Stans notubes alpha 340 wheelbuild
mattyboy199
Posts: 627
I'm planning in the coming months to get a wheelset built up, having looked into various carbon wheelsets the cost to weight saving ratio does not justify itself. The stans rims seems to be a winner, my DT swiss wheels (tricon 1700) which i must say are an awesome set weigh in around 1700grams & are super stiff, my aim is to lose 500grams but in order to do this need to select the correct hubs, spoke count, spokes & nipples.
I'm ideally after spoke/nipple/hub configurations as i am not totally familiar with the individual components & someone that will build them.
Budget around £600.
I'm ideally after spoke/nipple/hub configurations as i am not totally familiar with the individual components & someone that will build them.
Budget around £600.
Show me your green bits i might buy them !
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Comments
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You won't get down to 1200g with ZTR340s. Using Novatec A291SB-SL front and and A482SB-SL rear, built 20/24 with CX-Ray you'll get in around 1300g. You could go lighter on the hubs, but not by much and at vast expense. I've built a few sets of the ZTRs in this configuration. They work well, especially when used tubeless as they are intended to be.
The rims are about 385g each; the hubs are 288g the pair; spokes 187g (44 @ 4.25g each); nipples 44g. Add 5g per rim for tape, and about 10g for the valve, and you're at 1300g give or take. For the sake of 20g I usually build them with Sapim D-Light instead; they're much cheaper and only weigh fractionally more than the CX-Rays.
Things to think about:
1. You'll want to replace the NDS rear bearing with something better than stock; I use a hybrid ceramic. It's a very small bearing for the load (to save weight) and the stock item wears out quickly.
2. The rims shrink when you fit tubeless tyres; the wheels need retensioning once the tyre has been fitted. It's best, therefore, to get your wheelbuilder to fit the tyres for you.
3. Pacenti SL-23s are about 45g heavier per rim, but much more modern in design, being substantially wider. They're slightly more expensive, but much stronger - they don't need retensioning after fitting the tyre.0 -
To get down to 1.2 you need carbon rims... 20-38 mm tubulars weigh 250-300 grams each.
If your rims weigh 400 grams each like the Stans, it's a non starterleft the forum March 20230 -
Any pointers who I could get to build them?
Any reason why I shouldn't buy off the shelf factory build set that will come around the same weight?
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/stans-no-tubes-ztr-alpha-340-pro-wheelset/?lang=en&curr=GBP&dest=1&sku=5360720184&ci_src=18615224&ci_sku=5360720184uk&utm_source=google&utm_term&utm_campaign=UK_PLA_Components&utm_medium=base&utm_content=sb62E20I9_dm%7cpcrid%7c67090789502%7cpkw%7c%7cpmt%7c%7cprd%7c5360720184ukShow me your green bits i might buy them !0 -
I have a set of stans 240s that weigh 1200g using 20/24 spoke count with some insanely light hubs, which dont inspire confidence but did come in at about £350
would i do it again?
er no i'd buy something like Zondas and live with the extra 300gRule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.0 -
It seems like like the 340 pro wheelset is more suited to trackShow me your green bits i might buy them !0
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It seems like like the 340 pro wheelset is more suited to track
the rims are solid enough although the rim wall did look very thin, it was my lust for weight saving that perhaps encouraged me to put silly hubs on them.
that being said they look totally amazing and climb like stinkRule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.0 -
I built up a set very similar to those described by 964Cup, although I used DT revolution spokes 20/28. Mine weigh in at just under 1400g with tubeless tape. I'm very pleased with them. As has been said, you need to re-tension once tubeless tyres are on, but having done that once, they've not needed any attention since in a couple of years of consistent use. I've removed the stickers now to save that extra 2g
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Can anyone recommend a custom builder?Show me your green bits i might buy them !0
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Price? You could get them built on Novatec for £450 with D-Light spokes, or £500 with CX-Ray. Including rim tape and valves.Any pointers who I could get to build them?
Any reason why I shouldn't buy off the shelf factory build set that will come around the same weight?
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/stans-no-tubes-ztr-alpha-340-pro-wheelset/?lang=en&curr=GBP&dest=1&sku=5360720184&ci_src=18615224&ci_sku=5360720184uk&utm_source=google&utm_term&utm_campaign=UK_PLA_Components&utm_medium=base&utm_content=sb62E20I9_dm%7cpcrid%7c67090789502%7cpkw%7c%7cpmt%7c%7cprd%7c5360720184uk
Also, I'd be reluctant to go with an 18-spoke front on these wheels, unless you're very light. If you're over 85kg, or push a lot of power, I'd go 24/28.0 -
Can anyone recommend a custom builder?
Not the sharpest tool in the box, so to speak...
Everybody is advising you against a 1200 g build on the Stans, but feel free to ask for advice and then ignore it...
left the forum March 20230 -
Can anyone recommend a custom builder?
Not the sharpest tool in the box, so to speak...
Everybody is advising you against a 1200 g build on the Stans, but feel free to ask for advice and then ignore it...
I haven't got anything built yet! I need to find a reliable recommended wheel builder, I've taken the advice on board and it's likely I will aim for 1300grams but still want to go custom.
It can be achieved you just won't end up with a reliable wheelset
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/components/wheel-sets/product/review-stans-notubes-ztr-alpha-340-pro-wheelset-10-39678/Show me your green bits i might buy them !0 -
In my experience, Stans on Novatec SB or SB-SL with D-Light, either 20/24 or 24/28, are perfectly solid, provided you a) retension after fitting the tyres and b) change out the NDS bearing on the SB-SLs.
The first set I built have done 18 months of London commuting without trouble, and two of my clubmates ride sets I built for them on all of our club rides and sportives (& the occasional race).
All that said, both Pacenti SL-23 (if you want tubeless) and H+Son Archetype (if you don't) are objectively better rims, if/because heavier.0 -
I've got some Stans 340 rims built onto some fairly light American classic hubs. Spoke count is 24 / 28. Not sure I'd buy exactly the same spec again.
Pros are:
Light (full set are about 1340 g without rim tape, skewers etc)
Climb well
Hubs spin quite well
Cons:
Tubeless tyres only really - had a few tubed tyres actually pop off the rim
Braking surface isn't great
Hubs aren't the most robust
These were built up by JustRidingAlong who I would buy from again if in the market for some handbuilts. Hope this helps0 -
Can confirm that ordinary clinchers with tubes can pop off these rims. Having first hand experience of this I wouldn't want to go barrelling down a hill at speed on them...........
Another vote for Pacenti or Archetype although I believe the Ryde Pulse Sprint rims are decent...FFS! Harden up and grow a pair
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I'm quite surprised that is the case, does increasing the psi help or no difference?Show me your green bits i might buy them !0
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Come to think of it mine blew off the rim on my first ride, I'd put it down to the tiight clinchers and a bad fitting.Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.0 -
Bad fitting of the Tire by you? or how the Tire fits the profile of the rim. I run crest rims on my mtb and never had an issue their tubeless but I run tubes.Show me your green bits i might buy them !0
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I'm quite surprised that is the case, does increasing the psi help or no difference?
Makes it worse... 90 PSI is the recommended safe limitleft the forum March 20230 -
Can anyone recommend a custom builder?
Try reading the thread (sticky) on Road Buying Advice page called "Handbuilt wheels....the big thread" http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40042&t=13020726
As you read that you'll be able to read lots of advice and questions and answers about specific builds, which is given by some knowledgeable posters and a few particularly well regarded wheelbuilders. As you read it you should be able to work out who the highly regarded wheel builders are.
I hope this helps.
Cheers,
D0 -
I'm quite surprised that is the case, does increasing the psi help or no difference?
Makes it worse... 90 PSI is the recommended safe limit
what do you mean 90 psi, what for stans 340s ?Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.0 -
I'm quite surprised that is the case, does increasing the psi help or no difference?
Makes it worse... 90 PSI is the recommended safe limit
what do you mean 90 psi, what for stans 340s ?
Yes, 90 PSI for Stans 340... read:
http://www.justridingalong.com/notubes-ztr-alpha-340-2012.htmlleft the forum March 20230 -
Tyres blowing of these rims at high pressures is a well known problem. the bead hook is only really sutiable for tubeless tyres.
If the very light Extralite hubs in 24F/28R spoke count are used you could get a wheelset down to 1220g but is it sensible probably not. Extralite hubs are crazy italian hubs that are silly light and very expensive.
the whole point of carbon rims is they are more aerodynamic and that wins over low weight every time. 38mm deep carbon rims (tubular) are ~300g so you can have light with these. Carbon clinchers are not light so best go with a deeper wide rim with these so they are as aerodynamic as possible.
the other alloy rim that would could use that is wider internally and externally and therefore stiffer, has a proper bead hook and is the same weight 385g is the Ryde Pulse Sprint. 1310g for a wheelset with these is possible with the novatec hubs but really I would suggest heavier more reliable hubs unless you like changing bearings.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0 -
Quite. Also, there really is no point using these rims if you're not going tubeless; that's their USP.Tyres blowing of these rims at high pressures is a well known problem. the bead hook is only really sutiable for tubeless tyres.
My Enve 45 tubs on Chris King are 1100g. With Extralite or the new Enve cosmospandronic unobtainium & carbon hubs I imagine you could get down to just over the kilo. God knows why we think hub weight matters, though.38mm deep carbon rims (tubular) are ~300g so you can have light with these. Carbon clinchers are not light so best go with a deeper wide rim with these so they are as aerodynamic as possible.
While I agree that the Novatec bearings, especially in the SB-SL, are undersized, I've had good results switching them out for hybrid ceramics or proper Enduro 2RS bearings. The supplied bearings are not great quality to begin with. I reckon you still need to change them out (or at least the ludicrously small NDS bearing) every 5,000km or so - sooner if you do a lot of wet riding - but at least the bearings are inexpensive and changing them is trivially easy.the other alloy rim that would could use that is wider internally and externally and therefore stiffer, has a proper bead hook and is the same weight 385g is the Ryde Pulse Sprint. 1310g for a wheelset with these is possible with the novatec hubs but really I would suggest heavier more reliable hubs unless you like changing bearings.0 -
The NDS rear bearing in the SB-SL hub is the same size as the bearing in the standad hubs 6802. I have SKF bearings and these have made no difference same result with INA. What has put me of the hubs altogether is a few customer having bearing failure on the first ride. Well that is expensive for me and bad or the end user.
In general any captive bearing hub can be problematic. I dont think it is the bearing that is at fault WI T11 hubs use 6802 bearings and they manage to be very reliable. It is the hub design the inability to adjust bearing preload so any intolerance in the axle will result in poor than normal bearing life.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0 -
The NDS rear bearing in the SB-SL hub is the same size as the bearing in the standad hubs 6802. I have SKF bearings and these have made no difference same result with INA. What has put me of the hubs altogether is a few customer having bearing failure on the first ride. Well that is expensive for me and bad or the end user.
In general any captive bearing hub can be problematic. I dont think it is the bearing that is at fault WI T11 hubs use 6802 bearings and they manage to be very reliable. It is the hub design the inability to adjust bearing preload so any intolerance in the axle will result in poor than normal bearing life.
What kills small bearings are poor tolerances. If the casing is perfect and the axle fits perfectly, even a tiny bearing should last a reasonably long time, given adequate load. Clearly the 482 model hasn't got good enough tolerances. For comparison I have a pair of Chosen disc hubs, which have the same bearings, but they seem to last pretty wellleft the forum March 20230 -
The NDS rear bearing in the SB-SL hub is the same size as the bearing in the standad hubs 6802. I have SKF bearings and these have made no difference same result with INA. What has put me of the hubs altogether is a few customer having bearing failure on the first ride. Well that is expensive for me and bad or the end user.
Sorry, haven't changed one of these for a while; I got my sides mixed up. It's the DS which is smaller on the SL. The F482SB takes a 6802 and a 6902 (15x28x7). The SL takes a 6802 and a 15x26x7. In other words the DS bearing is 2mm smaller than in the standard hub (it's the same bearing as the two in the freehub).
My issue with the bearings in the 482 has been that the NDS dries out, presumably because the stock seals aren't much cop. I've conflated this with the bearing size differences.0 -
I've been offered a kinlin xr200 with r13 powerway hubs, this is the first I heard of this wheelset, I've read a few reviews and there doesn't seem to be a down side. Price is quite reasonable too.Show me your green bits i might buy them !0
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I've been offered a kinlin xr200 with r13 powerway hubs, this is the first I heard of this wheelset, I've read a few reviews and there doesn't seem to be a down side. Price is quite reasonable too.
Powerway are Bitex... basically it's cheap and cheerful components...left the forum March 20230 -
Well i've spent a lot of time looking at various options carbon & alloy both clinchers.
At the moment i swayed towards the following.
ZTR Alpha 340
20/28 spoke count
American classics micro 58
American classic 205
aluminum nipples
2 0r 3 cross spoke pattern - CX-ray spokes
Should come in around 1250-1300g
Be interested to hear anyones thoughts.Show me your green bits i might buy them !0 -
Well i've spent a lot of time looking at various options carbon & alloy both clinchers.
At the moment i swayed towards the following.
ZTR Alpha 340
20/28 spoke count
American classics micro 58
American classic 205
aluminum nipples
2 0r 3 cross spoke pattern - CX-ray spokes
Should come in around 1250-1300g
Be interested to hear anyones thoughts.
Well, radial on the front, for a start. Why 28 on the rear? - 24 is fine, unless you're chunky, in which case go 24 on the front. Hubs seem like an expensive alternative to the Novatec 291/482SB-SL pair (which can be had for less than £100 the pair). Alloy nipples if you gotta, but it's a small weight saving for potentially significant problems down the line.0
