Sky's marginal gains
Comments
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Don't forget the round wheels0
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[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19757786#p19757786]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19757736#p19757736]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:At risk of blowing my cover, we call what rich described Kaizen. It's just continuous improvement. Always ask why you're doing what you're doing.
At the risk of also blowing my cover "it's our way of life". DBS for me, are you in cars?
No flies on you
The flies are on the plate. Just goes to show what some people are like really.0 -
Forget other GC contenders as a blanket, I'd just be asking constant questions of convicted dopers like Valverde and Contador and wondering very loudly why Quintana trains where no UCI testers come near. And maybe ask rudely why Nibali rides for a shameless doper on a team tainted by positives.0
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Forget other GC contenders as a blanket, I'd just be asking constant questions of convicted dopers like Valverde and Contador and wondering very loudly why Quintana trains where no UCI testers come near. And maybe ask rudely why Nibali rides for a shameless doper on a team tainted by positives.
Aaaaaad straight in with the no-nonsense approach is argyllflyer....
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I'll answer the Quintana one for you. Because that's where he's from. His family live there.Forget other GC contenders as a blanket, I'd just be asking constant questions of convicted dopers like Valverde and Contador and wondering very loudly why Quintana trains where no UCI testers come near. And maybe ask rudely why Nibali rides for a shameless doper on a team tainted by positives.Twitter: @RichN950 -
I'll answer the Quintana one for you. Because that's where he's from. His family live there.Forget other GC contenders as a blanket, I'd just be asking constant questions of convicted dopers like Valverde and Contador and wondering very loudly why Quintana trains where no UCI testers come near. And maybe ask rudely why Nibali rides for a shameless doper on a team tainted by positives.
yes, but why did he *choose* to be born there, eh? Awfully convenient, no?
edit: if I wasn't so tired, I'd shoehorn Michelle Froome in there somehow. Or Lance. Or Lance Froome.Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy0 -
I'll answer the Quintana one for you. Because that's where he's from. His family live there.Forget other GC contenders as a blanket, I'd just be asking constant questions of convicted dopers like Valverde and Contador and wondering very loudly why Quintana trains where no UCI testers come near. And maybe ask rudely why Nibali rides for a shameless doper on a team tainted by positives.
To be honest, if the research on Henao that Sky carried out on the effects on blood values of a high altitude native going back and forth between Europe at low altitude and Colombia at high altitude, does prove to have effects that are not currently factored into the ABP haematological module, it does beg the question whether teams will need to nix the back and forth during the season by their Colombian riders until any relevant steps are taken and rolled out in the ABP.0 -
No authorities were bothered by Henao, just Sky how were understandably a bit paranoid after the Tiernan-Locke stuff. If the ABP has flaws I don't think innocent riders should have to suffer.[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19758435#p19758435]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:
I'll answer the Quintana one for you. Because that's where he's from. His family live there.Forget other GC contenders as a blanket, I'd just be asking constant questions of convicted dopers like Valverde and Contador and wondering very loudly why Quintana trains where no UCI testers come near. And maybe ask rudely why Nibali rides for a shameless doper on a team tainted by positives.
To be honest, if the research on Henao that Sky carried out on the effects on blood values of a high altitude native going back and forth between Europe at low altitude and Colombia at high altitude, does prove to have effects that are not currently factored into the ABP haematological module, it does beg the question whether teams will need to nix the back and forth during the season by their Colombian riders until any relevant steps are taken and rolled out in the ABP.Twitter: @RichN950 -
No authorities were bothered by Henao, just Sky how were understandably a bit paranoid after the Tiernan-Locke stuff. If the ABP has flaws I don't think innocent riders should have to suffer.[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19758435#p19758435]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:
I'll answer the Quintana one for you. Because that's where he's from. His family live there.Forget other GC contenders as a blanket, I'd just be asking constant questions of convicted dopers like Valverde and Contador and wondering very loudly why Quintana trains where no UCI testers come near. And maybe ask rudely why Nibali rides for a shameless doper on a team tainted by positives.
To be honest, if the research on Henao that Sky carried out on the effects on blood values of a high altitude native going back and forth between Europe at low altitude and Colombia at high altitude, does prove to have effects that are not currently factored into the ABP haematological module, it does beg the question whether teams will need to nix the back and forth during the season by their Colombian riders until any relevant steps are taken and rolled out in the ABP.
Well, my personal view is that Brailsford was completely gun shy/OTT after having farked up over JTL, compounded by Henao's agent blabbing to GdS, leading to another fark up over Henao.
However, IF something does come out of this process that would lead to improving the ABP, then its worth it, and that goes for any other interim measures.0 -
Here we go again with Brand Brailsford. Devotees may like this seminar he gave in 2013.WPP’s Sir Martin goes one-on-one with GB Cycling Team’s Performance Director, Sir Dave Brailsford. Under Brailsford, the Great Britain Cycling Team has evolved to the world’s best, topping the medal table at both the Beijing and London Olympic Games.
Sir Martin and Sir Dave on winning, building a competitive edge and what it takes to sustain success in a fierce environment.
Read more
Wiggins arrived fully-formed and he was all set to offload one the greatest talents in history. Froome won in 2013 in spite of his team. 2014 was a GT disaster. 2015 may have been different but for a come from nowhere mountains performance from Thomas. Sky's marginal gains are maximum b0llocks....a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
I'll answer the Quintana one for you. Because that's where he's from. His family live there.Forget other GC contenders as a blanket, I'd just be asking constant questions of convicted dopers like Valverde and Contador and wondering very loudly why Quintana trains where no UCI testers come near. And maybe ask rudely why Nibali rides for a shameless doper on a team tainted by positives.
I was being facetious but a lot of the North Americans move to Europe to train while the South Americans seem happier at home even though they don't have the language barrier were they to live in Spain or Andorra.
I believe most of the top riders are doing it fairly these days and I don't have doubts about Quintana. However the one way traffic towards CF is unfair, biased and unwarranted. When it came down to it, I would not put my mortgage on CF either but I think he is doing as much as he can to placate a mob that do not want placating in the first place.0 -
Agreed, Look at the photo - Froome on the right has at least 10% more bodyfat. How the haters can't pick the weight loss is beyond me :?: :evil:Supporter of Sky, transparency and clean cycling. Opponent of pseudoscience.
The greatest clean cycling performance ever http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eiN2vfGKhk0 -
Too true. He needs to learn to be impartial like Richard Moore or David Walsh.
To put it simply, he's been radicalised.Regarding Ross Tucker, he is a scientist but so anti-Froome/Sky it's painful. He mixes with the other 'nothing Froome can do will persuade me he's clean' brigade and takes every single opportunity to write about Froome being a doper, conveniently forgetting all of the other GT contenders. What's worse, he thinks he is impartial. In other words an absolute Tucker.Supporter of Sky, transparency and clean cycling. Opponent of pseudoscience.
The greatest clean cycling performance ever http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eiN2vfGKhk0 -
The testers would get lost on the way home if their guides deserted them. ?I'll answer the Quintana one for you. Because that's where he's from. His family live there.
The USA riders spend a lot of time in the Rockies on Boring long "motorway type" roads..... but a lot of the North Americans move to Europe to train while the South Americans seem happier at home even though they don't have the language barrier were they to live in Spain or Andorra.
They don't have Continental narrow village roads and so they spend time getting acclimatised through Spanish/Italian Village roads. ?Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 19720 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19758715#p19758715]Hercules Rockefeller[/url] wrote:
Too true. He needs to learn to be impartial like Richard Moore or David Walsh.
To put it simply, he's been radicalised.Regarding Ross Tucker, he is a scientist but so anti-Froome/Sky it's painful. He mixes with the other 'nothing Froome can do will persuade me he's clean' brigade and takes every single opportunity to write about Froome being a doper, conveniently forgetting all of the other GT contenders. What's worse, he thinks he is impartial. In other words an absolute Tucker.
Walsh's Armstrong work is, of course, impeccable though."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
The testers would get lost on the way home if their guides deserted them. ?I'll answer the Quintana one for you. Because that's where he's from. His family live there.
The USA riders spend a lot of time in the Rockies on Boring long "motorway type" roads..... but a lot of the North Americans move to Europe to train while the South Americans seem happier at home even though they don't have the language barrier were they to live in Spain or Andorra.
They don't have Continental narrow village roads and so they spend time getting acclimatised through Spanish/Italian Village roads. ?
I think it is different for a lot of the South Americans. They are "old school" in that they are riding to escape poverty and providing for their families in the same way as European cyclists did in generations past. To that end they aren't for moving unnecessarily away from home and I can imagine a rider like Quintana calling it a day sooner rather than later and going back to Colombia possibly never to leave again.
Oh and on the subject of Sky's marginal gains I don't recall any other team producing their own brand of porridge and selling it to the gullible at a vastly inflated price. It must be part of their success0 -
How could it not be? When you combine it with things like hand sanitiser, individual pillows, measuring stems to the millimetre and Nutella bans, apparently the gains are huge. Just ask Edvald Boassen Hagen, Lars Petter Nordhaug, Thomas Lofkvist or Ben Swift
The testers would get lost on the way home if their guides deserted them. ?I'll answer the Quintana one for you. Because that's where he's from. His family live there.
The USA riders spend a lot of time in the Rockies on Boring long "motorway type" roads..... but a lot of the North Americans move to Europe to train while the South Americans seem happier at home even though they don't have the language barrier were they to live in Spain or Andorra.
They don't have Continental narrow village roads and so they spend time getting acclimatised through Spanish/Italian Village roads. ?
I think it is different for a lot of the South Americans. They are "old school" in that they are riding to escape poverty and providing for their families in the same way as European cyclists did in generations past. To that end they aren't for moving unnecessarily away from home and I can imagine a rider like Quintana calling it a day sooner rather than later and going back to Colombia possibly never to leave again.
Oh and on the subject of Sky's marginal gains I don't recall any other team producing their own brand of porridge and selling it to the gullible at a vastly inflated price. It must be part of their successSupporter of Sky, transparency and clean cycling. Opponent of pseudoscience.
The greatest clean cycling performance ever http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eiN2vfGKhk0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19758749#p19758749]Hercules Rockefeller[/url] wrote:
How could it not be? When you combine it with things like hand sanitiser, individual pillows, measuring stems to the millimetre and Nutella bans, apparently the gains are huge. Just ask Edvald Boassen Hagen, Lars Petter Nordhaug, Thomas Lofkvist or Ben Swift
The testers would get lost on the way home if their guides deserted them. ?I'll answer the Quintana one for you. Because that's where he's from. His family live there.
The USA riders spend a lot of time in the Rockies on Boring long "motorway type" roads..... but a lot of the North Americans move to Europe to train while the South Americans seem happier at home even though they don't have the language barrier were they to live in Spain or Andorra.
They don't have Continental narrow village roads and so they spend time getting acclimatised through Spanish/Italian Village roads. ?
I think it is different for a lot of the South Americans. They are "old school" in that they are riding to escape poverty and providing for their families in the same way as European cyclists did in generations past. To that end they aren't for moving unnecessarily away from home and I can imagine a rider like Quintana calling it a day sooner rather than later and going back to Colombia possibly never to leave again.
Oh and on the subject of Sky's marginal gains I don't recall any other team producing their own brand of porridge and selling it to the gullible at a vastly inflated price. It must be part of their success
No, the gains are marginal. The clue is in the thread title.0 -
I dare to say that Chris Froome and Geriant Thomas would say they are anything but marginal - to the point it's inspirational. Those guys have inspired me to ban all forms of hazelnut products from my cupboards. Don't worry though, almond, peanut and macadamia products are still allowed.[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19758749#p19758749]Hercules Rockefeller[/url] wrote:
How could it not be? When you combine it with things like hand sanitiser, individual pillows, measuring stems to the millimetre and Nutella bans, apparently the gains are huge. Just ask Edvald Boassen Hagen, Lars Petter Nordhaug, Thomas Lofkvist or Ben Swift
The testers would get lost on the way home if their guides deserted them. ?I'll answer the Quintana one for you. Because that's where he's from. His family live there.
The USA riders spend a lot of time in the Rockies on Boring long "motorway type" roads..... but a lot of the North Americans move to Europe to train while the South Americans seem happier at home even though they don't have the language barrier were they to live in Spain or Andorra.
They don't have Continental narrow village roads and so they spend time getting acclimatised through Spanish/Italian Village roads. ?
I think it is different for a lot of the South Americans. They are "old school" in that they are riding to escape poverty and providing for their families in the same way as European cyclists did in generations past. To that end they aren't for moving unnecessarily away from home and I can imagine a rider like Quintana calling it a day sooner rather than later and going back to Colombia possibly never to leave again.
Oh and on the subject of Sky's marginal gains I don't recall any other team producing their own brand of porridge and selling it to the gullible at a vastly inflated price. It must be part of their success
No, the gains are marginal. The clue is in the thread title.Supporter of Sky, transparency and clean cycling. Opponent of pseudoscience.
The greatest clean cycling performance ever http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eiN2vfGKhk0 -
Well Geraint Thomas' transformation from a distinctly average 2 time Olympic gold medallist and top one day rider to a good stage race rider who can mix it on medium mountain stages has left me with no faith left in cycling.
I mean he came from nowhere to improve steadily the last 4 years culminating in his best ever season last year."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
You're preaching to the choir. If they knew about this stuff when they rode for Barloworld who knows where they'd be now![url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19758769#p19758769]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:Well Geraint Thomas' transformation from a distinctly average 2 time Olympic gold medallist and top one day rider to a good stage race rider who can mix it on medium mountain stages has left me with no faith left in cycling.
I mean he came from nowhere to improve steadily the last 4 years culminating in his best ever season last year.Supporter of Sky, transparency and clean cycling. Opponent of pseudoscience.
The greatest clean cycling performance ever http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eiN2vfGKhk0 -
The focus in incremental improvement is neither new nor original.
Where sky are ahead of the curve is finding new areas to make those improvements.
They tend to do it in areas where other teams haven't thought of. Not always.0 -
possibly doing them all and not just some has been the key. Remember its actually an "aggregation" of marginal gains. And the difference between Sky and lots other teams (though not all of them) is having a big enough budget to take such an OCD approach.
Worth mentioning though are those that they have ditched such as warming up under a sheet by which I mean when they did it screened off from the public (was it a Giro?) The negative publicity that this generated by marginalising the fans who couldn't see their heroes warm up did more bad than good and was abandoned.0 -
Marginally less good?[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19758770#p19758770]Hercules Rockefeller[/url] wrote:
You're preaching to the choir. If they knew about this stuff when they rode for Barloworld who knows where they'd be now![url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19758769#p19758769]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:Well Geraint Thomas' transformation from a distinctly average 2 time Olympic gold medallist and top one day rider to a good stage race rider who can mix it on medium mountain stages has left me with no faith left in cycling.
I mean he came from nowhere to improve steadily the last 4 years culminating in his best ever season last year.0 -
Oh Hercules
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A tweet a sdhort while ago.
Team Sky @TeamSky 45 mins45 minutes ago
Long training today in #Mallorca ahead! DS Kurt Arvesen explained the route before riders left. #InsideTeamSky
It's stuff like this that is the difference. Here they are in early December sitting down for a powerpoint presentation on today's training ride. On the one hand it seems completely over the top and ridiculous on the other hand this is how this team gets results.0 -
the whole feed the riders information thing is definitely the best way of doing things. some like Cav, had an almost eidetic memory, others will absorb only bits that are useful to them.
it all helps.0 -
Too true! Contador needs to learn this if he wants to win the Tour again. He also needs to learn where the off switch is on his SRM rather than going for rides for café con leche with the amigos.A tweet a sdhort while ago.
Team Sky @TeamSky 45 mins45 minutes ago
Long training today in #Mallorca ahead! DS Kurt Arvesen explained the route before riders left. #InsideTeamSky
It's stuff like this that is the difference. Here they are in early December sitting down for a powerpoint presentation on today's training ride. On the one hand it seems completely over the top and ridiculous on the other hand this is how this team gets results.Supporter of Sky, transparency and clean cycling. Opponent of pseudoscience.
The greatest clean cycling performance ever http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eiN2vfGKhk0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19758749#p19758749]Hercules Rockefeller[/url] wrote:
How could it not be? When you combine it with things like hand sanitiser, individual pillows, measuring stems to the millimetre and Nutella bans, apparently the gains are huge. Just ask Edvald Boassen Hagen, Lars Petter Nordhaug, Thomas Lofkvist or Ben Swift
The testers would get lost on the way home if their guides deserted them. ?I'll answer the Quintana one for you. Because that's where he's from. His family live there.
The USA riders spend a lot of time in the Rockies on Boring long "motorway type" roads..... but a lot of the North Americans move to Europe to train while the South Americans seem happier at home even though they don't have the language barrier were they to live in Spain or Andorra.
They don't have Continental narrow village roads and so they spend time getting acclimatised through Spanish/Italian Village roads. ?
I think it is different for a lot of the South Americans. They are "old school" in that they are riding to escape poverty and providing for their families in the same way as European cyclists did in generations past. To that end they aren't for moving unnecessarily away from home and I can imagine a rider like Quintana calling it a day sooner rather than later and going back to Colombia possibly never to leave again.
Oh and on the subject of Sky's marginal gains I don't recall any other team producing their own brand of porridge and selling it to the gullible at a vastly inflated price. It must be part of their success
What a bizarre choice of riders.0
