junior Doper
Comments
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[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19759690#p19759690]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:He told CW that losing the national 25 title was when he decided to get on the juice“That was a catalyst,” he said. “I got beaten by a lot, and when you get beaten by a lot you start questioning things. You question other people. I’m not trying to justify it, but when there is that much media exposure, about EPO, it is easy to be tempted. A big factor was losing that title.”
Who the heck is mentoring this kid and putting that kind of 1)pressure and 2)Crazy expectations of himself on him?
When I get beat by a lot, even when I was racing abroad, and getting beaten by a lot, my immediate reaction was "He must be a lot better at cycling than me" or "I wonder if doing XYZ would help?"
Is this how juniors think now?
I agree DG but I'm finding it very difficult to believe this young man's story. He didn't withdraw from the ToW but was kicked off the team and re-joined London dynamo without telling them he was under investigation so he could ride the Nat champs. That's very calculated.
I do believe him when he mentions losing the 25mTT as being a big factor. I think he might be a "win at all costs" type of personality (where have we seen that before?). His losing might still be a podium but that's not good enough and might mean you are not one of the next Yates'/swift/Kennaugh's etc.
I'm more like you, when I get beat it's because there are better than me and there are roughly 50 better than me's in a 10mTT throughout the season over here. I just clip the top off my recovery drink of choice (Leffe this year) and talk a better ride than I rode.0 -
...and the EPO abusersGabriel Evans wrote:It was a lumpy course which separated the men from the boys.
http://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/event/1012
Is it not routine to dope-test the entire podium for a title race like this? How do we know he whom has inherited the title is any cleaner?
Are they taking the one bad apple defence?0 -
I'm trying to see both sides of the story here, but it's getting harder."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
There was an anabolic steroid positive also - http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/british-masters-champion-andy-hastings-given-four-year-doping-ban-2033790
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Has anyone ever said whilst still competing "Hey no-one knows this but I've been cheating and even though I've got years ahead of me the burden of guilt is making it too much for me to carry" Has anyone ever done that? not to my knowledge.
Jerome Chiotti, former MTB world champion, until he admitted to doping. I think the admission was out of the blue.
http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/2000/apr00/apr23news.shtml0 -
Has anyone ever said whilst still competing "Hey no-one knows this but I've been cheating and even though I've got years ahead of me the burden of guilt is making it too much for me to carry" Has anyone ever done that? not to my knowledge.
Jerome Chiotti, former MTB world champion, until he admitted to doping. I think the admission was out of the blue.
http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/2000/apr00/apr23news.shtml
Nice one Shiny. He must top the most repentant doper poll having coughed the job out of the blue. Chapeau to him0 -
I'm surprised there has been no comment from his parents.0
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A) I suspect the didnt know and
damn right! It's his mistake, he needs to take the hit for it.
Unless we have a situation like Jeansson (see ICYMI thread) where his parents have been pressurizing him to win, then they don't really have much to do with it.We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
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He's 18, as if his parents are going to know about it.
I was doing far more dangerous (and fun) drugs than EPO when I was 18 and my parents didn't have a clue.0 -
Dynamo?
Bahahhahahahahaha.
Prejudice vindicated.
Saw that and thought of you We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Ha. I'm not on here that often, but I've seen you post about Dynamo before and was waiting to see thisDynamo?
Bahahhahahahahaha.
Prejudice vindicated.
FWIW, I've never seen a Dynamo rider act like a pr1ck when I've been riding with/around them, but my mate does Richmond Park a lot more regularly than I do and he moans about them nonstop. Girlfriend also did support for me on Chase The Sun this year and, parked up in Richmond Park she remarked on what rude (insert anatomy part here)s they were as they barrelled round it
They've kicked him out, haven't they?Fat chopper. Some racing. Some testing. Some crashing.
Specialising in Git Daaahns and Cafs. Norvern Munkey/Transplanted Laaandoner.0 -
Dynamo?
Bahahhahahahahaha.
Prejudice vindicated.
Dodgy dealings over the chicken slices in the Roehampton Gate caff0 -
He was immediately booted out of his club and joined dynamo without them knowing so could do the nationals.
it all seems pretty calculated to me and the article on TTForum sounds like a load of bollox. I would tend to think he knew exactly what he was doing and really couldn't give 2 sh!ts about his other competitors and is only sorry he got caught.0 -
Certainly junior racing has changed hugely in the last 10 years.
A very competitive level, with full fields and lots of teams with substantial funds.
.
Sounds like Italy 20 years ago then...
Not a good advert for the London Dynamo, that photo, innit... left the forum March 20230 -
Ha. I'm not on here that often, but I've seen you post about Dynamo before and was waiting to see thisDynamo?
Bahahhahahahahaha.
Prejudice vindicated.
FWIW, I've never seen a Dynamo rider act like a pr1ck when I've been riding with/around them, but my mate does Richmond Park a lot more regularly than I do and he moans about them nonstop. Girlfriend also did support for me on Chase The Sun this year and, parked up in Richmond Park she remarked on what rude (insert anatomy part here)s they were as they barrelled round it
They've kicked him out, haven't they?
If i can be serious for a moment; it's probably luck of the draw, and they got unlucky. I know nothing about the story - I just have some low level, probably unjustified, beef with them.
Now with that caveat in place.
Bahahahahahahaha.0 -
He was immediately booted out of his club and joined dynamo without them knowing so could do the nationals.
it all seems pretty calculated to me and the article on TTForum sounds like a load of bollox. I would tend to think he knew exactly what he was doing and really couldn't give 2 sh!ts about his other competitors and is only sorry he got caught.
What article? You mean his apology?English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0 -
I sort of promised I wouldnt wade in here. So here are my reasonably unfocused thoughts on it.
The background to it all.
I race bikes, and I train a lot. In fact I think I train probably more (and with decent quality) than most people, but I discovered bikes late, and it took me a year of getting spat out of the back of 4th catagory to find my feet or any form. I'm a 3rd cat now, and to be honest I can't see me go any higher. It feels 'unfair' to work flipping hard and to get beaten. but I turn the unfairness round inside itself and use it to motivate me to train hard, eat well, and to be a better racer. for the most part it works - I progress and most importantly I bloody love it, but there have been times when I have considered leaving the bike behind and driving home.
We have to recognise that we compete in a sport where the margins are so small, and the gains so real, that I can really understand the temptation to dope. The part that really interests me when I'm looking at this is if I ask myself the question "What would I do if I was a neo-pro in 1990" or even "what would I do if I was a junior now", and to be honest I don't have an answer that I am 100% satisfied with. Ask me and I'll say I wouldn't have doped - and I really mean it - but if told me 5 years ago if it would feel weird when my legs are hairy, i would not have beleived you. I just can't judge because I wasn't there - and I have the utmost respect for those that were and said no, and have (some) genuine sympathy for those that said yes.
What I am saying is this; Cylcing is an odd sport. To like it you have to be obsessive by personality, and most of our idols (save froome and co, who I genuinely beleive are clean) took PEDs. Maybe all of them. We should not be surprised that the path to going faster that includes hours of interval sessions, an obsession with food, drink, and weight, beetroot juice, altitude training, and sleeping in oxygen tents also includes EPO. Frankly, its a small leap, and thats why they do it. And the fact that he's 18 is a factor, I made some dereadful decisions when I was 18, and I'm glad I got away with it because they aren't me now. What we also have to recognise is that Cycling isn't alone with the problem - to some its just normal. look at the number of young rugby players on the banned list. For those not naturally blessed with a certain physic to excel at the sport they love, they often think they only have one route. And if that route is paved by others before you, it's a damn sight easier to follow.
So what's my point? My point is that the fact that this kid doped is as much our problem as it is his. We are part of the sport. We are part of the culture. We are part of the solution (and, I have great hope in our future given the circumstances of how he was found out). Furthermore, I don't want our sport to be one that breeds dopers, eating disorders, or any other "win at all cost" racing. I don't want to see a future which has people divebombing corners "because I want to win" or putting the yellow jersey to the sword when he stops for a pee. I just want people to love it, race hard and fair, and look after each other. Which, for the most part, is what it's all about. I've been sworn at and given a shoved in the ribs, but I get it and generally any malice is gone by the time you've put the bike in the car. Thats the sport I love.
So what is my end point? If you dope then thats more your problem than mine. You may have finished ahead of me, but I've beaten you. And I will continue to. and you know what? If you are 40 and dope, then you deserve a lifetime ban. If you divebomb at races we'll continue to tell you not to do it. If you race like a dick, you'll get a hand on your back to say calm down. Remeber, it's bike racing, and the way you win is important.
Lastly, I'm not comfortable saying that an 18 year old should be banned for life. He needs my help more than he needs my judgement, and for what it's worth he's got it.
Yours, the father of a 9 year old racing cyclist, who may never be fast but will always wear nice socks - because at the end of the day "blimey, she knows how to race" is more important than "blimey, have you seen her numbers"Insert bike here:0 -
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TBH, if you're doping as an amateur, you're taking things waaaay too seriously.
Tell that to tri AGers...
English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0 -
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TBH, if you're doping as an amateur, you're taking things waaaay too seriously.
This"In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
I sort of promised I wouldnt wade in here. So here are my reasonably unfocused thoughts on it.
The background to it all.
I race bikes, and I train a lot. In fact I think I train probably more (and with decent quality) than most people, but I discovered bikes late, and it took me a year of getting spat out of the back of 4th catagory to find my feet or any form. I'm a 3rd cat now, and to be honest I can't see me go any higher. It feels 'unfair' to work flipping hard and to get beaten. but I turn the unfairness round inside itself and use it to motivate me to train hard, eat well, and to be a better racer. for the most part it works - I progress and most importantly I bloody love it, but there have been times when I have considered leaving the bike behind and driving home.
We have to recognise that we compete in a sport where the margins are so small, and the gains so real, that I can really understand the temptation to dope. The part that really interests me when I'm looking at this is if I ask myself the question "What would I do if I was a neo-pro in 1990" or even "what would I do if I was a junior now", and to be honest I don't have an answer that I am 100% satisfied with. Ask me and I'll say I wouldn't have doped - and I really mean it - but if told me 5 years ago if it would feel weird when my legs are hairy, i would not have beleived you. I just can't judge because I wasn't there - and I have the utmost respect for those that were and said no, and have (some) genuine sympathy for those that said yes.
What I am saying is this; Cylcing is an odd sport. To like it you have to be obsessive by personality, and most of our idols (save froome and co, who I genuinely beleive are clean) took PEDs. Maybe all of them. We should not be surprised that the path to going faster that includes hours of interval sessions, an obsession with food, drink, and weight, beetroot juice, altitude training, and sleeping in oxygen tents also includes EPO. Frankly, its a small leap, and thats why they do it. And the fact that he's 18 is a factor, I made some dereadful decisions when I was 18, and I'm glad I got away with it because they aren't me now. What we also have to recognise is that Cycling isn't alone with the problem - to some its just normal. look at the number of young rugby players on the banned list. For those not naturally blessed with a certain physic to excel at the sport they love, they often think they only have one route. And if that route is paved by others before you, it's a damn sight easier to follow.
So what's my point? My point is that the fact that this kid doped is as much our problem as it is his. We are part of the sport. We are part of the culture. We are part of the solution (and, I have great hope in our future given the circumstances of how he was found out). Furthermore, I don't want our sport to be one that breeds dopers, eating disorders, or any other "win at all cost" racing. I don't want to see a future which has people divebombing corners "because I want to win" or putting the yellow jersey to the sword when he stops for a pee. I just want people to love it, race hard and fair, and look after each other. Which, for the most part, is what it's all about. I've been sworn at and given a shoved in the ribs, but I get it and generally any malice is gone by the time you've put the bike in the car. Thats the sport I love.
So what is my end point? If you dope then thats more your problem than mine. You may have finished ahead of me, but I've beaten you. And I will continue to. and you know what? If you are 40 and dope, then you deserve a lifetime ban. If you divebomb at races we'll continue to tell you not to do it. If you race like a dick, you'll get a hand on your back to say calm down. Remeber, it's bike racing, and the way you win is important.
Lastly, I'm not comfortable saying that an 18 year old should be banned for life. He needs my help more than he needs my judgement, and for what it's worth he's got it.
Yours, the father of a 9 year old racing cyclist, who may never be fast but will always wear nice socks - because at the end of the day "blimey, she knows how to race" is more important than "blimey, have you seen her numbers"
I love this post. That's what amateur sport is all about.
There's a lovely story in Wiggins new book where the guy his 5 minute man in the 10 he did in Hull holds him off by 10s and does a massive roar at the end. Wiggins loved it."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
So "Mars Bars" and Bananas are out these days.
No wonder they are so much faster than we were,
It's not just better roads and equipment then ??Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 19720 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19759690#p19759690]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:He told CW that losing the national 25 title was when he decided to get on the juice“That was a catalyst,” he said. “I got beaten by a lot, and when you get beaten by a lot you start questioning things. You question other people. I’m not trying to justify it, but when there is that much media exposure, about EPO, it is easy to be tempted. A big factor was losing that title.”
Who the heck is mentoring this kid and putting that kind of 1)pressure and 2)Crazy expectations of himself on him?
In the TTF thread it's mentioned he was coached by Trainsharp, one half of whom is Motoman's mate Blind Pew.
They also noted that the mention of the Panorama programme being an influence in his CW interview may have come after somebody suggested it in the thread (which he was logged on and reading at the time).0 -
I'm confused because now can taking EPO once make you win a national race, who uses a syringe for vitamins especially after being told it was used.
Is this planet fucking earth?Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.0 -
He was immediately booted out of his club and joined dynamo without them knowing so could do the nationals.
it all seems pretty calculated to me and the article on TTForum sounds like a load of bollox. I would tend to think he knew exactly what he was doing and really couldn't give 2 sh!ts about his other competitors and is only sorry he got caught.
What article? You mean his apology?
Yeah that. Was reading the replies yesterday. Some very considered responses especially from his competitors and the chap who came second in nationals.
The more I learn the less I believe it was a one off out of curiosity0 -
We should not be surprised that the path to going faster that includes hours of interval sessions, an obsession with food, drink, and weight, beetroot juice, altitude training, and sleeping in oxygen tents also includes EPO.
........................ point is that the fact that this kid doped is as much our problem as it is his. We are part of the sport. We are part of the culture. We are part of the solution (and, I have great hope in our future given the circumstances of how he was found out). Furthermore, I don't want our sport to be one that breeds dopers, eating disorders, or any other "win at all cost" racing. I don't want to see a future which has people divebombing corners "because I want to win" or putting the yellow jersey to the sword when he stops for a pee. I just want people to love it, race hard and fair, and look after each other. Which, for the most part, is what it's all about. I've been sworn at and given a shoved in the ribs, but I get it and generally any malice is gone by the time you've put the bike in the car. Thats the sport I love.
I think you're saying compete in our sport, but not at ANY cost.
But we have rules, and we have sportsmanship.
More than that I like to think there is honour and respect, for each other and for the history.
Taking EPO is NOT the next step from drinking beetroot juice.
Gabriel Evans was a long way off becoming pro. The Junior TT title is not highly regarded.
He came 18th in the national road race in july 2015. No decent national or intl results.
So.
1. How deep does his corruption really go? Who else was involved?
2. Which other juniors are doping?0 -
Disclaimer: I don't race, I'm in my 50s and I only came to cycling three years ago.
However, when I was younger I was a competitive SOB so I completely get the desire to win. However, even when I was 18 I had integrity, and I wasn't a cheater.
But I can understand the ones that took the wrong road when doping was the norm. Having followed the Lance Armstrong story, I can understand the pressure on new pros in the 90s discovering that it was dope or retire, and having read Tyler Hamilton's autobio, for instance, the descent into the abyss is something that makes me genuinely question whether, in the same situation, I would have had Christophe Bassons' courage.
Today, however, the situation is very different. Anyone who is competing hard enough to take EPO, or be encouraged to take it, cannot possibly be ignorant of the last 20 years of cycling history, so the decision to cheat is far less forgivable.
There's simply no excuse any more.Is the gorilla tired yet?0 -
Cocky prat is still claiming to be proud of his 2014 TT Win on his Strava profile.
He's deceived too many to get off lightly.
Deserves a 4 year ban, must tell UKAD who helped him, and have all his previous wins stripped.
Don't think too many will welcome him back.0
