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Spinning advice?

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  • JodyPJodyP Posts: 193
    1 in 100 suffers a stroke, 1 in 100,000? Please quantify how dangerous spinning is to the average middle aged over weight participant. Do you have any tangible figures to prove how extremely dangerous spin classes are?
  • brianbeebrianbee Posts: 330
    1 in 100 suffers a stroke, 1 in 100,000? Please quantify how dangerous spinning is to the average middle aged over weight participant. Do you have any tangible figures to prove how extremely dangerous spin classes are?

    You have a 1 in 100,000 chance of meeting an untimely death in any given year. So if its ONLY one in a 100,000 deaths caused by spinning, you have double your likelihood of departing this earth,,Thats a 100% more likely to die, this year, that counts as extremely dangerous to me
  • "Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience." Don't get worked up people - stay strong. If you know what you are doing is right that is all that matters. Shame some ignorant people on here could sway they views of a new member looking for advice but most users are smart enough on here to read behind the lines..

    James just started the topic by saying he just joined the gym and worked really hard. I say congratulations to him on both counts. Step back and look at what you are really saying.. We don't need to be belittled or criticized on here to feed your ego.

    Pretty funny topic really, I still believe everyone is entitled to their views - just adds to the forum. We just hate getting a certain someone's negativity rammed down out throat!

    P.S.

    Your are always negative and wrong and everyone on her knows it! Have a nice day everyone reading and enjoy your cycling :)
    Stay positive people :)
  • njee20njee20 Posts: 9,613
    So if its ONLY one in a 100,000 deaths caused by spinning

    Caused by spinning? 1:100,000 deaths? You're on crack. 1:100,000,000 maybe! I can't find any data on exercised induced stroke fatalities, Andrew Marr suggested his non fatal stroke was caused by over work and a vigorous exercise session. Neither of those in isolation. It's a very rare occurrence. You'd have a better argument if you went down the heart attack route. Plenty of people die doing exercise from a sudden cardiac arrest.

    But yes, better people do no exercise and get obese. That's definitely better for your health!
  • brianbeebrianbee Posts: 330
    So if its ONLY one in a 100,000 deaths caused by spinning

    Caused by spinning? 1:100,000 deaths? You're on crack. 1:100,000,000 maybe! I can't find any data on exercised induced stroke fatalities, Andrew Marr suggested his non fatal stroke was caused by over work and a vigorous exercise session. Neither of those in isolation. It's a very rare occurrence. You'd have a better argument if you went down the heart attack route. Plenty of people die doing exercise from a sudden cardiac arrest.

    But yes, better people do no exercise and get obese. That's definitely better for your health!

    I said vigorous exercise( in middle age) is dangerous. I am surprised that anyone is even arguing with that.

    Spinning and stroke risks are just two prime examples. Rowing machines and heart attacks are equally relevant

    Even you seem know to be accepting the high risk factor associated with this, Whilst still it seems trying to defend spinning as a safe activity. If you accept there is a high heart attack risk, then you must surly accept the premise that its dangerous, even extremely dangerous with other factors

    Of course there is little data on stroke causation, People finish their spinning class and feel unwell, its only later that a stroke is diagnosed. No one is going back to see what they have been up to in the recent passed

    However, Sudden vigorous exercise/effort is recognize as a key factor in causing a stoke in the middle aged. It doesn't then matter if its brought on by running for a bus, carrying heavy shopping, push starting a car or using a spinning machine, all are high risk if you have other risk factors. Do you accept that basic premise?

    The andrew marr thing is a fudge. Being stress is one of the risk factors. BUT lots of people are stressed/work hard. If you accept that stress and spinning/rowing machines are high risk, then it follows that stressed people shouldn't use them ! Doesn't it ?

    Your last point is a Strawman argument. light moderate exercise is good, Excessive exercise is DANGEROUS for all. the problem is for a lot of people what is excessive for them, is not very much at all

    AND exercise is not an effective way of losing weight, It will take forever to lose say4/ 5 stone just using exercise. It needs significant life style changes as well.

    So people who are unfit/over weight should sort their life style/ diet out, accompanied by very light exercise. Then when they have lost the weight and lowered the risk factors, they can think about upping the effort level

    Gyms sell their services as weight loss system. when it really isn't. What should really happen is the person should be sent away and told to diet and come back next year and join the spin class, when the risk factors are much lower. Clearly that's not going to happen
  • diydiy Posts: 6,473
    edited December 2015
    I have a lot of friends who are PTs and instructors (e.g. this lovely lady : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8mvMLg_wDc), some are degree level qualified (like her). I also know a fair few who run spinning classes.

    Most gyms require REPS l2 or L3 as a minimum for a PT. for group exercises they'll need Exercise to Music L2, then if they want to teach indoor cycling they'll need an Indoor cycling instructor course or one of the branded one's like Les Mills RPM or Sprint.

    So they do have to do a fair bit of training.. But.. and its a BIG but. The vast majority of the instructors and teaching instructors are NON CYCLISTS. By that I mean apart from the odd charity ride, they do not ride a bike as part of their sport/training.

    Even those educated to degree level are general purpose Physical Trainers - their expertise is focused on muscle, skeletal, nutrition etc. There are very few who have specific cycling knowledge. Quite a few struggle with training to power, HR zones, can't easily explain what Vo2Max, LTP, FTP etc. are. These are not terms that come up regularly in their day to day training.

    Unless your spinning instructor is an experience cyclist and there probably are few, they wont know why you set your bike up differently, why you don't want to do core focus work, speed bumps, press ups etc and other pointless things that people come up with to do on a bike.

    Spinning has its benefit, but 90% of the classes are HIIT classes and you can't do HIIT all the time.

    PS this week I have done 3 spinning, 1 wattbike, 2 wieghts sessions, a bodypump class a grit strength classes and will do another 1 spinning, 1 wattbiek and a bodypump tomorrow. Its great fun but it does have limitations.
    PPS When I was concerned about my level of training due to my age (middle aged) I asked my doc if I needed to back off a bit (this after having angiograms and all sorts, due to a history of family heart attacks). I was told NO. carry on as you are.
  • [url][/url]I dunno.. I lost 4.5 stone in 5 months while still smoking pot and eating as much junk food as I wanted.

    Just cycled 75-125 miles a week. Lol.

    Edit: will say that not everyone would get same results.. Just my experience :)
  • njee20njee20 Posts: 9,613
    I'm giving up, Brian you're contradicting yourself within your own ramblings now. I'll leave you to it.
  • OP
    Besides that, is spinning actually any good in terms of building strength for MTB and are there any risks? Probably better than doing nothing on a rainy day..?

    Some people (roadies as well as MTBers) have an irrational dislike of spin which I find hard to understand.
    For me it's great winter training. But then I have a choice of very good 'indoor cycling' studios round where I live - one of which even has wattbikes, but is expensive. They all have HRMs, and the classes tend to be more orientated towards cyclists that your standard gym class.
    A two-hour class done properly probably equates to three hours on the road because you are non-stop, no freewheeling, no lights. They vary the intensity so it's not all HIIT, but obviously that is what is suits best, as being on an indoor bike for more than two hours is just a bit boring.
    50 minutes of high-intensity intervals on a spin bike is as knackering and as fitness-improving as most things you'll do on an actual bike - if they are done properly.
    If I was training seriously I would do this through the winter and then get some endurance miles in in the spring - sort of reverse of the traditional 'get the steady base miles in over the winter and then up the intensity / power training in the spring.
    But some people reckon it works just as well.
  • brianbeebrianbee Posts: 330
    edited December 2015
    [url][/url]I dunno.. I lost 4.5 stone in 5 months while still smoking pot and eating as much junk food as I wanted.

    Just cycled 75-125 miles a week. Lol.

    Edit: will say that not everyone would get same results.. Just my experience :)

    The pot (( nicotine( and the caffeine ?) probably help the weight loss, . taking speed would probably give better results, Heroin possibly better again, But like taking steroids is ''advantageous in muscle growth/performance it really isnt a sensible approach to improvising your Figure ????

    But my comments wernt intended to includes druggies, who have a tendency to look some what depleted physically (and mentally)
  • brianbeebrianbee Posts: 330
    I'm giving up, Brian you're contradicting yourself within your own ramblings now. I'll leave you to it.


    Im not contradicted myself at all. The basic point that spin( or any HIT) is extremely dangerous for the fat, old/unfit stands as a fact
  • [url][/url]I dunno.. I lost 4.5 stone in 5 months while still smoking pot and eating as much junk food as I wanted.

    Just cycled 75-125 miles a week. Lol.

    Edit: will say that not everyone would get same results.. Just my experience :)

    The pot (( nicotine( and the caffeine ?) probably help the weight loss, . taking speed would probably give better results, Heroin possibly better again, But like taking steroids is ''advantageous in muscle growth/performance it really isnt a sensible approach to improvising your Figure ????

    But my comments wernt intended to includes druggies, who have a tendency to look some what depleted physically (and mentally)


    Never smoked pot have you?

    Definitely not a weight loss aid... Unless riding around stoned being a lot of fun counts.

    I had all the weight sat there ready to lose in pure body fat and had previously been pretty fit from cycling, so was more a cas of getting back in shape than getting into shape for the first time.

    Only had to lose the weight I picked up by enjoying my travels round America and all of the 'all you can eat' establishments.

    While nicotine is an appetite surpressant the minimal amount I roll with wouldn't really help me any, and i'd been smoking that amount for the year or two previous anyway.
  • diydiy Posts: 6,473
    I'm in agreement with Brian, I think.. If you've had a life of bad diet, low exercise and are carrying a fair bit of flab, then the last thing you want to do is hop on a bike (spin or any kind) and start hammering out some HIIT sessions. What you want to do is take it slowly and build up over time. But even then, the effects of bad lifestyle on your heart and Vascular system are normally irreversible.

    Hitting Vo2Max, zone 5, red zone etc 90% of Max regularly and for a period of time isn't good and those who are older, training less 3 times a week, unfit or beginners should probably focus on developing at lower levels of intensity and increasing the frequency of training.
  • brianbeebrianbee Posts: 330
    [url][/url]I dunno.. I lost 4.5 stone in 5 months while still smoking pot and eating as much junk food as I wanted.

    Just cycled 75-125 miles a week. Lol.

    Edit: will say that not everyone would get same results.. Just my experience :)

    The pot (( nicotine( and the caffeine ?) probably help the weight loss, . taking speed would probably give better results, Heroin possibly better again, But like taking steroids is ''advantageous in muscle growth/performance it really isnt a sensible approach to improvising your Figure ????

    But my comments wernt intended to includes druggies, who have a tendency to look some what depleted physically (and mentally)


    Never smoked pot have you?

    Definitely not a weight loss aid... Unless riding around stoned being a lot of fun counts.

    I had all the weight sat there ready to lose in pure body fat and had previously been pretty fit from cycling, so was more a cas of getting back in shape than getting into shape for the first time.

    Only had to lose the weight I picked up by enjoying my travels round America and all of the 'all you can eat' establishments.

    While nicotine is an appetite surpressant the minimal amount I roll with wouldn't really help me any, and i'd been smoking that amount for the year or two previous anyway.

    Only once and I didnt inhale

    A quick calculation shows your are claiming to have lost a pound of fat for every 60 miles cycled, whilst stuffing yourself with kebabs and crisps. It doesnt sound that likely does it ?
  • I'm not arguing that it's a very unusual amount of weight loss.. Maybe subconsciously I was eating less due to trying to lose weight, who knows.

    I certainly wasn't aware of doing so.. My macdonalds orders were still along the lines of 3 chicken mayos 2 cheeseburgers and a large shake. I was still ordering mixed meat in naan from the chippy.. Maybe I was just snacking less between meals or something.
  • brianbeebrianbee Posts: 330
    I'm not arguing that it's a very unusual amount of weight loss.. Maybe subconsciously I was eating less due to trying to lose weight, who knows.

    I certainly wasn't aware of doing so.. My macdonalds orders were still along the lines of 3 chicken mayos 2 cheeseburgers and a large shake. I was still ordering mixed meat in naan from the chippy.. Maybe I was just snacking less between meals or something.

    Perhaps you picked up intestinal worms on you travels. They are very fond of MacyDs I hear
  • Not sure I'd have put so much weight back on when I had to get rid of my old bike if that was the case, lol

    I'm certainly having a harder time dropping it this time around.. But that may be as much due to time constraints these days.
  • diydiy Posts: 6,473
    Rapid weight loss with out a balanced macro nutrient diet and big muscle group weight training usually results in hard to reverse loss of lean muscle mass. So you BMR drops as a result meaning you require fewer calories to maintain your weight. Its partly why extreme dieters find it harder to hold their weight or get it off the next time.

    Building back lost lean muscle mass is very hard work, so better not to lose it to start.

    There are worse things to eat than Chicken nuggets
  • alasdairb1alasdairb1 Posts: 5
    I've found spinning helps ALOT on climbs (not so much downhill) as it gets the cardiovascular side of things going, for up to 45 mins or for harder sessions 90 mins. I worked my way up over a period of time where I was unable to ride my bike for real due to work (moved away from home and had no access to a bike for 12 weeks) and started at 30 min sessions, as i'd never spun before. After my course I would be faster on the ups (not overly technical ups mind you) and just a little slower on the way down. My spinning class leader would get us to move around the bike, which helped with downhill balance I found, which surprised me as it felt relatively pointless while doing it. Longer rides are a little harder now, but I get that back with every ride.

    I'd honestly say that if you're biking for fitness or commuting, spinning is the way forward, however for enjoyement I think there needs to be a lot of balancing done to get it right.
  • brianbee wrote:
    "You cant just dismiss the dangers spinning might cause"

    Be honest, how dangerous do you think spinning is?

    if your 35 plus, overweight and unfit, I would say trying to spin at a high rate for 45 mins or so, was extremely dangerous. If your 25 and super fit, then hardly at all. But then gym membership has a significant proportion of middle aged fat people who cant walk 2 miles with out stopping for a rest, trying to lose weight and they may well end up in a spinning class or similar high heart rate activity

    Well I'm over 35 , A little overweight and not the fittest man you'll ever find , but have been doing Spin class for around 2 years now , I'm still alive :wink: , and have never had any injury due to going to these classes

    And to answer the OP cycling shoes will help you I feel much better in them , Ian
  • fenixfenix Posts: 5,437
    I teach spin. I've done hundreds of classes and never had anyone keel over. To say that "if your 35 plus, overweight and unfit, I would say trying to spin at a high rate for 45 mins or so, was extremely dangerous" is bollox.

    I have very good cyclists and 80 yr olds in the same classes. People work to their own abilities.

    If you're unfit - you won't be able to go that hard for that long. Its the same as all exercise.
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