Looks like there might be some new 11spd road disc hubs out there?

daniel_b

EDIT: Two years on I have updated this post - added onto page 2 :-)

So as I have my first road bike with disc brakes being built, and also have a mountain bike with discs, it occurred to me that it might possibly be an opportunity to think about, or try and learn how to build a wheel.

The stock wheels are pretty heavy you see.

Is anyone able to shed any light on what tools are required - ie I assume a truing stand, and a spoke key?
If so, any recommendations?

And is there anything else required?

Then I assume I would just need:
Rims
Spokes
Nipples
Hubs
Freehub (Or do hubs come with the option of a freehub?)

I imagine rims and nipples and hubs are relatively generic, but would imagine the length of the spokes can be rather easy to get wrong?

Any suggested retailers to get these parts from - either UK or Germany, and would they take the time to guide you at all, or do they expect you to know exactly what you need?

What I mean, is if I said I wanted X rim with Y hub, would they then mind me asking if I need Z & A spokes, or T & U spokes.

Not ever having looked into it, is there a known list of recommended brands?

I'm a bit of a lightness freak (and am not too porky at 67kg), so if I am building wheels would be happy to err on the side of lightness as opposed to robustness - at least for the road bike.

paulbnix

I built my first wheels early this year.
I got a copy of Roger Musson's Wheel Building book. As a starter on wheel building it is very good though you would need to disregard some of his comments about spoke counts if you want really light wheels.

I made the lateral and radial trueness tools he describes and I used the cropped back end of a old hybrid as my trueing stand.

Barbarossa

Building wheels seems daunting at first, but it is surprisingly easy. You should be able to find everything out on the internet without splashing out on books.

Tools - as well as the truing stand and spoke-key, a tension gauge is helpful.

For spoke lengths, there is a calculator on the DT-Swiss website. You will need to know some dimensions of the hubs and rims.

Spokes - Sapim or DT-Swiss, lots of choice, you may want a heavier spoke on the rear than the front. Generally they come with nipples.

Rims - Verocity, DT-Swiss, Mavic, Ambrosio, H+Son.

In addition to your list, you will need rim tape.

Monty Dog

It's more about being methodical and doing things in a set-sequence than any special skill or technique - in time you learn how much of a tweak you need to apply with the spoke key to correct any trueness or adjust tension. You don't actually need a truing stand - a frame and forks mounted in a stand can be just as effective, but not as convenient - a small, adjustable square, or even cable ties can be used as guides. For component choices, Kinlin rims, ACI spokes and Novatec hubs are economic and durable and not heavy and will build some nice, strong wheels. Things to avoid are alloy nipples and super-skinny spokes like DT Revs - particularly is using discs.

hypster

I started building wheels about 3 years ago and since that time have built around 20 sets of wheels for myself, friends and family including a few sets for myself I rebuilt just for practice or exploring various rim/hub combinations.

There are quite a lot of points to cover from your original query but as a first step I would advise you to buy Roger Musson's ebook "The Professional Guide to Wheel Building". That's how I self-taught myself and there is everything in there that you need to get started including plans for building your own wheel building jig and dishing tool. Also, plenty of advice about what tools you do or do not need to start wheel building.

veronese68

If, like me, you are tone deaf there is a spoke tensioner app that measures the pitch of the spokes so you can ensure you have even tensions. I'd been going round in circles until I got that.

rolf_f

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19730134#p19730134]Veronese68[/url] wrote:

If, like me, you are tone deaf there is a spoke tensioner app that measures the pitch of the spokes so you can ensure you have even tensions. I'd been going round in circles until I got that.

Surely if you'd been going round in circles you wouldn't have needed the pitch app? (ba'dum-tish!)

daniel_b

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19730155#p19730155]Rolf F[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19730134#p19730134]Veronese68[/url] wrote:

If, like me, you are tone deaf there is a spoke tensioner app that measures the pitch of the spokes so you can ensure you have even tensions. I'd been going round in circles until I got that.

Surely if you'd been going round in circles you wouldn't have needed the pitch app? (ba'dum-tish!)

Thankyou all for those helpful replies, plenty for me to go away and investigate

arlowood

Just remember that you are building disc wheels which traditionally need to be relatively robust to withstand the forces generated through the disc braking process (particularly the front wheel).

For that reason you are unlikely to be successful if you adopt an extreme weight weenie approach to spoke counts and spoke patterns.

Maybe 20 but more likely 24 is the minimum spoke count you will get away with and still build a robust wheel.

Have a look around and what is being offered by the wheel builders to get an idea of what weights are poissible by judicious choice of rim and spoke combined with hub selection.

veronese68

I would think Malcolm at Cycle Clinic would be happy to supply parts and assist with compatability.

cycleclinic

It depends on what you mean by pretty heavy. 1600-1800g is pretty normal for something robust depending on spoke count and rims/hubs used.

step83

Coming from mountain biking where discs have been around a while I would certainly not go below a 20 count up front.

Tool wise a truing stand. spoke keys, nipple driver, spoke tension gauge and a dishing tool is all I use

Spoke length yes as said the DT tool is great to use so long as you know the flange and ERD your away.

In terms of parts research is pretty much key. Think what youll be using it for, sprints. training, sportifs etc.

I know you want to try super super light but what I would try first is to build a decent wheel aim to be a bit lighter than your current. Winters coming and you can happily fettle and road test a wheel and hone your building skills so you can make a lighter set for summer. Plus a good winter wheel is always a bonus to have.

Also you can get very tarty with custom wheels one thing I generally do is use a different colour nipple either side of the valve makes it a bit easier to spot I have a pack of red anodised ones just for that.

daniel_b

Could anyone tell me if these Halo Aerotrack road rims would be possible to build into a pair of wheels for disc brake wheels?

I am assuming that the disc brake compatibility is purely down the choice of hub?

They are 32 hole, so I thought a bit more sturdy for a winter bike.
I was after the yellow rim, with black spokes and hub.

The ERD is 585.

http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/24074/Halo_Aerotrack_Road_Rim

hypster

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19732862#p19732862]Daniel B[/url] wrote:

Could anyone tell me if these Halo Aerotrack road rims would be possible to build into a pair of wheels for disc brake wheels?

I am assuming that the disc brake compatibility is purely down the choice of hub?

They are 32 hole, so I thought a bit more sturdy for a winter bike.
I was after the yellow rim, with black spokes and hub.

The ERD is 585.

http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/24074/Halo_Aerotrack_Road_Rim

They would be fine. With 32 spokes I would recommend building them in a 3-cross lacing pattern which would give adequate bracing for use with discs.

daniel_b

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19732886#p19732886]hypster[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19732862#p19732862]Daniel B[/url] wrote:

Could anyone tell me if these Halo Aerotrack road rims would be possible to build into a pair of wheels for disc brake wheels?

I am assuming that the disc brake compatibility is purely down the choice of hub?

They are 32 hole, so I thought a bit more sturdy for a winter bike.
I was after the yellow rim, with black spokes and hub.

The ERD is 585.

http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/24074/Halo_Aerotrack_Road_Rim

They would be fine. With 32 spokes I would recommend building them in a 3-cross lacing pattern which would give adequate bracing for use with discs.

Awesome, thankyou! I've just found them for £19.99 each!

hypster

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19732894#p19732894]Daniel B[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19732886#p19732886]hypster[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19732862#p19732862]Daniel B[/url] wrote:

Could anyone tell me if these Halo Aerotrack road rims would be possible to build into a pair of wheels for disc brake wheels?

I am assuming that the disc brake compatibility is purely down the choice of hub?

They are 32 hole, so I thought a bit more sturdy for a winter bike.
I was after the yellow rim, with black spokes and hub.

The ERD is 585.

http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/24074/Halo_Aerotrack_Road_Rim

They would be fine. With 32 spokes I would recommend building them in a 3-cross lacing pattern which would give adequate bracing for use with discs.

Awesome, thankyou! I've just found them for £19.99 each!

Cycle Basket are a good source for black ACI Alpina spokes I have found. One strange thing though is they come complete with silver brass nipples. They also do black brass nipples and when I phoned them up they included the black ones in the order as well as the silver! I can't work out why they just don't supply black nipples with the black spokes.

http://www.cyclebasket.com/m9b0s453p0/Components_/Spokes_-_Stainless_Steel_BLACK_Double_Butted_

SDeals are good for wheel parts as well.

http://www.sdeals.com/

Let us know what disc hubs you are considering and we should be able to offer an opinion/advice. i.e. what are your axle options on your bike?

keezx

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19732862#p19732862]Daniel B[/url] wrote:

Could anyone tell me if these Halo Aerotrack road rims would be possible to build into a pair of wheels for disc brake wheels?

I am assuming that the disc brake compatibility is purely down the choice of hub?

They are 32 hole, so I thought a bit more sturdy for a winter bike.
I was after the yellow rim, with black spokes and hub.

The ERD is 585.

http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/24074/Halo_Aerotrack_Road_Rim

No problem, but you should be aware that these rims are old fashioned 19 mm narrow ones, so likely 13 mm internal.
For a winterbike 25 mm are more interesting than 23 mm but I wouldn't put these on 13 C rims anymore.
Prefer riding qualities over fancy colors.....

daniel_b

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19732919#p19732919]Keezx[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19732862#p19732862]Daniel B[/url] wrote:

Could anyone tell me if these Halo Aerotrack road rims would be possible to build into a pair of wheels for disc brake wheels?

I am assuming that the disc brake compatibility is purely down the choice of hub?

They are 32 hole, so I thought a bit more sturdy for a winter bike.
I was after the yellow rim, with black spokes and hub.

The ERD is 585.

http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/24074/Halo_Aerotrack_Road_Rim

No problem, but you should be aware that these rims are old fashioned 19 mm narrow ones, so likely 13 mm internal.
For a winterbike 25 mm are more interesting than 23 mm but I wouldn't put these on 13 C rims anymore.
Prefer riding qualities over fancy colors.....

Thanks for the heads up - tbh up until this year I had ridden 23's and didn't notice a lot of difference with 25's in terms of comfort, maybe because I am 67kg, not sure if that makes a difference.

I like riding qualities too, but I also like my colour combos, and with having a dark green bike, I can't resist the option of yellowing it up ;-)

bobones

+1 on cyclebasket.com for spokes. 21p for ACI silver double butted or 40p for black. I also got a pair of 32h 5800 hubs in silver from them and the owner, Martin, was a pleasure to deal with and gave me some good advice.

I've just finished building the wheels and the tools I used were:
oil (for nipple threads and eyelets), cotton bud (to apply oil to eyelets), nipple driver (basically a long flat blade screw bit ground down with a 3mm point using a dremmel), Spokey spoke wrench, truing stand (cheap Tacx one).

I used a bit like this to make the nipple driver and just twirled it between my fingers.

daniel_b

Thanks for those replies gents, very much appreciated - so cyclebasket looks like it might be the main protagonist for me then.

Out of interest I assume as I need a hub that will take a disc, that I need an MTB hub such as these ones?
http://www.cyclebasket.com/m9b0s408p0/Components_/Hubs_-_ATB_Front_Disc_

hypster

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19733164#p19733164]Daniel B[/url] wrote:

Thanks for those replies gents, very much appreciated - so cyclebasket looks like it might be the main protagonist for me then.

Out of interest I assume as I need a hub that will take a disc, that I need an MTB hub such as these ones?
http://www.cyclebasket.com/m9b0s408p0/Components_/Hubs_-_ATB_Front_Disc_

Where hubs are concerned you need to check:-

1. The freehub is compatible with the number of speeds you have on your bike and that it's compatible with your gear manufacturer.
2. The hubs front and rear have the right clamping system and width for your forks and frame
3. The disc rotors you are/will be using are bolt on or centre lock
4. The hub has the right number of spoke holes for the rims you propose

daniel_b

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19733176#p19733176]hypster[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19733164#p19733164]Daniel B[/url] wrote:

Thanks for those replies gents, very much appreciated - so cyclebasket looks like it might be the main protagonist for me then.

Out of interest I assume as I need a hub that will take a disc, that I need an MTB hub such as these ones?
http://www.cyclebasket.com/m9b0s408p0/Components_/Hubs_-_ATB_Front_Disc_

Where hubs are concerned you need to check:-

1. The freehub is compatible with the number of speeds you have on your bike and that it's compatible with your gear manufacturer.
2. The hubs front and rear have the right clamping system and width for your forks and frame
3. The disc rotors you are/will be using are bolt on or centre lock
4. The hub has the right number of spoke holes for the rims you propose

I think this is my main obstacle, looks like all of the cheapy options, Deore XT etc, are for 9/10 spds, nothing out there in that kind of price range for 11spd, so looks like I will have to squirrel the rims away, and wait for some mass produced stuff to come out in the next year or so.

Additionally as the wheels that came with my bike are worth naff all second hand, have decided I can run 25mm Durano Pluses on them during the winter months, and then run the yellow ones in the spring and summer with Pro 4 endurance tyres on, for a bit more fun on training rides - just a case of swapping the disc across I guess.

hypster

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19733448#p19733448]Daniel B[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19733176#p19733176]hypster[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19733164#p19733164]Daniel B[/url] wrote:

Thanks for those replies gents, very much appreciated - so cyclebasket looks like it might be the main protagonist for me then.

Out of interest I assume as I need a hub that will take a disc, that I need an MTB hub such as these ones?
http://www.cyclebasket.com/m9b0s408p0/Components_/Hubs_-_ATB_Front_Disc_

Where hubs are concerned you need to check:-

1. The freehub is compatible with the number of speeds you have on your bike and that it's compatible with your gear manufacturer.
2. The hubs front and rear have the right clamping system and width for your forks and frame
3. The disc rotors you are/will be using are bolt on or centre lock
4. The hub has the right number of spoke holes for the rims you propose

I think this is my main obstacle, looks like all of the cheapy options, Deore XT etc, are for 9/10 spds, nothing out there in that kind of price range for 11spd, so looks like I will have to squirrel the rims away, and wait for some mass produced stuff to come out in the next year or so.

Additionally as the wheels that came with my bike are worth naff all second hand, have decided I can run 25mm Durano Pluses on them during the winter months, and then run the yellow ones in the spring and summer with Pro 4 endurance tyres on, for a bit more fun on training rides - just a case of swapping the disc across I guess.

I just built some wheels using Novatec D771SB/D772SB hubs which were very cheap on eBay and although they are 10-speed, they can be upgraded to an 11-speed freehub body. I didn't buy mine there but I believe Malcolm at The Cycle Clinic might be able to help you out or at least advise.

http://thecycleclinic.co.uk/

daniel_b

Guys,

would this hub be of any good to build up the front Halo rim.........?

They are 32 hole, I know that much.........

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00KL6XBSQ/?tag=bikebargains-21

Or as an aside, has anyone seen any reasonably prices 32 hole disc brake hubs that would allow me to fit these to a road bike?

Wheelspinner

Front hubs are easier than back to pick since both MTB and roadies use a standard 100 mm width (in QR versions) for the most part. The downhill specific ones with a 20 mm through axle are wider but any QR front hub will be usable on either road or MTB frames. That Deore one is ok, would be used typically on disc hybrids or MTB's. It has Centrelock disc mount which is slightly limiting for teh range of discs you can get but not a big problem.

The rear hub is more awkward, since for a road frame you will generally need a 130mm spacing one, and MTB hubs are all 135 (for QR types) or more for the other "standards". In addition, road 11 speed cassettes require a different freehub for Shimano to 10 speed, although annoyingly they made MTB 11 speed fit the same hubs as their 9/10 speed ones... go figure..

They're available, just not as plentiful or cheap as the fronts!

veronese68

Virtually all disc QR rears are 135mm as that is the standard so MTB rear hubs should be ok. I am running Novatec 771/772 hubs on my Kinesis which are same as MTB. I know early Volagis were 130mm but have now gone 135mm, Specialized have a frame with a wierd rear hub too.

thepeginator

Veronese68 wrote:

Virtually all disc QR rears are 135mm as that is the standard so MTB rear hubs should be ok. I am running Novatec 771/772 hubs on my Kinesis which are same as MTB. I know early Volagis were 130mm but have now gone 135mm, Specialized have a frame with a wierd rear hub too.

*providing you only need 10 speed, or the freehub can be swapped. MTB hubs wont fit road 11 speed AFAIK.

veronese68

thepeginator wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

Virtually all disc QR rears are 135mm as that is the standard so MTB rear hubs should be ok. I am running Novatec 771/772 hubs on my Kinesis which are same as MTB. I know early Volagis were 130mm but have now gone 135mm, Specialized have a frame with a wierd rear hub too.

*providing you only need 10 speed, or the freehub can be swapped. MTB hubs wont fit road 11 speed AFAIK.

I think you're right, MTB 11 speed is like road 10speed I believe. Anyway I got the numbers wrong. 771/772 fit road 11 speed and come with a spacer for 10 speed, the 711/712 are 10 speed as standard. I have a set of each and forgot which was which.

Wheelspinner

Veronese68 wrote:

Virtually all disc QR rears are 135mm as that is the standard so MTB rear hubs should be ok. I am running Novatec 771/772 hubs on my Kinesis which are same as MTB. I know early Volagis were 130mm but have now gone 135mm, Specialized have a frame with a wierd rear hub too.

Ah my bad then. I've seen road disc hubs noted as 130mm and assumed they all were, not having used a road disc frame. Bit surprising the industry had an attack of the sensibles in this case and used the same on road and MTB for once!

Dan B... this one looks a decent deal
https://www.evanscycles.com/en-au/shimano-rs505-road-11-speed-disc-hub-EV253044

onyourright

If you wish to understand how a wire-spoked wheel works – and it’s neither intuitive nor very simple – I think you should read Jobst Brandt’s book, The Bicycle Wheel. You’ll build much better wheels for it.

This book is a shining example of how to describe a technical subject. The language used is sparse and elegant and remarkably clear. It’s a pure pleasure to read.

Andre Jute’s review, here, captures its brilliance well.

daniel_b

Morning all,

thought I would resurrect this thread (Modified the title slightly too), as the rims are still sat in my garage roof, but I do now have a stand to use and a quick scan online would seem to turn up some more reasonably priced options.

What do you reckon to this rear hub?
https://www.evanscycles.com/shimano-xt-m8000-9x135mm-rear-hub-EV249142

If I wanted to go cheaper, any others I should consider?

I notice on this thread, and on other sites I have seen it mentioned that MTB disc hubs are not compatible with 11spd road, which is what I have, so assume my market is still reasonably narrow.

Which does confuse me a bit, as the one I link to above is XT, which is MTB, so............ :?

Oh and I NEED 32 hole rims, which the XT one is.