Why do people queue for miles rather than filter
Flâneur
Posts: 3,081
Comments
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Regarding road works, where a lane will merge.
Well why do people think I know I'll queue up causing congestion further back rather than filtering/allowing people to filter and keep it a smooth process.
Because they seem to think it's 'pushing in' and would rather sit in one long queue, usually hugging the bumper of the car in front so nobody can join their lane. There's a bypass near me that is two lanes coming off a roundabout, these merge into one lane around half a mile up the road. At rush hours there will be traffic all the way down the inside lane and all the way around the roundabout, complete blocking it. The only cars in the outside lane will be the odd person with some common sense, whereas if the two lanes were of equal length and everyone merged in turn it would leave the roundabout clear.0 -
What Rob said. I was once driving in to Norwich on a dual carriageway. There was a queue in the left hand lane that started by a sign saying there was a slip road in 1 mile. I thought people were queuing fro the slip road so carried on in the right hand lane. Passed the junction and realised they weren't. They were queuing to get into town. Lanes merged about 3 miles from where the queue started, I was the only one in the right hand lane. At the end predictably nobody would let me in so I just made a space, the car behind me then tried to pull around me and sat to my right. The road became single carriageway and he just sat to my right, on the wrong side of the road. Eventually the car in front of me stopped to let him pull in front of it. More than a little odd to say the least.0
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It's the British mentality when it comes to a queue. We're genetically hard-wired to queue in a single line, and anyone suspected of queue jumping is despised, and under no circumstances allowed in, even if it means ramming the car in front to exclude the bounder.
Unless there's a sign specifically telling us to use both lanes and merge in turn, in which case, common sense seems to break out.0 -
Yup the most efficient use of road space is for everyone to queue in both lanes and then merge in turn at the obstruction. The key point being that there should be *one* merge point, not multiple ones and the most convenient place for the merge point is at the obstruction itself.
But what happens now is that people either join the back of the queue, or go part way down the queue and chicken out from the 'queue jumping' and then merge half way. Myself I usually drive all the way to the merge point and then merge, rarely have issues but it has caused flashing lights and shaken fists.0 -
All it needs is a "use both lanes" "merge in turn" sign and job done. We like to queue but we like to obey signs as well.You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.0 -
I've been astonished at the level of driving recently, for this exact reason. I ride a motorbike normally, so don't have as much of an issue, but a lot of people in cars have no idea how things work on the open road. Common sense is failing society at the moment.0
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All it needs is a "use both lanes" "merge in turn" sign and job done. We like to queue but we like to obey signs as well.
We absolutely do not need yet another fucking road sign!!! What we need is proper driver education and a degree of common sense.Trail fun - Transition Bandit
Road - Wilier Izoard Centaur/Cube Agree C62 Disc
Allround - Cotic Solaris0 -
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At a recent rugby match most of the fans walking down one road towards the stadium.
There was a line of @ 10 gates to enter.
The first gate had a queue of around 30.
The second gate had a queue of around 10.
The third gate had a couple.
All the other gates were empty.
The British are mad.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
At a recent rugby match most of the fans walking down one road towards the stadium.
There was a line of @ 10 gates to enter.
The first gate had a queue of around 30.
The second gate had a queue of around 10.
The third gate had a couple.
All the other gates were empty.
The British are mad.
Completely agree. WTF were they doing at a Rugby match?
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Even when you do have signs like going into the Metro Centre which clearly say "USE BOTH LANES", people still queue in one lane, because eventually you have to go down to one lane and people fear not being let in or being seen as a queue jumper.0
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Probably the best way to do this is the way lorries do it. I have done so in a car but it does require some nerve - that is sit in the outside lane but move at the same speed as the lane to the left. That way, you are not pushing in, you are stopping others from hurtling to the front and pushing in but, more importantly, hopefully you will cause a queue in the outside lane to build up behind you. That way, by the time you get to the point where the lanes merge, you will have moved the actual merge point along with you.Faster than a tent.......0
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you are stopping others from hurtling to the front and pushing in
Which is stupid, selfish and dangerous, and I would hope anyone trying such a bonehead move would get pulled off the road by the police for their own safety.
Hardly any better than those who try to be a self appointed traffic police by straddling both lanes attempting to stop people overtaking in the other lane. Such people have their licence immediately removed until they undergo further training.0 -
you are stopping others from hurtling to the front and pushing in
Which is stupid, selfish and dangerous, and I would hope anyone trying such a bonehead move would get pulled off the road by the police for their own safety.
Hardly any better than those who try to be a self appointed traffic police by straddling both lanes attempting to stop people overtaking in the other lane. Such people have their licence immediately removed until they undergo further training.
The people who are selfish are those who fly down the outside lane and interrupt the flow of traffic when they push in at the restriction. I am a supporter of the lorry drivers and motorists with the bottle to stop the outside lane.0 -
Even when you do have signs like going into the Metro Centre which clearly say "USE BOTH LANES", people still queue in one lane, because eventually you have to go down to one lane and people fear not being let in or being seen as a queue jumper.you are stopping others from hurtling to the front and pushing in
Which is stupid, selfish and dangerous, and I would hope anyone trying such a bonehead move would get pulled off the road by the police for their own safety.
Hardly any better than those who try to be a self appointed traffic police by straddling both lanes attempting to stop people overtaking in the other lane. Such people have their licence immediately removed until they undergo further training.
The people who are selfish are those who fly down the outside lane and interrupt the flow of traffic when they push in at the restriction. I am a supporter of the lorry drivers and motorists with the bottle to stop the outside lane.
Even in the situation outlined above?
The single lane backs up to the next junction causing gridlock just because some people do not want to be seen as queue jumpers, even when it is fit and proper to do so.
Mad.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
This is what the highway code says.
Rule 288
When the ‘Road Works Ahead’ sign is displayed, you will need to be more watchful and look for additional signs providing more specific instructions. Observe all signs - they are there for your safety and the safety of road workers.
You MUST NOT exceed any temporary maximum speed limit.
Use your mirrors and get into the correct lane for your vehicle in good time and as signs direct.
Do not switch lanes to overtake queuing traffic.
Take extra care near cyclists and motorcyclists as they are vulnerable to skidding on grit, mud or other debris at road works.
Where lanes are restricted due to road works, merge in turn (see Rule 134).
Do not drive through an area marked off by traffic cones.
Watch out for traffic entering or leaving the works area, but do not be distracted by what is going on there. Concentrate on the road ahead, not the road works.
Bear in mind that the road ahead may be obstructed by the works or by slow moving or stationary traffic.
Keep a safe distance - there could be queues in front.0 -
The real problem are the people who merge at random places in the queue. If everyone joined the back, the queue would move quickly as there'd be nothing slowing it down and if everyone merged in turn at the filter then you maximise road space and still move fairly quickly but when you get people trying to get in a various points you get the worse of both worlds plus people reluctant to let more than one person in front of them.0
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you are stopping others from hurtling to the front and pushing in
Which is stupid, selfish and dangerous, and I would hope anyone trying such a bonehead move would get pulled off the road by the police for their own safety.
Hardly any better than those who try to be a self appointed traffic police by straddling both lanes attempting to stop people overtaking in the other lane. Such people have their licence immediately removed until they undergo further training.
The people who are selfish are those who fly down the outside lane and interrupt the flow of traffic when they push in at the restriction. I am a supporter of the lorry drivers and motorists with the bottle to stop the outside lane.
Never understood that mentality, they are preventing drivers from filtering correctly, cause fustration and you must remember these drivers are not traffic police and they ve neither the training or authority to do so, i ve seen drivers pulled by traffic cops for doing this, you never know who is a few vehicles back
and lets face it, Lorry drivers are far more likely to involved in an accident then other road users, so are hardly in a positon to lecture others on road safety0 -
you are stopping others from hurtling to the front and pushing in
Which is stupid, selfish and dangerous, and I would hope anyone trying such a bonehead move would get pulled off the road by the police for their own safety.
Hardly any better than those who try to be a self appointed traffic police by straddling both lanes attempting to stop people overtaking in the other lane. Such people have their licence immediately removed until they undergo further training.
A very stupid comment on your part surely unless I am much mistaken. Please tell me what is dangerous about travelling at the same speed as the traffic in the adjacent lane. Please tell me what is selfish about it.
It is perhaps ironic that you are complaining about the selfishness of others when presumably your concern is that they are stopping you from barging up to the front. Note that I'm not condoning those that as soon as they see a sign telling them of a lane closure in four miles immediately move to the left hand lane. The dangerous situation is where you have people in the left hand lane queuing at 40mph and people in the right still doing 70+.
Honestly, I really didn't think you were that thick but you live and learn!Faster than a tent.......0 -
Never understood that mentality, they are preventing drivers from filtering correctly,
Yes - but only temporarily; most people aren't filtering correctly anyway which is the problem. What it does is move the merge point to where it should be (ie where the lane closure actually is). It's potentially irritating while it happens but it isn't holding anyone up any more than they would have been had the merging been occuring properly in the first place. The only reason to get frustrated is if you want to take advantage of the incompetence of our merging skills to push to the front!
Probably a lot of the time when you get to a lane closure and people are actually waiting til the end to merge is because some lorry driver slowed the right hand lane down half an hour ago and everyone has been benefitting from it unknowingly ever since.Faster than a tent.......0 -
I would have thought cyclists of all people would know drivers enforcing traffic rules they've made up themselves is never a good idea.
At roadworks people aren't 'barging past' they are simply using the road space which is available before merging.0 -
I would have thought cyclists of all people would know drivers enforcing traffic rules they've made up themselves is never a good idea.
At roadworks people aren't 'barging past' they are simply using the road space which is available before merging.
Which, as has been pointed out before, can cause problems further back - eg obstructing previous junctions. Shortening the length of the queue is surely a good thing?
And who said anything about 'enforcing rules'? I didn't. But in this circumstance, I still don't understand what is the real problem here. We've probably benefitted from this practice in the past but I doubt we've really lost out from it.
It's a bit like how car drivers get annoyed by being stuck briefly behind cyclists. They perceive that they are being held up yet are never conscious that because a cyclist is briefly holding them up, a car further down the road is benefitting by being able to pull out a little earlier which is a benefit they themselves will have gained in the past. You see the cause of the negative impact but you don't see the cause of the positive impact.Faster than a tent.......0 -
In the Nethelands it's the law to do this properly.
"Zipping " they call it (to translate).
I Holland I would of thought 'zipping' refers to something completely different
"Arran, you are like the Tony Benn of smut. You have never diluted your depravity and always stand by your beliefs. You have my respect sir and your wife my pity"
seanoconn0 -
You've absolutely no chance of resolving this on the internet because road designers have actually taken to encouraging the long single lane queue.
M6 North jct 32 for M55 and Preston north.
Previously a 4 lane motorway. Left two lanes exit for M55/Preston. Right hand two lanes for M6 north.
Natural bottleneck at Preston North frequently backed up the left two lanes. Only ever in exceptional circumstances would the right two lanes queue. The one other problem with the old road design was it could be difficult for slower traffic continuing north to get across two lanes.
Major roadworks in 2014 saw them improve the roundabout that caused the bottleneck and then they started on the motorway itself. Great I thought, they're widening the road. The logical thing would have been to squeeze 3 lanes in on the M55 turn off so two queued for the roundabout and one for those continuing on M55 with two remaining in place for M6 North.
No such luck, the M6 north which never backed up with two lanes of traffic is now an uninterupted 3 lanes of traffic and the queue for the M55 turn off is down to a single lane until the last 1/4 mile where the road has been widened. It's truly appalling road design. The single lane queue now goes back past the prior junction and causes significant clusters of traffic for a good 5 miles prior. The filtering in is absolute carnage and bloomin dangerous as people do slow to a standstill in the Northbound lanes to cut in to the turning lanes.
Yes that is bad driving but it's encouraged by appalling road design.0 -
Took me some years to persuade my missus that I wasnt being rude and arrogant by continuing down the empty lane and merging at the merge point - I kept pointing out that if they wanted us to merge a mile earlier then they would have put the merge point back there, and by queueing in a single lane the queue is twice as long as necessary and often blocks up roundabouts and sideroads that should not be thus impeding people wanting to turn on/off that would otherwise be unaffected by the lane closure. Eventually she does now get it, but she still merges early because she is a slightly nervous driver and worries about being able to get in because people who have queued in the single lane make it difficult sometimes.0
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Happened to me between Yeovil and Ilchester on a piece of dual carriageway a few weeks ago now. Cars in outside line going no where and queuing up and cars in front of me then start swappingfrom near side to outside lane.
I continue up nearside lane which is now empty, not driving quickly maybe 25/30 mph, and get loads of abuse from people siting in the queue. My view is both lanes are currently in use up to the road works so why shouldn't I/other people use both lanes then filter in.0 -
The view is slightly different if you're queuing for an exit, rather than a lane closure, IMO.0
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If you take the view that you we should all queue in one long line, how do we explain that to the children when they go for driving lessons? "Dad, why did they invent the 'Merge in turn' sign if you have made us sit in long lines of traffic for all these years? And what about the 'Merge ahead' signs, do they not mean use both lanes until you are told to move in or reach the roadworks? My instructor showed me rules 134 and 288 of the Highway Code about merging in turn and he said that the Advanced Motorists book Roadcraft tells us to merge on page 161. I told him you always just sit at the back of all the other cars and get really angry. The instructor then mentioned the Governments Traffic Signs manual which advises how to properly set up approaches to road works using the 'Merge in Turn' signs. He also said that he has never read in any driving instruction books which suggest that people shouldn't merge on approach to lane closures. Eh, Did you have to sit a theory test when you sat your test?0
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It's our culture, innit.If you take the view that you we should all queue in one long line, how do we explain that to the children when they go for driving lessons? "Dad, why did they invent the 'Merge in turn' sign if you have made us sit in long lines of traffic for all these years? And what about the 'Merge ahead' signs, do they not mean use both lanes until you are told to move in or reach the roadworks? My instructor showed me rules 134 and 288 of the Highway Code about merging in turn and he said that the Advanced Motorists book Roadcraft tells us to merge on page 161. I told him you always just sit at the back of all the other cars and get really angry. The instructor then mentioned the Governments Traffic Signs manual which advises how to properly set up approaches to road works using the 'Merge in Turn' signs. He also said that he has never read in any driving instruction books which suggest that people shouldn't merge on approach to lane closures. Eh, Did you have to sit a theory test when you sat your test?The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
It's our culture, innit.If you take the view that you we should all queue in one long line, how do we explain that to the children when they go for driving lessons? "Dad, why did they invent the 'Merge in turn' sign if you have made us sit in long lines of traffic for all these years? And what about the 'Merge ahead' signs, do they not mean use both lanes until you are told to move in or reach the roadworks? My instructor showed me rules 134 and 288 of the Highway Code about merging in turn and he said that the Advanced Motorists book Roadcraft tells us to merge on page 161. I told him you always just sit at the back of all the other cars and get really angry. The instructor then mentioned the Governments Traffic Signs manual which advises how to properly set up approaches to road works using the 'Merge in Turn' signs. He also said that he has never read in any driving instruction books which suggest that people shouldn't merge on approach to lane closures. Eh, Did you have to sit a theory test when you sat your test?
So ingrained even a character in James Bond is named after it0
