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New Chainset, terrible noise! (Video Included)

nullethnulleth Posts: 13
edited November 2015 in Workshop
Hi all.
Cannondale Synapse, it's 3 months old, and the FSA Velo chainset was terrible so I replaced it with a matching Sora one. Unfortunately, the noise worsened!

Shimano 4600 Hollowtech BB, Sora Chainset, Shimano HG93 chain. All brand new.

https://vid.me/k89C

In the video I move from middle rear, to smallest rear. The noise is heard in the first section, but becomes incredibly loud at the end.
The noise is coming from when the chain contacts the chainring teeth.
It happens most in the large front, small back, but is heard in all combinations.

I'm certain that's where the noise is coming from, I've had my ear to it and even move the front derailleur to confirm.

Old parts, noise is there.
New parts, noise is worse.

Is the frame bent, does the bottom bracket mount need facing, what's going on?
Please help, it's driving me crazy.
Thank you.
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Posts

  • trailflowtrailflow Posts: 1,311
    edited October 2015
    Things to check

    Chain is fully oiled/lubed
    Chainline. You might need more or less or no spacers behind the BB cups
    Chain isn't rubbing on the FD cage
    Damaged chain links
    Stiff chain links
    Chain pins protruding out further than they should be
    Rear wheel is seated fully
    Cassette lockring is tight
    Too many or not enough spacers on the freehub
    Hanger is tight on the frame
    RD is tight on the hanger
    Hanger not bent
    Jockey wheel bolts are tight
    RD isnt bent
    Chainring bolts are tight
  • nicklousenicklouse Posts: 81,520 Lives Here
    go ride it.

    the sharp edges will soom wear off.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • nullethnulleth Posts: 13
    Things to check

    Chain is fully oiled/lubed
    Chainline. You might need more or less or no spacers behind the BB cups
    Chain isn't rubbing on the FD cage
    Damaged chain links
    Stiff chain links
    Chain pins protruding out further than they should be
    Rear wheel is seated fully
    Cassette lockring is tight
    Too many or not enough spacers on the freehub
    Hanger is tight on the frame
    RD is tight on the hanger
    Hanger not bent
    Jockey wheel bolts are tight
    RD isnt bent
    Chainring bolts are tight

    All good there.
    This is just a mystery to me.

    Could it be because the bottom bracket is off by a few degrees and might need refacing?
  • mfinmfin Posts: 6,724
    All good there.
    This is just a mystery to me.

    Why not show it to someone experienced who can work it out then?
  • nullethnulleth Posts: 13
    All good there.
    This is just a mystery to me.

    Why not show it to someone experienced who can work it out then?

    No money, no LBS, and I'd like to learn how to fix it myself.

    Two closest "LBS" charge are terrible.
    They both wanted to charge over £15 a day on labour, and £20 for a BB which cost £7 online (this was for a different bike).
    No one else within reasonable distance.
  • crankycrankcrankycrank Posts: 1,830
    That really sounds like it's just your chain rubbing on the front derailleur. Is it adjusted and trimmed properly? Possibly a turn of the cable adjuster to tighten the cable will solve the problem provided your limit screws are adjusted properly.
  • nullethnulleth Posts: 13
    That really sounds like it's just your chain rubbing on the front derailleur. Is it adjusted and trimmed properly? Possibly a turn of the cable adjuster to tighten the cable will solve the problem provided your limit screws are adjusted properly.

    It's exactly what it sounds like, but I can positively say it's not.
    I've completely moved it out the way, the noise is 100% coming from the chain touching the teeth.
  • mfinmfin Posts: 6,724
    All good there.
    This is just a mystery to me.

    Why not show it to someone experienced who can work it out then?

    No money, no LBS, and I'd like to learn how to fix it myself.

    ...and no cyclist friends?

    Are you sure the noise isn't coming from badly indexed gears?

    By the way, if you want to know if it's a bb problem take the chain off, then inspect how the chainset feels with no chain, I don't think it will be it at all though, although you might like to do it to know yourself.

    The rate of the sound is chain noise of some kind (well, that's exactly what it sounds like), so I'd be looking very carefully for things that could be causing it. Sounds like front mech to me too by the way.

    Also, is that chain the right length, it's not wacky long is it and fouling the jockey cage?
  • trailflowtrailflow Posts: 1,311
    edited October 2015
    Also check if there is any excess movement in the freehub and the hub lock nuts are tight.
  • mfinmfin Posts: 6,724
    Hang on, you said you have a new HG93 chain, that's 9 speed. What speed is that drivetrain, 10? 11? Surely 9 can't be right? ...EDIT, it probably is 9 speed, I thought all shimano stuff was 10 or 11 by now.
  • nullethnulleth Posts: 13
    Yup, 9 speed all the way.
    I've moved the Fd completely out the way, indexed 3 times, checked the chain length, moved the rear derailleur by hand (pushed, pulled, leaned).
    I've pedalled backwards, removed and refit the cassette, lubed, cleaned, checked bb movement.

    I have never come across this before.
    I'm stumped.

    It happens in both front chainrings, and is heard more when at the smallest and largest cassette rings.
    This make it SEEM like a FD issue, but that's completely clear.

    100% certain the noise is coming from where the chain touches the teeth.
    Now, this is why I changed the entire setup to Sora from FSA Velo. Same noise.

    Could this be because the bottom bracket isn't faced properly with the frame?
    Could it be off angle slightly, causing excess twist on the extremes?
  • keezxkeezx Posts: 1,316
    Could this be because the bottom bracket isn't faced properly with the frame?
    Could it be off angle slightly, causing excess twist on the extremes?

    No , nothing to do with it.
  • It will take any decent mechanic 5 mins to find the noise and figure out a cure.
    Just take it to a shop.
  • trailflowtrailflow Posts: 1,311
    Could this be because the bottom bracket isn't faced properly with the frame?
    Could it be off angle slightly, causing excess twist on the extremes?

    Remove the chainset and bb cups and see if there is any excess paint around the edges of the bottom bracket. Then remove with sand paper.

    Also check the cassette cogs are in the correct order and installed in the correct grooves.

    And check the b-screw adjustment.

    Might just be a poorly manufactured chain. Try a different branded chain.
  • mfinmfin Posts: 6,724

    Could this be because the bottom bracket isn't faced properly with the frame?
    Could it be off angle slightly, causing excess twist on the extremes?

    Facing a BB is to remove paint and stuff, it won't re-align a chainset. IF your bb was aligned badly when the frame was built, enough to have a chainset on the p1ss enough to cause this then you'd see it.

    As said above, take it to someone who knows. You said your shop charges £15 an hour? They might not even charge you for taking a quick look.
  • bbrapbbrap Posts: 610
    When you changed your chain did you dismantle any of the RD (i.e take off the jockey wheels?). Check the jockey wheels are the correct way on (both rotation and location). I'm assuming the chain is threaded correctly through the jockey wheels (i.e. not over the little keeper tag). As you had the problem from new it may have been assembled incorrectly.
    Rose Xeon CDX 3100, Ultegra Di2 disc (nice weather)
    Ribble Gran Fondo, Campagnolo Centaur (winter bike)
    Van Raam 'O' Pair
    Land Rover (really nasty weather :lol: )
  • nullethnulleth Posts: 13
    When you changed your chain did you dismantle any of the RD (i.e take off the jockey wheels?). Check the jockey wheels are the correct way on (both rotation and location). I'm assuming the chain is threaded correctly through the jockey wheels (i.e. not over the little keeper tag). As you had the problem from new it may have been assembled incorrectly.

    All new, jockey's are fine. The noise is absolutely from the front.
  • SecteurSecteur Posts: 1,971
    The noise is absolutely from the front.


    One thing I have learnt and been continually surprised by is the fact that sounds often don't come from where you are 100000% sure they are coming from.

    My guess here is that you've got something / doing something wrong, and no amount of guessing is going to put it right as you are obviously clueless (no offence meant).

    Bite the bullet and take it to a mechanic (it wont cost that much!), or give up now!
  • mamba80mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    If the bike is 3 months old, then its under warranty, unless you mean you ve had the bike 3 months?

    Before u change gear the sound is barely audible, so as all parts are new & that it happens when FD remved, it has to be an alignment and/or chain length/fault issue, does the noise decrease as you move up into larger cogs at the rear.

    Do the gears index perfectly at the rear? so eliminating a gear hanger problem.

    Also is the noise the same when bike correct way up? chain tension is affected when upside down.

    So if it were me, i d try another wheel and cassette and then a new chain, oh and you have checked to see if chain is directional? ie writing is on outside, i m sure it is on an hg93
  • If the bike is 3 months old, then its under warranty, unless you mean you ve had the bike 3 months?

    Before u change gear the sound is barely audible, so as all parts are new & that it happens when FD remved, it has to be an alignment and/or chain length/fault issue, does the noise decrease as you move up into larger cogs at the rear.

    Do the gears index perfectly at the rear? so eliminating a gear hanger problem.

    Also is the noise the same when bike correct way up? chain tension is affected when upside down.

    So if it were me, i d try another wheel and cassette and then a new chain, oh and you have checked to see if chain is directional? ie writing is on outside, i m sure it is on an hg93

    Thanks for the reply.

    Less noise in the middle rear cogs, more noise on the outter cogs.

    Index perfectly in the rear.

    Noise is the same both correct way up and upside down.

    I've tried a different rear wheel and cassette.
    Tried a new KMC 993 chain, FSA Velo chainset too.
    Tried the chain both ways too.

    This is what's worrying me: Two entirely brand drive chains have the same issue.
  • Is the chain fed correctly through the rear mech jockey wheels? It has been known for the chain to be threaded outside the jockey wheel carrier, result chain noise!
    I don't do Cold, Wet, Uphill or into the wind!!
  • Is the chain fed correctly through the rear mech jockey wheels? It has been known for the chain to be threaded outside the jockey wheel carrier, result chain noise!

    Yup, all good there.
  • trailflowtrailflow Posts: 1,311
    Then i'd say your frame might be bent or misaligned.

    Was this noise audible from the first day you received the bike ? or if not have you hit any particularly big potholes or had any big crashes ?
  • Then i'd say your frame might be bent or misaligned.

    Was this noise audible from the first day you received the bike ? or if not have you hit any particularly big potholes or had any big crashes ?

    I'm worried you're right.
    Is there any way to know for sure?

    It was audible straight away, but I assumed it was just in need of minor service / indexing.
    I rode it for a week or two doing minor adjustments.
  • mamba80mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Then i'd say your frame might be bent or misaligned.

    Was this noise audible from the first day you received the bike ? or if not have you hit any particularly big potholes or had any big crashes ?

    yes my conclusion too, does the rear wheel sit squarely in the frame? you check wheel alignment using a long straight edge

    when you are on big front /small rear i would expect to see the 2 RD pulley centres to be at 90' to the ground, is this the case? if not is the chain too short or long?

    aside from this, assuming your not telling porkies and you ve done all you say, you need to take to a mechanic?

    So, is the bike new? if so, its under warranty and even if bought online, you still have full sale of good rights, though if you do make a claim, put back all the original parts first and dont tell them you ve swopped anything over.
  • Wheel sits perfectly. RD is excellent too.

    It's 3 months old. Cannondale Warranty uk won't touch it, and the shop have been arguing for 3 months over it.
    I've asked for a refund, but they are making my life difficult, which is why I'm here.
  • mamba80mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Wheel sits perfectly. RD is excellent too.

    It's 3 months old. Cannondale Warranty uk won't touch it, and the shop have been arguing for 3 months over it.
    I've asked for a refund, but they are making my life difficult, which is why I'm here.

    name and shame on their fb page and on here, go to small claims court, costs £60, the threat is usually enough

    if you paid with a CC you ve additional protection.
  • me-109me-109 Posts: 1,427
    Hanger alignment?
  • I just tried increasing the chain tension by doing this..

    http://i.imgur.com/2kwduiO.jpg

    And it helped with the noise.
    What's going on?
  • crankycrankcrankycrank Posts: 1,830
    Can you post a photo of the entire chain while in the small/small cog and chainring? If increasing the chain tension helps I would say that's a good clue about chain length or as mentioned the B-Tension screw although I would be very surprised if several different mechanics missed either of these problems.
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