Religious Pointlessness
Finesilver24
Posts: 140
Why is it that it is not acceptable to portray images of Mohammed? Why do non-Islamists accept this rule based on no evidence?
Why is it acceptable to circumcise 8 day old babies to allow the baby (though it never actually happened as God is a human construct) to remember the covenant between God and Abraham, but female genital mutilation is not considered acceptable in the West, but widely practised in the Middle East and Africa?
At what point should religion be held up to be the ridiculous dark age hokus pokus that it really is, and secular society is understood to be the epitome of logical and rational thought?
Yes, I have been reading Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins.
Why is it acceptable to circumcise 8 day old babies to allow the baby (though it never actually happened as God is a human construct) to remember the covenant between God and Abraham, but female genital mutilation is not considered acceptable in the West, but widely practised in the Middle East and Africa?
At what point should religion be held up to be the ridiculous dark age hokus pokus that it really is, and secular society is understood to be the epitome of logical and rational thought?
Yes, I have been reading Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins.
0
Comments
-
I too share your bewilderment at man's desire to cling to fairy stories. Yes. dark age hocus pocus seems to cover it. Some religions are more dark age than others.
Search through the forum and you will find the Charlie Hebdo thread and you will see that people are willing to countenance a great deal rather than risk offending someone's religion. FFS!!
As regards circumcision, I believe it was widespread in the US as people thought it had health benefits. Circumcised or not, it's no skin off my nose.0 -
Circumcised or not, it's no skin off my nose.
Good job you're not a religious man Bally :P"Arran, you are like the Tony Benn of smut. You have never diluted your depravity and always stand by your beliefs. You have my respect sir and your wife my pity"
seanoconn0 -
Any discussion about religion is pointless.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Apparently the surgeons who perform this operation don't get paid very well, but they do get a lot of tips.0
-
Ba boom tish Pinno, מלך אידיוט וחרא מכונאי0
-
Sorry but FGM is slightly different in its origins and reasons I believe. I hope I'm not sounding like a man hating feminist when I say that FGM is about men controlling women's bodies. Circumcision in men is not about controlling their bodies. I confess to not knowing all about it but FGM is in part about what men want in their women. It is the ignorant male believing FGM ensures chastity before marriage in some archaic idea that women's bodies are owned by men from birth through childhood, into marriage and to death. Forgive me but male circumcision was never about being owned.0
-
P.S. I agree that religion is often pointless and is an outdated way to codify how a society can and should live together.
Can I suggest that as well as Dawkins you read Allain de Botton's religion for atheists book. It might provide a counter-argument to Dawkins about religion. Not to say it supports it just that some good is within religion that is applicable to atheists and all peoples. I think Dawkins is a little too preachy about atheism and against religion at times so a tempering of his arguments with a more understanding version of atheism is valuable IMHO.0 -
Kill him! Kill the infidel!Any discussion about religion is pointless.Ecrasez l’infame0 -
I have no problem with people being religious or believing whatever they like as long as it doesn't negatively affected anyone else, unfortunately it often does.
I can't get my head round how people believe it in this day and age. If one religion was true why are they all so tied in with location, wouldn't one of them have sprung up in two different places independently if it was really the true religion? And 2000 years ago you could hardly move for a religious event going off somewhere and now nothing? what does God do with his time these days, I mean he is fairly efficient, he made EVERYTHING in 6 days whats he been doing for the past 6000 years (if you believe the young earthers).www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes0 -
Long live the flying spaghetti monsterAdvocate of disc brakes.0
-
As well as the late great Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins (not quite as great and definitely not yet late), you forgot to mention Sam Harris.
It beats me why anyone would want to believe in something that is obviously not true and quite clearly man made. I watched the launch of the book "Islam and the future of tolerance" with Same Harris and Maajid Nawaz. I have so much respect for both these guys, and they are fascinating to listen too. What they say is all common sense!
What Sam does is to criticise bad ideas, and we should all be free to criticise bad ideas especially those that stem from religion.WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
Find me on Strava0 -
But.acknowledge.their.good ideas too. Any group, whether religious or not, will generate good and bad bad ideas. Throwing out the baby with the bath water is not right neither. What I mean is that each philosophy or religion or belief should be considered dispassionately for their merit. Cherry pick the best ideas of each to make society better.
Religion is a societal construct and as such a reflection of the needs of the society at the time of its creation. Whilst it changes over time the basics are set at its inception. Atheism is another form of narrative with.benefits and weaknesses. On top of that you can practise parts of any doctrine without believing in it all. That's a way of cherry picking what suits you. I certainly don't buy into Dawkinism but it has some merit too.
P.S. the FSM system as a parody has merit but jeez it's old hat now. Surely there's a better way of showing up religious stupidity the the FSM by now?0 -
They pretty much believe that a guy sitting up in the clouds created everything and is in complete charge of everything going on down here.P.S. the FSM system as a parody has merit but jeez it's old hat now. Surely there's a better way of showing up religious stupidity the the FSM by now?
Parody is the only answer as the argument is ridiculous before you even start. Pointless bothering.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
There are a lot of people who have a change of heart on their deathbeds but I suppose that when we die we will find out for sure.0
-
There are a lot of people who have a change of heart on their deathbeds but I suppose that when we die we will find out for sure.
Just to be pedantic, if there is no God we will never find out, because when we die we will be .. erm, dead won't we?.0 -
Agreed but the FSM is a tired parody. Time for something else. A new parody or something I think.
They pretty much believe that a guy sitting up in the clouds created everything and is in complete charge of everything going on down here.P.S. the FSM system as a parody has merit but jeez it's old hat now. Surely there's a better way of showing up religious stupidity the the FSM by now?
Parody is the only answer as the argument is ridiculous before you even start. Pointless bothering.
BTW I used to believe in something that you could call God if you wanted and associated with Christianity. Then I had a really nice teacher for my A-levels. He taught maths, chemistry and RE as well as being a lay preacher I think. A born again Christian I think. He was.our form or class teacher for 2 years and made us give talks of a religious, ethical or moral topic. The other classes used that time to socialize but not us. He used it to turn off every.discussion into an opportunity to argue that there was evidence of the real.existence of God. The arguments were so illogical that they had the complete opposite effect with everyone in the class. He was a joke in that matter but such a good, nice and fair to teacher that we let him have that religious quirk.
The result was.that I became almost a militant atheist worse than Dawkins. I once tried to convert Jehovah witnesses who made the mistake of knocking on my bike door. The nice woman had a young girl with her and I think I got through to that girl. The Jehovah's witnesses never come up our end of the street now. I've actually seen them walk quickly past my house nodding my way so I know I've got to.them.
Having said that I firmly believe religion had and indeed still has value among all the mumbo jumbo. Religion and their institutes have been our scribes of state, the civil service of the past. Our laws were heavily influenced. There's much to value hence my view that we can pick bits from all religion to make the world a better place. Things like mindfulness, based on Buddhist meditation and other religious meditation, is one newish example. Singing makes you happier I believe research has shown, with group singing the best, religion has been doing that for millennia, probably right back to our predecessors in the hominid branch of the tree. Perhaps I'm wrong here but a clever guy/philosopher such as Alain de Botton has argued this better in the book I recommended.0 -
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
-
I'm happy to say that I'm 100% aithiest, I believe in evolution and everything that goes with it.
However I have walked throught the Vatican and various other religious places not to look at a cross but to look at the buildings themselves and fancy things contained therin.Advocate of disc brakes.0 -
I agree we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water but consider all ideas on their merits. But that's exactly the secular way and means that religious beliefs per se are meaningless. Just cos a book says this or that idea is good, doesn't mean its good. To belief the book is to have blind faith which is intellectually bankrupt.
I'm not sure I would describe atheism as a "narrative", and I have no idea what Dawkinism, except that he also believes in taking ideas on their merits.WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
Find me on Strava0 -
I'm happy to say that I'm 100% aithiest, I believe in evolution and everything that goes with it.
However I have walked throught the Vatican and various other religious places not to look at a cross but to look at the buildings themselves and fancy things contained therin.
Another born again atheist here. I too have marvelled at the Vatican, the Duomo, Salisbury Cathedral et all. But only on an architectural level. Salisbury Cathedral is an incredible construction and to think that each block/brick was hand cut and each one fits perfectly, it's amazing. I also recently saw a documentary on the Sultan Qaboos mosque in Muscat, quite the most beautiful building with its intricate marble work.
But however wonderous and beautiful these buildings are. I loath and despise what they stand for. I still cannot understand why human beings in the 21st century subscribe to any religion as a way of life.
Human evolution is at an end, we are now entering the era of engineering where we could see colonisation of planets and interstellar travel. Yet how can anyone square the circle of any advanced civilisation worshiping a non existent omnipotent being.Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.0 -
But however wonderous and beautiful these buildings are. I loath and despise what they stand for. I still cannot understand why human beings in the 21st century subscribe to any religion as a way of life.
Because it gives their lives purpose and meaning.Human evolution is at an end, we are now entering the era of engineering where we could see colonisation of planets and interstellar travel. Yet how can anyone square the circle of any advanced civilisation worshiping a non existent omnipotent being.
And this doesn't for the vast majority of the human race.- - - - - - - - - -
On Strava.{/url}0 -
Evolution at an end? How right is that? Isn't evolution a process, kind of something that will always just a keep happening?
Homo Sapiens as hunter gatherers had a low lactose tolerance. Since the beginning of the switch to a settled, farming existence and modern times our species has evolved to become more lactose tolerant. IIRC we've gone from about 5% of adult population lactose tolerant to probably higher than 70%. Something like that anyway. That's from a documentary I think about oetzl the alpine ice man. Interesting that the "experts" say evolution is actually happening.
It seems some atheists have trouble accepting that others gain benefit from their pointless religions. Funny how people seem to accept that it is personal choice to do a lot of different things but as soon as it becomes a matter of faith or religion atheists suddenly come out with a kind of intolerance.tolerance for all things except religion. Of course religion that harms, deprives or otherwise deprives others of their human rights is wrong but any thing that is not like that is part of an individual's personal choice. Ridiculing them for their beliefs is kind of harassment or intolerance. However I do like life of Brian. But then I'm not the messiah just a very naughty boy!0 -
Evolution at an end? How right is that? Isn't evolution a process, kind of something that will always just a keep happening?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/evolution/10297124/Sir-David-Attenborough-Humans-have-stopped-evolving.htmlAlways be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.0 -
I would say that a large percentage are already there.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
No. Wrong Ballysmate because if there is a God then when we die we are granted eternal life in heaven. So by that thinking we will find out.0
-
No. Wrong Ballysmate because if there is a God then when we die we are granted eternal life in heaven. So by that thinking we will find out.
So we have 50/50 chance of finding out.0 -
Evolution at an end? How right is that? Isn't evolution a process, kind of something that will always just a keep happening?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/evolution/10297124/Sir-David-Attenborough-Humans-have-stopped-evolving.html
That all seems to be based on thisDavid Attenborough wrote:We stopped natural selection as soon as we started being able to rear 95–99 per cent of our babies that are born."
but there are a lot of countries where this is definitely not the case so evolution should still be happening in those places?www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes0 -
Have you seen Wall E?
I would say that a large percentage are already there.0 -
If evolution had anything to say about no-foreskin being better then none of us would have foreskins. Chopping foreskins off is just one of many human body-modification rituals found across the globe.Circumcision is a bit more complicated. The practice of foreskin removal developed independently in many different cultures around the world in pre-history. That would suggest that in a Neolithic type society there must be some evolutionary advantage to it.
When it comes to chopping bits off babies for no medical reason - it needs to stop. Circumcision of children should be against the law.You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.0 -
Sir David is a legend but he is wrong here. Completely wrong.Evolution at an end? How right is that? Isn't evolution a process, kind of something that will always just a keep happening?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/evolution/10297124/Sir-David-Attenborough-Humans-have-stopped-evolving.htmlYou only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.0
