Which turbo trainer for Zwift

2oldnslow

Hi and please bear with me if this turns out to be a rather long winded rambling question in which case I'll apologise in advance.

Anyway, I'm a 60 year old long term cyclist, who having taken early retirement and moved to Cyprus a couple of years back has now moved back to the UK with all that entails weather wise.

To add to that I've been off my bike for about 6 weeks with a knee problem, now happily resolved. That being said the weather of late here in the North West of England isn't exactly tempting me back out on my bike. This time of the year in Cyprus I'd be happily doing all day rides in pretty hilly terrain.

So (at long last) the question. I'm trying to decide between two trainers

At the moment this is my preferred option as I think the direct drive will give a more "roadlike feel" and I'm happy to dedicate a bike to it leaving it set up as a permanent trainer.

http://www.elite-it.com/en/products/trainers/indoor-trainers/turbo-muin-smart-b-plus

A little cheaper is this which has the benefit of having the resistance "remotely" controllable from an app like Zwift

http://www.elite-it.com/en/products/trainers/indoor-trainers/qubo-digital-smart-b-plus

My gut feeling is to go for the muin but as my "training needs" are more about getting the (indoor) miles in within the Zwift enviroment rather than a massively structured training plan would I get a "better experience" with the Qubo smart ?

I've read a lot of opinions which suggest that having resistance controlled from within Zwift isn't the be all and end all so any opinions ?

Noise isn't an issue as I've the benefit of a basement to "train in" Ideally I'm aiming to get to spring with my fitness at a good level with a view to having a bash at the majority of the Cycling Weekly Adventure X series plus some long distance continental "sportives" and am happy (boredom not withstanding) to spend a couple of hours each day on the trainer, hence my interest in Zwift.

Any and all advice gratefully received.

Elfed

If you've got the money, get the Wahoo Kickr, seems the default option for Zwift and TrainerRoad.
Setting the trainer to control the resistance through Zwift/TrainerRoad is pretty cool and going back to a dumb trainer would feel like a big step backwards for myself.

I'd advice against anything Tacx as their online customer support is pretty awful.

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2015/11/2015-2016trainer-recommendations.html#

2oldnslow

Hi Elfred and thanks for that. Apparently I'm not allowed to spend Wahoo Kickr money but you're right that would be very much up there on my list if I was.

I had many years ago a Tacx Fortious trainer and can't say i was impressed wither with it or as you say the customer service from Tacx although their cheaper "smart trainers" go seem interesting

I hadn't seen that DCRainmaker blog when I looked on his site earlier so that would appear to move the decision toward the Qubo hmmm food for thought.

Elfed

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19760652#p19760652]2oldnslow[/url] wrote:

Hi Elfred and thanks for that. Apparently I'm not allowed to spend Wahoo Kickr money but you're right that would be very much up there on my list if I was.

I had many years ago a Tacx Fortious trainer and can't say i was impressed wither with it or as you say the customer service from Tacx although their cheaper "smart trainers" go seem interesting

I hadn't seen that DCRainmaker blog when I looked on his site earlier so that would appear to move the decision toward the Qubo hmmm food for thought.

My Tacx Vortex Smart lasted three weeks till it packed in, so although it's on the DC Rainmaker site as his recommendation, it isn't on mine. I've ordered a Kickr Snap instead.

Not sure if the Quobo has the feature where Zwift/TrainerRoad controls the resistance, I think they're the one's with Real in their title. It's a bit confusing with Elite as I was looking at their direct drive unit myself, but it's the £850 one that only seems to have this feature, there's also the RealTour.

solstice21

About a month in on my Vortex Smart and it's been great. Doesn't generate the high resistance levels of Bkool Pro, Kickr, Bushido but it definitely makes turbo more fun. Erg mode has been brilliant for structured workout,s and cruising around on Zwift is just fun! ....For me anyway

2oldnslow

Qubo Smart B+ apparently is controllable from (say Zwift) although confusingly on the Zwift website the Muin Turbo Smart B+ (not the real version) falls under the Smart trainers tab whilst the Qubo Digital Smart B+ isn't. Both are however new models.

I suppose my question really is, is there any significant advantage in having an app control resistance ?

2oldnslow

Me bad just noticed the Qubo Digital Smart B+ is now on the Smart trainer list on the Zwift website hmmmmm

Elfed

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19760769#p19760769]2oldnslow[/url] wrote:

Me bad just noticed the Qubo Digital Smart B+ is now on the Smart trainer list on the Zwift website hmmmmm

Pretty sure that Zwift can't control the trainer's resistance, it can only read data being sent from the trainer, like speed, power and cadence. However, I believe the capability is there once Elite open up the channels to enable that through future firmware updates.

2oldnslow

"Pretty sure that Zwift can't control the trainer's resistance, it can only read data being sent from the trainer, like speed, power and cadence. However, I believe the capability is there once Elite open up the channels to enable that through future firmware updates"

Having done a bit more reading that's also my understanding so having tried a Smart Turbo Muin B+ (and having enjoyed the almost road like feel) I'm going to go with that.

Many thanks for your input

2oldnslow

As a slight aside during my "researches" I found this which I think really well encapsulates the whole not having a smart trainer on Zwift et al nicely

You have to make the adjustment in your riding. The dumb trainer doesn't do it for you. So - Think of it this way - You are pedaling your bike on the trainer on the flats in zwift and you real MPH (bike computer) is 17 and your virtual mph (zwift) is 20. When you go up a zwift hill if you don't adjust your effort (17mph on trainer) your virtual MPH will drop to say 8 mph. But if you increase your real MPH/effort to say 20 mph then you will go up the virtual hill faster maybe a virtual 12mph climb. Your speed on the trainer and Island don't match but your effort in the real world impact your virtual speed.

Trainer road is similar. To ride at 150 watts it may be 15 mph on your trainer. When the target goes up to 250 watts you have to up your speed/power to match. This could be just raising cadence or shifting gears to increase speed/effort.

In both situations (Zwift or TR) you control the effort manually. Trainer road or zwift cannot force you to increase the effort. With a kickr/computrainer type trainer you have no choice. They will force a change in your effort to stay pedaling.

I use a power meter on a dumb trainer and this become pretty intuitive once you start riding. My body is so adjusted to the Zwift island topography that I instinctively shift, increase power, and lower my cadence on the climb. Nothing physically changed in my bike, PM, or trainer. I just naturally simulate the climb with my adjusted effort.

So something has to be "SMART" in the mix. Either you have to use your actions to control the resistence to match conditions (dumb trainer) or you can use a Smart trainer and then you can just ride and shift/adapt to what the trainer does.

the_jackalcp

It might be worth having a look at this link. Zwift clearly think the qubo digital smart b+ is smart enough while the muin smart b+ isn't. You need a trainer that is ant+ fe-c enabled which the qubo is. The "smart b+" muin refers to the misuro speed sensor thing and not the open Ant+ protocol. Elite don't make it very simple as there isn't always logic in their product names.

https://support.zwift.com/hc/en-us/articles/203152565-Which-trainers-does-Zwift-support-

2oldnslow

Thanks for that Jackalcp and no Elite don't make it at all easy. Very tempted by the Qubo Digital Smart B+ with it's (as you say) Ant+ FE-C but sort of leaning towards the Muin Smart B+ (which as you point out isn't actually "that Smart" and can't be controlled remotely) for it's direct drive feature.

markhewitt1978

If you're buying a new trainer mostly for use on Zwift then 100% you *need* one which can control the resistance for you. It underlines the entire point of the game, and it's even more important for workout mode where it controls the power for you too.

The Qubo looks reasonable, I'm not sure how the this one and the likes of the BKool work where they rely on the riders weight to press the wheel down onto the roller - as opposed to Tacx which has a spring loaded mechanism to press the brake onto the tyre. I've heard it works ok but can cause issues riding out of the saddle as the back wheel can become unweighted.