIL than MAMIL. But it does not stop me winning medals at national level. Unfortunately, the medals are not the correct colour. Now, if only there was some simple way (that's legal) for me to change that?Live to ski
Ski to live0 -
I'm more of an OAMIL than MAMIL. But it does not stop me winning medals at national level. Unfortunately, the medals are not the correct colour. Now, if only there was some simple way (that's legal) for me to change that?
Thanks for telling us about the medals. What I think people are actually asking though, is how you are attributing a 15w increase on a year-old figure to gym work in order to address a L/R imbalance. And is the imbalance now sorted?0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19767806#p19767806]Alex_Simmons/RST[/url] wrote:I had a lower leg amputation and still ended up with a threshold power equivalent to pre amputation level. Massive strength difference between legs post amputation.
<Drops mic, walks off-stage>0 -
It's one personal anecdote that actually is worth considering as evidence.[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19767806#p19767806]Alex_Simmons/RST[/url] wrote:I had a lower leg amputation and still ended up with a threshold power equivalent to pre amputation level. Massive strength difference between legs post amputation.
<Drops mic, walks off-stage>0 -
So losing a leg is a bit extreme for all but the most keen of cyclists but at what point would a L/R leg strength (for want of a better word) imbalance be worth spending time in gym etc trying to correct ? assuming no pain or injury.0
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Prediction: you'll get two answers.So losing a leg is a bit extreme for all but the most keen of cyclists but at what point would a L/R leg strength (for want of a better word) imbalance be worth spending time in gym etc trying to correct ? assuming no pain or injury.0 -
worth login on to type that.0
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Given I had on bike power meter data for training and racing from both before and after amputation it's, AFAIK, a unique perspective. My data was submitted to a researcher to prepare a paper on the topic but that never eventuated.
It's one personal anecdote that actually is worth considering as evidence.[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19767806#p19767806]Alex_Simmons/RST[/url] wrote:I had a lower leg amputation and still ended up with a threshold power equivalent to pre amputation level. Massive strength difference between legs post amputation.
<Drops mic, walks off-stage>
Not only was my sustainable aerobic power equivalent, so pretty much were my anaerobic capabilities. It was neuromuscular power that suffered (~15% loss of peak sprint and standing start power), which makes sense given the significant loss of muscular-skeletal infrastructure.
Another n=1 example was the Jim Martin study that took a single leg paralympic cyclist and tested them with and without an inertial load added to the non-drive crank arm. The results of that little experiment were quite illuminating as well when it comes to pedal technique.0 -
Three probably.
Prediction: you'll get two answers.So losing a leg is a bit extreme for all but the most keen of cyclists but at what point would a L/R leg strength (for want of a better word) imbalance be worth spending time in gym etc trying to correct ? assuming no pain or injury.
I don't think one can apply a rule of thumb to answer the question. It's clearly an individual case by case thing as to what training or remedial action or activity an individual may need or will make a difference. There could be a number of things to be done. Or none.0 -
So losing a leg is a bit extreme for all but the most keen of cyclists but at what point would a L/R leg strength (for want of a better word) imbalance be worth spending time in gym etc trying to correct ? assuming no pain or injury.
I will defer to anyone with specialist knowledge, but my take on it is that if you have some kind of diagnosed impairment in one leg, for which weights or strength work has been prescribed, then obviously that is difficult to argue with.
The problem I have is with the assumption that any L/R imbalance must be the result of some kind of strength 'deficit' in one leg and therefore 'building up' that leg must be the answer. The other problem I have is with the notion that L/R power 'must' be balanced - when in reality I don't think anyone's actually is.0
