Which frame
964cup
Posts: 1,362
So...I broke my Cervelo R5Ca. It can be (is being) repaired, but a broken thing once repaired is still a broken thing, so time for a replacement frame. The goal is to build a climber - in its last build, the R5Ca was 6.1kg ready to ride; the target is to get below that. Not for any good reason, please note, before you all jump in. Just because.
Options:
AX Lightness Vial Evo D - £4k-ish with the full build kit (Daedalus post, Rigida stem, 4200 bars and Leaf saddle). Looks like good value to me, and should build up to sub 5.5kg ready to go.
Regular R5. About £3250 for the frame and a replacement Enve seatpost (I'll need a layback, the R5Ca's weird geo meant a straight post).
Merida Scultura 9000 - supposedly £2,150 including seatpost. You tell me where to buy one - I can't find it anywhere.
Parlee Altum - there's one in the classifieds in what looks to be the right size. Price is a bit rich for a used frame, but might be negotiable. Will need a new post again. Otherwise about £4.4k with the post.
Or...
Options:
AX Lightness Vial Evo D - £4k-ish with the full build kit (Daedalus post, Rigida stem, 4200 bars and Leaf saddle). Looks like good value to me, and should build up to sub 5.5kg ready to go.
Regular R5. About £3250 for the frame and a replacement Enve seatpost (I'll need a layback, the R5Ca's weird geo meant a straight post).
Merida Scultura 9000 - supposedly £2,150 including seatpost. You tell me where to buy one - I can't find it anywhere.
Parlee Altum - there's one in the classifieds in what looks to be the right size. Price is a bit rich for a used frame, but might be negotiable. Will need a new post again. Otherwise about £4.4k with the post.
Or...
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Comments
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I was going to suggest a himod supersix evo as the obvious choice, however, going left field:
http://www.craddockcycles.co.uk/0 -
When they're (frame only) available, how about...
ULTIMATE CF SLX 9.00 -
Buy a complete Rose X-lite team. Spec it with any bits you want/need and then sell any bits you don't0
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Yes, saw that and considered it. But not yet available frame only, and don't have any data on weight. Otherwise definitely tempting - published build weights for whole bikes imply it's in the ballpark. Might not be "different" enough to scratch my difference itch, though.When they're (frame only) available, how about...
ULTIMATE CF SLX 9.00 -
You're the second person to suggest Craddock. Definitely interesting, but not especially light. Cheaper than a custom Parlee, and British, granted.I was going to suggest a himod supersix evo as the obvious choice, however, going left field:
http://www.craddockcycles.co.uk/0 -
Not a bad idea. But...I can't find details of their BB standard anywhere (I must have a BB30 variant or I'll have to ditch my power meter as well, which would be dull - although obvs if the frame is cheap enough it might make sense). It's about 100g heavier than the R5Ca (frame, forks, BB = 1060g). For reference the AX Lightness is under a kilo.Buy a complete Rose X-lite team. Spec it with any bits you want/need and then sell any bits you don't0 -
Supersix Hi Mod Black Edition must be in that ballpark, plus it's the correct BB for you I think.0
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Surprisingly, it's actually quite heavy (for a very light thing). Complete frameset apparently 1303g (size unknown); you can build a light bike out of it using expensive components, but the same components on a sub-kilo frameset will build a lighter bike (obviously). I grant you that the weight-weenie thing is completely out of control in my case - although I've yet to "tune" components (i.e. scrape the paint off and/or drill additional holes), and that the Supersix is otherwise acknowledged to be a very good bike.Supersix Hi Mod Black Edition must be in that ballpark, plus it's the correct BB for you I think.0 -
ETA - and I think it's only available as a full build, which leaves me selling off my Enve build kit & wheels, DA Di2 and the crankset it comes with. Looking at used values, I think that makes it the most expensive choice suggested so far, by some way. It's getting close to just buying an RCa frameset (£6.5k), which I've arbitrarily decided is too much.0
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Continuing with left field choices:
An Epoca:
http://www.epocabike.it/home/home.asp
A Festka:
http://www.festka.com/
A Legend:
http://www.legend-bikes.com/0 -
FM066-SL? Many on the Weight Weenies board rave about it. The geometry is also supposedly similar to the R5.Giant TCR Advanced II - Reviewed on my homepage
Giant TCR Alliance Zero
BMC teammachineSLR03
The Departed
Giant SCR2
Canyon Roadlite
Specialized Allez
Some other junk...0 -
Yes, saw that and considered it. But not yet available frame only, and don't have any data on weight. Otherwise definitely tempting - published build weights for whole bikes imply it's in the ballpark. Might not be "different" enough to scratch my difference itch, though.When they're (frame only) available, how about...
ULTIMATE CF SLX 9.0
2014 model frameset was 1090 gms, can't see it being much lighter for the 2016 iteration. Mind you, probably too cheap for you.
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Continuing with left field choices:
An Epoca:
http://www.epocabike.it/home/home.asp
A Festka:
http://www.festka.com/
A Legend:
http://www.legend-bikes.com/
All interesting. Epoca's website is under maintenance, so can't find out much about them - looked at their FB page - certainly *look* the part.
Festka are also nice, but a bit on the heavy side. I love their Carbon/Titanium frames but those would be for another build entirely.
I'd forgotten about Legend. Again, pretty but heavy (930g medium, so almost 300g heavier than the AX Lightness, for instance). I think of them as a Ti builder, really.
I know the weight thing is spurious (after all I build these ultra-light things, then sling half a kilo of crap in my pockets or in a seatpack) but it amuses me and it differentiates the bike from other bikes, including my other bikes. I like special editions and limited production stuff, just because it's different - even though a lot of mainstream production kit, like e.g. the Canyon, will be objectively 'better'. I do also fancy a custom frame at some point, but I don't necessarily want to combine the two, as I'd prefer custom builders to err on the side of caution when choosing tubes and joining them. And, in fact, I tend to think custom should be metal - Feather, or English, or something like that.0 -
Yes, saw that and considered it. But not yet available frame only, and don't have any data on weight. Otherwise definitely tempting - published build weights for whole bikes imply it's in the ballpark. Might not be "different" enough to scratch my difference itch, though.When they're (frame only) available, how about...
ULTIMATE CF SLX 9.0
2014 model frameset was 1090 gms, can't see it being much lighter for the 2016 iteration. Mind you, probably too cheap for you.
It's not really the money, it's the left-field thing (as Letap73 has spotted). Small production volumes tend to mean higher prices. As I said above, that doesn't mean better - it just means different. Ultimately I'm not good enough to care if my bike is the stiffest, or best handling as long as it's stiff enough and handles adequately. I suspect with the 5Ca I went too far - the top tube appears to have the structural characteristics of eggshell - but that's part of the game, I suppose, as is half-expecting whomever I buy from to be out of business before the warranty expires. I should just buy an R5, but that's the obvious choice...0 -
http://www.condorcycles.com/collections/road-bikes/products/condor-leggero-sl-frameset
http://www.wyndymilla.com/bike/massive-attack-sl/
http://dynamicrides.co.uk/pages/products/sarto
http://www.sartoantonio.com/en/bicycles/category/road-bicycles
http://mosquito-bikes.co.uk/product/moots-vamoots-rsl/
I like these0 -
Comtat:
http://www.comtat.co.uk/products/380.htm
There is another british based firm which make very light frames less than 900g - they started about the same time as Craddock but I cannot remember their name.0 -
Zetta distribution deal with EPOCA - I believe Ptestteam on this forum is the person to contact with regards Zetta.0
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FM066-SL? Many on the Weight Weenies board rave about it. The geometry is also supposedly similar to the R5.
The FM066/SL geometry is almost identical to a Cannondale CAAD10/Supersix. Only the design and tubes shapes, mainly the 'squoval' downtube is R5 alike.
I've got one. Good frame but doesn't have that wow factor that the frames above would probably give you.0 -
I like the look of the Vial. I'd also take a serious look at the Scott Addict SL. Also what about the Fuji SL? Just as light as the other and stupid cheap.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0
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Wow. If the Fuji SL 2.5 is the same frame and fork as the 1.1, you're not wrong. Damn. Missed the Evans Black Friday deal; that would have been even cheaper.I like the look of the Vial. I'd also take a serious look at the Scott Addict SL. Also what about the Fuji SL? Just as light as the other and stupid cheap.
Looks like no-one has the Addict frameset in stock in the UK or Germany in a 56. Another good shout and perhaps worth waiting till January - after all, I'm not going to be riding this bike for a couple of months yet anyway.0 -
Heavy. Bit dull, and I already have a Condor (Super Acciaio)
Ah. Now you're talking. I didn't know they went that light. Grill - you have a WyndyMilla, don't you? How is it/was the buying experience?
Maybe. Will look into this a bit more.
Moots is a good name, but I already have an Enigma Excel, so I'm good for (relatively) exotic Ti.0 -
Had a Massive Attack; good bike. They told me not to go with SL as I was coming off a Foil and might not find it stiff enough.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0
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Continuing with left field choices:
An Epoca:
http://www.epocabike.it/home/home.asp
A Festka:
http://www.festka.com/
A Legend:
http://www.legend-bikes.com/
All interesting. Epoca's website is under maintenance, so can't find out much about them - looked at their FB page - certainly *look* the part.
Festka are also nice, but a bit on the heavy side. I love their Carbon/Titanium frames but those would be for another build entirely.
I'd forgotten about Legend. Again, pretty but heavy (930g medium, so almost 300g heavier than the AX Lightness, for instance). I think of them as a Ti builder, really.
I know the weight thing is spurious (after all I build these ultra-light things, then sling half a kilo of crap in my pockets or in a seatpack) but it amuses me and it differentiates the bike from other bikes, including my other bikes. I like special editions and limited production stuff, just because it's different - even though a lot of mainstream production kit, like e.g. the Canyon, will be objectively 'better'. I do also fancy a custom frame at some point, but I don't necessarily want to combine the two, as I'd prefer custom builders to err on the side of caution when choosing tubes and joining them. And, in fact, I tend to think custom should be metal - Feather, or English, or something like that.
I own an Epoca R60. You're right, the website is still under construction. They are tube-to-tube carbon fibre, custom hand built near Monte Grappa in the Veneto.
However, Epoca don't aim to build superlight bikes. Their lightest frame is the R30, which I think is around 800-900gr off the top of my head. So they don't fit your brief, but as a custom builder they can build want you want (up to a point).0 -
Maybe. Will look into this a bit more.
I'm sure they make the wyndymilla frame and also fondriest frame i think0 -
Plan so far is to have the R5Ca repaired and converted to Di2 only; that's already hit some snags, though. In the meantime I'll carry on researching, although I think the shortlist so far is:
AX Lightness Vial Evo D (or the Ultra if I go mad, but then I might as well buy an RCa)
Fuji 1.1 SL (if I can find the frame, which looks absurdly cheap, instead of the full bike, which ain't). The 2.x is a different frame - lower grade of carbon etc, so the entry level is now the 1.5, which is about £3400 and comes with loads of bits to sell off/throw away.
Scott Addict SL if anyone chooses to stock it.
With the Cannondale Supersix Evo Black Inc. as a stalking horse, if only for having the stupidest name. That's also proper money, but it's a complete bike with the right bits, apart from a power meter. It has the right BB to use my existing meter, or I can buy a Power2Max for it.0 -
What about this not very left field - a lot of bike for the money:
https://www.merlincycles.com/felt-f-frd-road-bike-2014-75135.html0 -
How about that Lightweight frame & forks - team it with some Obermayers and full Red and it'll blow away in the wind ......Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honoursmithy21 wrote:
He's right you know.0 -
I'm following this thread with interest as I'm in a similar position, - keep us up to date with whatever you get up to 964Cup.
I'm probably going to dive in for the frame and parts in January when a few sales are going on. I was thinking along the lines of an R5, but am now tending to move towards an R3, and use the money saved for better/lighter components. But I'm still in the headscratching phase.0 -
I've been watching that; it was even cheaper on "cyber Monday" and I very nearly went for it, but it's a bit "old school" without having the sad Cervelo fanboi tingle that the equally old-school R5Ca gave me.What about this not very left field - a lot of bike for the money:
https://www.merlincycles.com/felt-f-frd-road-bike-2014-75135.html
Frankly at my (and most recreational cyclists') level, I suspect that any 6-ish kg bike will be good enough, so this is almost entirely an emotional decision. I am (was) very attached to my Cervelo, and will see if I can live with the repaired and customised version, but I suspect now that I know it was broken, it'll never feel quite the same again. Almost certainly it will in fact be perfectly fine, but if this was rational I'd just buy a Canyon and STFU.0 -
It's not actually that lightweight, that's the irony (790g for the frame in a 56).How about that Lightweight frame & forks - team it with some Obermayers and full Red and it'll blow away in the wind ......
Current thinking is:
AX Lightness Vial Evo D - 1Kg for frame, forks, hardware in a 56
AX Lightness Leaf Plus saddle - 93g
AX Lightness Daedalus setback seatpost - 130g (27.2/320mm)
AX Lightness Rigid stem - 75g (120mm)
AX Lightness 4200 Ergo bars - 168g (42cm c-c)
Rotor Power LT crank - 565g
Praxis Works chainrings - 153g (with bolts)
Dura-Ace Di2 shifters, FD, RD, battery, cabling, brakes, climber switch - 954g
Nokon brake cabling - 100g
SRAM XG1190 cassette - 151g (11-28)
SRAM Red 22 chain - 230g
Arundel Mandible cages - 56g (for two)
Speedplay Ti pedals (tuned with Ti butterflies and bolts) - 156g
Enve 45 tubular wheels on CK45 with Schwalbe One 24 tubs - 1620g
Bartape, chain-catcher, expander bung, out-front mount - say 100g
Should come out at 5.55kg ready to go. Say 6kg with spare tub, tools, Garmin etc. About 600g lighter than the R5Ca was (although that's mostly in the finishing kit, not the frameset). It could be a sub 5kg bike with SRAM Red and some other expensive bits, but one has to draw the line somewhere.
I already have everything except the AX Lightness kit, so I'm broadly good to go if I can bring myself to spend the necessary euros...0
