1 min max effort, seated or out of the saddle?

robin440

hey guys,

how do i get the most out of a short 1 minute maximum effort? Should i stand during the whole minute or in the saddle spinning? And how should i pace it, hold back at the beginning or just flatout and the see how long i can hold this?

Alex_Simmons/RST

Why are you doing them?

neeb

I hardly ever do them because they are horrible, but if it's a truly maximum effort IME you will need to spend some time in and some time out of the saddle. And unlike a 30s effort I wouldn't go absolutely flat out initially as you will really fade at about 35 or 40 seconds... I would probably start seated, wind up the power a little in the first 15 seconds or so, and then when I'm starting to fade at around 35-40 seconds jump out of the saddle and mash it as hard as I can for the last bit..

neeb

But that's assuming that the object is maximising power output, which may not be the object you have in mind.

Zero7 Texas

WHS ^^

My best 1 min power tests have been while standing about 2/3 of the time, and seated 1/3. This increased my wattage by something like 20 watts, because otherwise my quads became over-tired.

Cheers

okgo

I think this will probably also depend on what kind of rider you are.

My best efforts have always been when I've sprinted as hard as I can right off the bat and then settle into the saddle after time but then I am quite fond of shorter big efforts so perhaps that approach suits me. I've not managed to do in training what I've done at the end of races, mainly due to motivation I suppose.

olake92

I find it helps to do them up a good hill, but one you can still stay on top of the gear on.

For me, 25 seconds in the saddle going hard but not too hard and the rest out of the saddle works best. However, I prefer negative splits. It might not be the same for you.

Alex_Simmons/RST

No response from OP, who's made one post. Not much we can really suggest without knowing a fair bit more.

cycleclinic

The OP may not have said why he is doing them but he wanted to know how to get the highest power out I presume. He may have been asking how get the most progression from them.

I do 1 minute efforts (they are horrible and my lungs are coming out of chest if I do it right then I do it again which is worse) seated because standing up means using a higher gear which is fine at the start but then i fade. Seated I can use a lower gear and spin more and I dont fade as quickly and can hold the same (it not the same but it not 700W fading to 200W at 55 secs either) power output for the whole climb. Using a higher gear for 1 minute + can mean if your cadence is low enough the muscle contractions close of blood supply to your muscles hence the fade.

I find 30 second efforts just as useful (standing up 53/16T) for a 5% hill and then do 2 to 3 minute intervals.

Intervals are are hard work whatever the OP does. I dont know what Alex thinks on this he is probably more clued up on it.

Alex_Simmons/RST

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19716016#p19716016]thecycleclinic[/url] wrote:

The OP may not have said why he is doing them but he wanted to know how to get the highest power out I presume. He may have been asking how get the most progression from them.

For many types of efforts or progression, it may not matter all that much because the objective is obvious, or the nature of intervals chosen is not massively important as what matters much more is doing the work consistently and with progression (training adaptations are on a continuum with intensity).

However for maximal efforts of about a minute's duration, things get really interesting physiologically, so much is going on that knowing what the objective is actually does matter.

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19716016#p19716016]thecycleclinic[/url] wrote:

Intervals are are hard work whatever the OP does.

Yep!

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19716016#p19716016]thecycleclinic[/url] wrote:

I don't know what Alex thinks on this he is probably more clued up on it.

Well in the case of many forms of interval training, most people over think them.

However ~1-minute maximal power is quite a tricky beast, since it has substantial contributions from peak neuromuscular power, from anaerobic work capacity and from aerobic capabilities. Indeed the metabolic energy pathways are roughly equally supplied via anaerobic and aerobic metabolism. Hence for attaining maximal 1-minute power, one needs to work on a balance of abilities (which naturally suggest training other than 1-minute efforts).

Then layer on that the context in which 1-minute performance is being applied, e.g. is it for a track TT, or a short decisive hillclimb at end of a race, or a race circuit with a 1-minute hill each lap, or something else? Each of these scenarios would imply a different training strategy for best performance, and the physics in each scenario is different as well, i.e. the interplay between changes in kinetic energy, changes in potential energy, and aerodynamics mean the nature of how and when power is applied over that minute can impact the race outcome.

For these reasons and others (including as you point out that they are vomit inducing and can in fact be a risky if not done in a safe location) it actually does matter to know why you are doing intervals of that duration.

diy

For me standing, as you can get more of your body doing the work and run with more load. But its not much good for the road. For sprinting, I try to get low and forward.

For one minute, I'd go hard and just try to hang on and then try to grab a bit more in the last 15 seconds.

okgo

How do you mean, its not much good for the road?

diy

Drag from not being as aerodynamic standing.

okgo

Depends on the finish doesn't it.

ozzzyosborn206

on a climb i would do the full minute out the saddle, however on the flat i would to 15-20 seconds out he saddle then next 30 seconds seated then out the saddle for last bit if trying to get max power for the minute. But like others have said doing a flat out min on the flat isn't going to help all that much if its a 1 min hill your training for and vice versa