Forum home Road cycling forum Road general

Law for cyclists to have the same rules as drivers

AmyBeckerAmyBecker Posts: 2
edited November 2015 in Road general
Sorry for the link but had to post: http://bit.ly/1krXKjd

'Goading' cyclists??? should these guys be as accountable for their actions as motorists?

Has anyone ever been goaded by a cyclist?! :lol:
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  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 19,147
    My guess is that he wants new business revenue - Representing cyclists.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • He's self aggrandising, don't give him the attention!
  • pinnopinno Posts: 45,364
    Maybe deep down, he wants to Goated by a cyclist.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    Maybe deep down, he wants to Goated by a cyclist.

    Sounds like some sick form of bestiality in lycra
  • pinnopinno Posts: 45,364
    Maybe deep down, he wants to Goated by a cyclist.

    Sounds like some sick form of bestiality in lycra

    That's because it is. However, the best guys for the job wear flappity shorts and ride scaffolding with knobbly tyres.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • In addition there are a number of cyclists who seem to totally disregard the Highway Code and ignore signals and junctions at their own peril. Motorists are easily identified by their registration plates, but cyclists are relatively anonymous.

    The 'at their own peril' bit is important.

    A car can do significant harm to persons and property. It's in the public interest for the state to spend money controlling who uses these machines and how they use them.

    On the other hand, whilst it is possible to cause some harm and property damage on a bike, it is vastly reduced. You don't hear of many houses caved in by a speeding cyclist flying off the road, or pedestrians knocked down and killed. Breaking traffic rules can put cyclists at greater personal risk, but the risk to the general public is only slight. There is little public interest for spending time and money regulating it.

    If it ever got to the point where injured cyclists were putting a strain on public health resources, or that there were significant instances of cyclist causing harm to others, then it may become a public interest to regulate it.

    Maybe you could argue cyclists are a public nuisance if by breaking traffic rules they cause congestion.

    Mostly the call to regulate cyclists come from stressed drivers sat in traffic, incensed that someone is 'jumping the queue' or 'holding them up'.
  • pinnopinno Posts: 45,364
    Don't take this [email protected] seriously thomasmorris.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    In addition there are a number of cyclists who seem to totally disregard the Highway Code and ignore signals and junctions at their own peril. Motorists are easily identified by their registration plates, but cyclists are relatively anonymous.

    You don't hear of many houses caved in by a speeding cyclist flying off the road, or pedestrians knocked down and killed.

    http://road.cc/content/news/152677-livingston-jogger-dies-after-being-hit-cyclist

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3070290/Cyclist-killed-pensioner-crashing-doing-25mph-narrow-country-lane-dark-rainy-night.html

    Here are to from about 6 months ago. I am sure there are plenty of other people who get hit by cyclists who survive but are still badly injured.
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    In addition there are a number of cyclists who seem to totally disregard the Highway Code and ignore signals and junctions at their own peril. Motorists are easily identified by their registration plates, but cyclists are relatively anonymous.

    You don't hear of many houses caved in by a speeding cyclist flying off the road, or pedestrians knocked down and killed.

    http://road.cc/content/news/152677-livingston-jogger-dies-after-being-hit-cyclist

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3070290/Cyclist-killed-pensioner-crashing-doing-25mph-narrow-country-lane-dark-rainy-night.html

    Here are to from about 6 months ago. I am sure there are plenty of other people who get hit by cyclists who survive but are still badly injured.

    A predictable missing of the point! About 400 pedestrians are killed a year by cars so you've listed about 1 percent of the total pedestrian deaths there if your list only covers the last 6 months. The original comment says 'not many' which is different to none.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    In addition there are a number of cyclists who seem to totally disregard the Highway Code and ignore signals and junctions at their own peril. Motorists are easily identified by their registration plates, but cyclists are relatively anonymous.

    You don't hear of many houses caved in by a speeding cyclist flying off the road, or pedestrians knocked down and killed.

    http://road.cc/content/news/152677-livingston-jogger-dies-after-being-hit-cyclist

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3070290/Cyclist-killed-pensioner-crashing-doing-25mph-narrow-country-lane-dark-rainy-night.html

    Here are to from about 6 months ago. I am sure there are plenty of other people who get hit by cyclists who survive but are still badly injured.

    A predictable missing of the point! About 400 pedestrians are killed a year by cars so you've listed about 1 percent of the total pedestrian deaths there if your list only covers the last 6 months. The original comment says 'not many' which is different to none.

    No. You said you don't hear of many people being killed by cyclists. Well I found two in a matter of minutes. So its a falsehood. People being killed by bikes or cars or anything should not be treated as a statistic
  • bompingtonbompington Posts: 7,674
    Well I found two in a matter of minutes. So its a falsehood. People being killed by bikes or cars or anything should not be treated as a statistic
    Err, this is the 21st century. It took me (or more truthfully Google) 0.38 seconds. It only took 0.42 seconds to find "hen's teeth", and we all know how common they are.

    Of course it's a tragedy when anyone dies, but we're talking about public policy here, where you have to cold-bloodedly look at the stats. Unless you're suggesting that we change the law until nobody dies, ever.
  • Wait, hang on.... given that the solution most spouted for cyclists being killed by cars is for cyclists to dress head-to-toe in dayglo clothes, wear a helmet, have a bazillion lights and complete a test to prove they're capable of riding a bike, shouldn't the same logic be applied to pedestrians. How come victim-blaming only works for us?
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    Well I found two in a matter of minutes. So its a falsehood. People being killed by bikes or cars or anything should not be treated as a statistic
    Err, this is the 21st century. It took me (or more truthfully Google) 0.38 seconds. It only took 0.42 seconds to find "hen's teeth", and we all know how common they are.

    Of course it's a tragedy when anyone dies, but we're talking about public policy here, where you have to cold-bloodedly look at the stats. Unless you're suggesting that we change the law until nobody dies, ever.

    There is a highway code is there not? This is a rule book of how road users should conduct themselves while in control of their mode of transport. A cyclist has just as much responsibility for the way they conduct themselves as a 12 ton truck driver. You get good drivers and you get censored drivers and you get aggressive drivers who think they own the road. You also get exactly the same types of cyclists. The mode of transport does not dictate the personality of the person in charge of it. Its nothing to do with cyclist vs drivers. its normal sensible people against [email protected] in cars, trucks, busses and on bikes. That is a fact of our society
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 19,147
    Equal laws. Interesting concept.
    I await compulsory hi-viz cars.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • Well I found two in a matter of minutes. So its a falsehood. People being killed by bikes or cars or anything should not be treated as a statistic
    Err, this is the 21st century. It took me (or more truthfully Google) 0.38 seconds. It only took 0.42 seconds to find "hen's teeth", and we all know how common they are.

    Of course it's a tragedy when anyone dies, but we're talking about public policy here, where you have to cold-bloodedly look at the stats. Unless you're suggesting that we change the law until nobody dies, ever.

    There is a highway code is there not? This is a rule book of how road users should conduct themselves while in control of their mode of transport. A cyclist has just as much responsibility for the way they conduct themselves as a 12 ton truck driver. You get good drivers and you get censored drivers and you get aggressive drivers who think they own the road. You also get exactly the same types of cyclists. The mode of transport does not dictate the personality of the person in charge of it. Its nothing to do with cyclist vs drivers. its normal sensible people against [email protected] in cars, trucks, busses and on bikes. That is a fact of our society

    Yeah, about 1-2 people year are killed by cyclists, a fraction of that by cars. Many of these deaths aren't the fault of the driver or the cyclist though, and therefore better regulation is not the answer. How many pedestrian deaths or serious damage is caused by cyclists breaking traffic laws? Not sure where to get those statistics from though... I heard of a cyclist who bumped up a curb and killed a lady in the news once.

    I'm certainly not advocating cyclists braking the rules. My point is that in a car it is easier to reach speeds that cause serious harm to others, and therefore it's in the public interest to regulate it more ( licences, registration, etc.).
  • navrig2navrig2 Posts: 1,704
    That smirk says it all really!!

    freeman.png
  • pinnopinno Posts: 45,364
    Print it off and throw darts at it.

    If someone was really clever, they would make a Voodoo doll and ride over it on a bike.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • FlâneurFlâneur Posts: 3,081
    I'd trust him with Pinno's squeeze
    Stevo 666 wrote: Come on you Scousers! 20/12/2014
    Crudder
    CX
    Toy
  • Equal laws. Interesting concept.
    I await compulsory hi-viz cars.
    I read somewhere the colour of car that has the highest accident rate is that day glow yellow colour you get on the likes of Ford focus st hot hatch type of cars. So I hope hi-viz never becomes compulsory with cars.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 19,147
    Equal laws. Interesting concept.
    I await compulsory hi-viz cars.
    I read somewhere the colour of car that has the highest accident rate is that day glow yellow colour you get on the likes of Ford focus st hot hatch type of cars. So I hope hi-viz never becomes compulsory with cars.
    Is that not more to do with the type of person who would buy a day glow yellow ST out of choice?
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • pinnopinno Posts: 45,364
    Equal laws. Interesting concept.
    I await compulsory hi-viz cars.
    I read somewhere the colour of car that has the highest accident rate is that day glow yellow colour you get on the likes of Ford focus st hot hatch type of cars. So I hope hi-viz never becomes compulsory with cars.

    Where exactly ? :roll:
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • StillGoingStillGoing Posts: 5,207
    He's not had any high profile cases for a while so is touting for business and headlines.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • Yep, it's a bit rich coming from a guy who makes a living getting motorists - who have broken the law - evade prosecution on a technicality.
  • Yep, it's a bit rich coming from a guy who makes a living getting motorists - who have broken the law - evade prosecution on a technicality.

    I was thinking exactly the same thing - how this guy can take a stand on road safety when he spends most of his time keeping bad drivers on the road is surely the definition of irony!
  • Equal laws. Interesting concept.
    I await compulsory hi-viz cars.
    I read somewhere the colour of car that has the highest accident rate is that day glow yellow colour you get on the likes of Ford focus st hot hatch type of cars. So I hope hi-viz never becomes compulsory with cars.
    Is that not more to do with the type of person who would buy a day glow yellow ST out of choice?
    Bingo! Will we all become that type?
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 19,147
    Equal laws. Interesting concept.
    I await compulsory hi-viz cars.
    I read somewhere the colour of car that has the highest accident rate is that day glow yellow colour you get on the likes of Ford focus st hot hatch type of cars. So I hope hi-viz never becomes compulsory with cars.
    Is that not more to do with the type of person who would buy a day glow yellow ST out of choice?
    Bingo! Will we all become that type?
    Key words in red.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    The bit I find most amusing is the bikes should be registered and riders have a license argument. Last time I looked the vast majority of people riding bikes on the road had a license already. I have a car and motorcycle license so surely that should be sufficient for riding a bicycle. As for rego plates, what sort of plate could you use that made the bike identifiable but didn't represent an injury risk to cyclist or pedestrian in a crash?

    I wonder how the people who suggest this would feel if the government sent someone round to confiscate their childrens bikes cos they weren't registered, insured and they didn't have a licence.
  • I wonder if one of his clients was.this.guy who's got 38 points on his licence.but has a had no ban. Not sure how true it is because IIRC it was a BBC local authorities news bit for nw England (think he's from Burnley). Apparently I there's quite a a few who are.significantly over.the points limit of 12 who have not been a banned.

    Before new road offences or before they bring more groups into the traffic offence system we should make sure we at least able to enforce existing offences on those they apply. That means no more loopholes for that guy to exploit. Put him out of business. I can dream can't i?
  • The bit I find most amusing is the bikes should be registered and riders have a license argument. Last time I looked the vast majority of people riding bikes on the road had a license already. I have a car and motorcycle license so surely that should be sufficient for riding a bicycle. As for rego plates, what sort of plate could you use that made the bike identifiable but didn't represent an injury risk to cyclist or pedestrian in a crash?

    A smaller version of a motorbike number plate but made of rubber. However I would not want one on my bike because it would censored up my aero profile. And anyway, I am cycling more these days because motoring is becoming more and more unpleasant as a result of speed cameras, congestion and the OTT regulations. How is giving cyclists the same rules as drivers gonna help the situation? Cycling on a motorway isnt any more desirable than driving on one.

    I do believe the car is quickly becoming obsolete as a form of private transport. There is limited space on the road yet the government continues to allow more and more people to get tested, trained etc to drive on them. The roads have already reached breaking point in the cities, they are not gonna get better any time soon. Also thanks to the regulations drivers have to pay through the nose to keep their vehicles legal, pay again to keep them moving and pay again to find somewhere to stop them. Cycling helps provide some sort of alternative for some, dont take that away.
  • pinnopinno Posts: 45,364
    I have put this idea forward before but have been contradicted. However, here goes. I have got my helmet on though it won't be much use.

    First of all, a national compulsory insurance scheme costing very little. Every cyclist can get the benefit of it after an accident, whether loss of earnings or replacing a bicycle or legal fees. £10(?) a year, buy it at the post office. A little slip of weather proofed paper that you can carry in your pocket.

    Couple this with a change in the judicial process, not the law. In the event of an accident causing death or serious injury, a small proceeding with one judge could sit and decide of there is a criminal case to be held or not. Both sides get to present the argument. The insurance scheme can fund it.

    This may dissuade car drivers in that they know their actions given injury can be held accountable after due consideration and maybe the mentality of certain cyclists who give the vast majority a bad name may change as they too could be held accountable in similar circumstances. Too often we have seen in the past, police forces (Reading incident) being dismissive of death to cyclists and drivers getting away with paltry punishment.
    Maybe knowing that the cyclist is insured and that he/she has the backing of a funded insurance scheme, they will give us a bit more room and consideration because trying to appeal to the basic right to life/safety just like any other road user is seemingly totally ineffectual. We are 2nd class citizens who are an odd bunch, who wear lycra and go out on our 'push' bikes for some inexplicable reason, to them.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
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