Left Knee Problem, WTF?

Gav888

Hi guys,

Got one that I can't work out so hoping you can offer some advice...

So it all started Winter last year, I was using my winter bike as usual (have been for the last 5 winters) and I was slowly building up the miles as usual and all things seemed ok until around January this year when I started developing a left knee ache, it got quite bad at times and took 4 or 5 days off the bike to stop aching, I put it down to too many miles too soon, Winter was much better this year than previous years, I just wanted to get the miles in, so I just put it down to overuse, then Spring came around and I went back to my Summer bike and the knee injury went away, happy days, until last night, I did a very light spin on the Winter bike, just for an hour, as prep for the shitty weather as im going to start using it now, Summer bike is dry weather only... But the left knee ache came straight back, within 10 minutes... Even this morning after doing that light ride its still aching quite a bit!

WTF... My winter bike is virtually identical fit wise to my summer bike, same saddle height, setback and even the saddle is the same, I really dont want to be using my expensive summer bike all winter...

Any idea. Cleats haven't moves, same pedals, the only thing that I couldn't tweak is the crank arms, they are 172 on the Summer bike and 172.5 on the Winter bike, surely it can't be that? I have used the Winter bike for years without any issues because it used to be my only bike and I was doing a lot of miles on it without any issues?

The bike hasnt been damaged either, so nothing is twisted etc?

Cheers in advance.

mr.b-campag

If the bike hasn't changed perhaps you have? Any reasons to think you might be less flexible than in previous years? Has your stretching regime changed for instance?

kajjal

You could try doing a bike fit from scratch on your winter bike ignoring your summer bike. That way you won't miss anything and go by what feels right. Last time i had real knee pain my saddle was too high causing me to over stretch.

Since i got over 40 i have to keep my knees warmer in colder weather or they can ache a little. Nothing major but no problems at all if i keep them warm.

Gav888

If anything I am more flexible now, I had a professional bike fit done in April on the summer bike with a stretching routine to go with it, ive been doing it since, the fit that was done on the Summer bike and the fit has been replicated onto the Winter bike, saddle height is exactly the same, but it was also set the same height over winter, no changes there, fore and aft again virtually identical but now tweaked so it is exactly the same, the Summer bike has been fine since using it from April, I cant see the saddle position being the problem, I wasnt sure if q factor might come into it, saying that, why then only the left side as well... I am slightly less flexible on the left than the right, and the fitter said I sit a little scewed, but its no as bad as it was, but it hasnt caused any issues on the summer bike, or even on my MTB that I have used a lot this summer, just this 1 bike and only my left knee, but to me, the saddle position is identical from winter to summer bikes...

Maybe as Kajjal said, have a play with the winter bike fit seperately and dont replicate the fit??

olake92

Perhaps your saddle has sagged. I change my saddle every couple of months because my precious bottom can't handle it suddenly having a variable height. It can account for a good couple of mm in saddle height.

sungod

knee pain where? front/back/inside/outside/etc.

you mention that the fitter said you were sitting skewed, so the question is why, if there's body asymmetry it may be worth seeing what the effect is and whether correction may help - shims/wedges/insoles for instance - which requires expertise to get right

i had an issue with intermittent knee problems over a few years, eventually saw a physio who specialized in cycling, couple of iterations to get things right, and no recurrence for 2-3 years now

mrwibble

I wouldn't be looking at equipment if everything is identical, you could have tight quads in your legs. Go get a sports massage and ask them to concentrate on your legs especially Vastus Lateralis.

cheschcat

Q-factor, I have the same issue with my right knee if I don't use the correct width... my left seems to tolerate whatever width I use where as my right has a hissy fit even if its a mm too narrow. Check the stance width on the summer bike and replicate on the winter bike.

Gav888

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19724025#p19724025]sungod[/url] wrote:

knee pain where? front/back/inside/outside/etc.

you mention that the fitter said you were sitting skewed, so the question is why, if there's body asymmetry it may be worth seeing what the effect is and whether correction may help - shims/wedges/insoles for instance - which requires expertise to get right

i had an issue with intermittent knee problems over a few years, eventually saw a physio who specialized in cycling, couple of iterations to get things right, and no recurrence for 2-3 years now

Knee pain is on the centre of the knee, under the knee cap it feels. I was thinking last night that it might be a twisting issue if that makes sense. My summer bike has an area seat post so the saddle is perfectly aligned but the winter isn't. So maybe I am slightly screwed?

Checking my fit report my left knee is about 1cm in front of my right, tight hips he said, but it's not caused any issues on my summer bike.

I was firstly going to try flat pedals and normal shoes and see if that makes any difference, ie is it the cleats... Shouldn't be as it's the same shoes and pedals as per the summer bike.

If that doesn't work tweak the saddle until it feels ok on the knee, fore/aft/up/down/left/right. I remember when I had the fit done how saddle height affected foot angle, I think it was the higher I went the more my heels went out, the lower the more they came into the frame, so maybe it's a small adjustment in height only,

Saddle is a new one, the same on both bikes.

RichiePortly

I had a similar issue when I switched to MTB SPDs for my main bike - I'd forgotten to put insoles in that I used on the road shoes.

After a fit, I also had two washers put on my left pedal axle as well as the insoles to level things up. Perfect ever since.

sungod

guide to knee pain and possible causes/solutions

http://www.cptips.com/knee.htm

easy thing to check is if your knees track in a vertical plane parallel to the front-rear axis of the bike, if one/both wobble in-out it's something to investigate (most do though some may need, say, foot angle to be adjusted to keep knees in-line, and some people just pedal this way as it's the best for their body)

if the cause is asymmetry and/or other physical variation, over-pronation for instance, you may not be able to resolve it by adjusting the bike

if both bikes have got the same saddle, with a plumb line and ruler you should be able to set the same saddle position wrt the bb axis, then you can see if there's any big difference in bar position wrt to saddle

are crank lengths the same on both? usually makes little difference, though saddle height would need adjusting slightly to get the same maximum extension

birdy247

What bottom bracket are you running on the winter and summer bike? Same goes for cranks??

Bill Black

Based on your below description, it sounds like condromalacia of the patella (roughening/irritation of cartilage on the back of the kneecap). Usually this results from a slight misalignment of the tracking of the kneecap during knee flexion. The suggestions re QF could well be the cause and often a strength imbalance between vastus medialis and vastus lateralis cause the kneecap to twist sideways a bit during knee flexion and that sets off the problem.
Bill Black


Knee pain is on the centre of the knee, under the knee cap it feels. I was thinking last night that it might be a twisting issue if that makes sense. My summer bike has an area seat post so the saddle is perfectly aligned but the winter isn't. So maybe I am slightly screwed?

Checking my fit report my left knee is about 1cm in front of my right, tight hips he said, but it's not caused any issues on my summer bike.

I was firstly going to try flat pedals and normal shoes and see if that makes any difference, ie is it the cleats... Shouldn't be as it's the same shoes and pedals as per the summer bike.

If that doesn't work tweak the saddle until it feels ok on the knee, fore/aft/up/down/left/right. I remember when I had the fit done how saddle height affected foot angle, I think it was the higher I went the more my heels went out, the lower the more they came into the frame, so maybe it's a small adjustment in height only,

Saddle is a new one, the same on both bikes.