Dura ace or ultegra Di2 what's the real differences
paulc33
Posts: 254
So 'be decided to treat the s-works to a winter upgrade and want to go di2
I can't decide though what to go for dura-ace or ultegra.
Is the real only differences the cost and a bit of weight. I've worked out that ultegra is about 250grams heavier as I won't be using the crank from either groupset as I have an s works crank.
I currently have SRAM red on the bike. So the other option is do I hold out for etap. But I'm worried it won't be great at first and have issues. Plus I've heard it's going to be like rocking horse poop to buy at first.
Need some help people. Do I go all out or can I save my self a large chunk of money and the ultegra di2 is actually just as good as the dura ace.
I don't race at all and probably never will. I have always wanted an s works so bought one and now fancy di2 having had a play with it a few times on bikes.
I can't decide though what to go for dura-ace or ultegra.
Is the real only differences the cost and a bit of weight. I've worked out that ultegra is about 250grams heavier as I won't be using the crank from either groupset as I have an s works crank.
I currently have SRAM red on the bike. So the other option is do I hold out for etap. But I'm worried it won't be great at first and have issues. Plus I've heard it's going to be like rocking horse poop to buy at first.
Need some help people. Do I go all out or can I save my self a large chunk of money and the ultegra di2 is actually just as good as the dura ace.
I don't race at all and probably never will. I have always wanted an s works so bought one and now fancy di2 having had a play with it a few times on bikes.
2015 Specialized S-Works Tarmac - Ultegra Di2 (7.0kg)
Kinesis Aithein - Ultegra mechanical (7.3kg)
Kinesis Maxlight Xc130 - xt/ xtr (11.3kg)
spin to win!
Kinesis Aithein - Ultegra mechanical (7.3kg)
Kinesis Maxlight Xc130 - xt/ xtr (11.3kg)
spin to win!
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Comments
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never had dura ace but for me ultra Di2 is great, functions really well. I guess dura ace is lighter but there must be better and cheaper ways to save a little weight.0
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Im probably qualified to answer that. I had dura ace 10sp the first incarnation and it was nothing short of fantastic. I put 26 thousand miles on it in just over two years in mallorca and i dropped the chain once and that was my fault. It was superb. I only sold the bike as i wanted a change and to this day regret it as nothing has since come close.
I now have a cervelo s5 with ultegra 11sp di2 and that is exactly the same if not better than the original DA 10sp.
My winter bike trek madone has ultegra di2 But the ten speed. The only real difference ive found is holding te button down on the 11sp is nice to go through the gears where as the ten speed is single tap.
My only regret with the 11sp is that getting the quick links apart on the 11sp is a nightmare. Ten speed used to do it by hand and very easy 11sp complete ball ache but save yourself the money and get ultegra 11sp its fsntastic.
If you put blind fold on i wouldnt know which is which. Ive put maybe 3500 miles on the 11sp this year as i cant get out like i used to and its never gone wrong, battery lasts forever.
You wont regret it.0 -
I have 2 bikes with Ultegra Di2 (latest 6870). Superb shifting.
Highly unlikely Dura Ace Di2 will perform better. Just lighter.My only regret with the 11sp is that getting the quick links apart on the 11sp is a nightmare.
Yeah. You need a tool to undo the link. I use a Parks one. I use KMC links.0 -
he only real difference ive found is holding te button down on the 11sp is nice to go through the gears where as the ten speed is single tap.
My Ultegra 10 speed Di2 can be programmed to do that, default was set to single tap but you can choose between holding and it will drop 3 gears or hold and it will drop down through all gears continuously.0 -
he only real difference ive found is holding te button down on the 11sp is nice to go through the gears where as the ten speed is single tap.
My Ultegra 10 speed Di2 can be programmed to do that, default was set to single tap but you can choose between holding and it will drop 3 gears or hold and it will drop down through all gears continuously.
You can't do multishift with 10 speed Dura Ace 7970 Di2, as it doesn't use the e-tube interface.0 -
As said above, I don't think there is any functional (or at least very minimal) difference between Ultegra and DA Di2. There will be a weight penalty with the Ultegra groupset, but you can make up most of that by just swapping out for a DA chainset.0
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As I said in my original post. Won't be using either chain set as have an s works chain set which is lighter than both of them.
So basically what you are all saying is save the money as DA isn't really noticeably different to ultegra but a massive amount cheaper.2015 Specialized S-Works Tarmac - Ultegra Di2 (7.0kg)
Kinesis Aithein - Ultegra mechanical (7.3kg)
Kinesis Maxlight Xc130 - xt/ xtr (11.3kg)
spin to win!0 -
Can't add much to above other than to say components are becoming more common. I'm installing 6870 with disc brakes and I think the difference is only the two dérailleurs - the rest of the Di2 kit is common to both Ultegra and Dura AceROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0
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Functionally they're pretty well identical. I've used a medium- cage Ultegra RD with an otherwise DA setup (to get a 32 largest cog for tired mountain days) and noticed no difference in shift speed or quality. Visually Dura-Ace has the edge, notably in size of the FD. Dura-Ace is lighter throughout, especially the shifters. I think it depends a) how much of a weight-weenie you are and b) if you're the kind of person who will always regret not having bought the "best". If you can avoid buyer's remorse, Ultegra is far better value, but I speak as one who replaced Ultegra 6870 with Dura-Ace 9070 because...Dura-Ace.0
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If you go hydraulic disc, that's entirely true (because the hydro shifters are non-series). If you stick with rim brakes, the DA shifters are lighter than Ultegra.Can't add much to above other than to say components are becoming more common. I'm installing 6870 with disc brakes and I think the difference is only the two dérailleurs - the rest of the Di2 kit is common to both Ultegra and Dura Ace0 -
I would hold out for SRAM etap. It is what electronic shifting should be. No wires.0
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I would hold out for SRAM etap. It is what electronic shifting should be. No wires.
Until a spotty kid with a radio drives peloton's RDs into spokes when descending. Have you not seen Battlestar Galactica? All wires or nothing!0 -
Personally, I'm yet to be convinced about entirely wireless - it feels a bit like wireless for wireless sake given that all the bits are attached to the same frame. Each item will need a power source and the brifters will still have brake lines. It will be slightly easier to install and more complex to maintain.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0
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Functionally no difference between the two, they both work superbly. Dura is a smidge lighter and looks nicer, that all you are paying for. The best value is ultegra. Having said that I always run dura on my nice bike, but I know that's a heart over brain decision.
Can't see the point in wireless whilst we have brake cables. A frame without any holes in and no rattles has an appeal but we need more than wireless gears to get there. Having said that I think SRAM have done a great job on it.0 -
Sram Red to Ultegra Di2 is a step back imo.
Feedback from highend SRAM knocks the socks off anything Shimano. Puzzled why you would want to change. :?0 -
Sram Red to Ultegra Di2 is a step back imo.
Feedback from highend SRAM knocks the socks off anything Shimano. Puzzled why you would want to change. :?
Surely 3 year old 10 speed Sram red to 11 Speed Ultra Di2 isn't a step back though?
I like the Sram red but surely electric group sets are better.... Let likely to miss shift, no cables to stretch or indexing to be carried out?2015 Specialized S-Works Tarmac - Ultegra Di2 (7.0kg)
Kinesis Aithein - Ultegra mechanical (7.3kg)
Kinesis Maxlight Xc130 - xt/ xtr (11.3kg)
spin to win!0 -
Personally, I'm yet to be convinced about entirely wireless - it feels a bit like wireless for wireless sake given that all the bits are attached to the same frame. Each item will need a power source and the brifters will still have brake lines. It will be slightly easier to install and more complex to maintain.
You are so last year. Wireless brakes is where it's at!
I find my wired mouse perfectly functional.Faster than a tent.......0 -
Ultegra Di2 is really good, and has been pretty much faultless for me. I'm intrigued by the SRAM solution, but am aware of SRAMs reliability, and short lifespan of their shifters...0
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My only regret with the 11sp is that getting the quick links apart on the 11sp is a nightmare. Ten speed used to do it by hand and very easy 11sp complete ball ache but save yourself the money and get ultegra 11sp its fsntastic.
Fairly certain the 11 speed quick links are one use only or they are certainly supposed to be. This would explain the difficulty in removing them. 0 -
Nah. I guess it depends what brand but try this (apologies hard to explain in words)
Put bike in stand and go big/small combo (biggest gear)
Pull some chain slack through towards chainset so the chain runs around the chainset until half way, then has a triangular kink half way round then runs back to cassette.
The kink is basically one too many links running round the chainset
What you want is for that "kink" to be the quicklink
Give it a whack with something hard (multi-tool) and it should come apart.
Handy hint if your stuck roadside and need to break a chain. Does make messy hands tho0 -
I reuse the 11 speed links about six times each. still a tight fit.
My only regret with the 11sp is that getting the quick links apart on the 11sp is a nightmare. Ten speed used to do it by hand and very easy 11sp complete ball ache but save yourself the money and get ultegra 11sp its fsntastic.
Fairly certain the 11 speed quick links are one use only or they are certainly supposed to be. This would explain the difficulty in removing them.
Easy to remove without a special tool. Just pull a single tooths worth of chain around the bottom of the chainring so a little triangle of chain is formed on the ring. Tap with a multitool and it pops open.0 -
What he said is probably more coherent0
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nobody seems to have mentioned DAs killer feature. if you install the ant plus kit you can control your garmin from the hidden buttons in the STIsBMC TM01 - FCN 0
Look 695 (Geared) - FCN 1
Bowman Palace:R - FCN 1
Cannondale CAAD 9 - FCN 2
Premier (CX) - FCN 6
Premier (fixed/SS) - FCN30 -
nobody seems to have mentioned DAs killer feature. if you install the ant plus kit you can control your garmin from the hidden buttons in the STIs
Unless you have 785 hydraulics, they have no hidden buttons.Rose Xeon CDX 3100, Ultegra Di2 disc (nice weather)
Ribble Gran Fondo, Campagnolo Centaur (winter bike)
Van Raam 'O' Pair
Land Rover (really nasty weather )0 -
Sram Red to Ultegra Di2 is a step back imo.
Feedback from highend SRAM knocks the socks off anything Shimano. Puzzled why you would want to change. :?
Surely 3 year old 10 speed Sram red to 11 Speed Ultra Di2 isn't a step back though?
I like the Sram red but surely electric group sets are better.... Let likely to miss shift, no cables to stretch or indexing to be carried out?
I'm with Overlord - I got off my good bike (5 year old SRAM Red with a good few K on it) onto a few hundred K old Di2 Ultegra: preferred Red: nicer feel, snappier shifting, smaller hoods, yada yada. Wouldn't change Red for Di2: although the Di2 did work very well it just wasn't as nice.
On properly set up mechanical Dura Ace and Red I have never missed a shift, cables, once they are stretched when fitting properly, don't stretch again, indexing is carried out once when setting up and that's it. Maybe a turn of the barrel adjuster once a year in the odd gear (30 second job).
The last three points are touted by people quite a lot when they want to justify something to themselves - it's no bad thing at al, to want something new, but those three reasons aren't really real reasons.
If I were you: fancy Dan new cables on your Red then wait another year until problems have been ironed out with Wireless/competition has driven down Di2 DA prices.
Or buy new mechanical Red when it's price has come even further down due to electronic competition.Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honoursmithy21 wrote:
He's right you know.0 -
How far did you ride the Ultegra Di2, Matthewfalle?
The main benefit of Di2 from my extensive experience (5 years, 2 bikes, pretty much every imaginable circumstance) is that shifting becomes subliminal: twitch a finger and it's done - you literally stop thinking about it. Mechanical shifting is simply never like that - especially the FD. One of the favourite bits of my 50k RT Highland commute was braking hard (discs) after a sharp descent, whilst shifting down the gears concurrently, and negotiating a tight chicane through an opening in a hedge before jumping back on the power. It's the closest thing to my car racing that I've got to on a bike and it just isn't the same with mechanical shifting. It would be like comparing a dog box to a conventional box.
I'm totally sold (3rd Di2 bike arriving on Sat) and never going back to mechanicalROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
Here we go again.....
Yes - the OP's question was which Di2 and the pull-it-with-bits-of-twisted-wire crew jump in the defend 1980's technology ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
What I find entertaining are Di2 converts saying that they are not convinced about wireless shifting technology saying that they don't trust it, step too far, who needs wireless anyway etc.
it is a bit like the mechanical diehards criticising Di2. makes me smile anyway.0
