Race vs endurance bikes? I have some unanswered questions..?
Comments
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Right, because anything with drop bars can be raced right?
Quite honestly, I struggle to see why some posters are so offended by the notion that the Allez might not be aimed at racing.
Possibly because that assertion is not correct? Call me picky n all that....
See how you get on with that at your next criterium.
Still, for what the OP has actually asked, I think the Allez would be a perfectly reasonable choice as a starter road bike that he'll be comfy riding miles on while still being capable of doing the odd race/TT - I just think that in time (same as philthy3) he'll probably want something more aggressive (or a dedicated TT bike if that ends up being his bag). That was my experience.
Imposter wasn't making the point that all drop bar bikes would be ideal race/criterium bikes, anyway quoted from the Specialized website:
Looking for the most advanced alloy bike ever made? Look no further than the Allez. Featuring our revolutionary D’Aluisio Smartweld Technology, it's shaped and engineered to decrease weight, increase stiffness, and improve overall ride quality, all while providing the perfect combination of responsiveness and compliance. It's the perfect bike to either smash around your next crit, or to take your riding to the next level.
Perhaps you want to take your arguement up with Specialized0 -
Yeah, I don't think the Allez is a race oriented bike either :roll:
http://www.specializedconceptstore.co.uk/s-works-allez-frameset/33274/15allez
To be honest you can race on just about any road bike regardless of the Endurance or Race label attached to them, as long as it fits you then what's the issue?
I race a Felt Z75 which is categorised as an endurance bike as the head tube is longer and the reach is shorter, but it fits me and doesn't do me any harm.Obsessed is a word used by the lazy to describe the dedicated!0 -
Right, because anything with drop bars can be raced right?
No, that has disks. Duh.
Other wise, (with different tyres) why not.0 -
Exactly - we're all different shapes, and we all work slightly differently, and tactics are a part of it - if you're on a long breakaway then a low aero position is more important than if you're a bunch sprinter, following wheels most of the race - all I know is that I used to have a bike with very similar geometry to the 61cm Allez, and it felt much too upright, and far less nimble than my other bike - a 7ft tall rider or quite simply more leggy rider might have found it perfect.He nor I have said they're no good for racing on.
Quite honestly, I struggle to see why some posters are so offended by the notion that the Allez might not be aimed at racing. If you have one/race one good for you, personally I would choose something more aggressive (or customize the fit of an allez in order to accomodate my needs, by getting a smaller bike than normal and longer stem).
First off, low=/=aero. The position must be sustainable, the lower the position, generally the less sustainable it is. Plenty of people run 10cm of drop and can't sustain anything other than straight armed positions, consider that bent arm positions are generally faster (more aerodynamic). We have a bike fit jig at work and I observed, after overlaying footage from two different positions that I was actually 'lower' and had smaller surface area with 7.5cm of drop as opposed to 10cm of drop. Moving to 38cm bars also made me smaller. Impossible to verifying whether it would be faster (more aerodynamic) though, CDA is 3D, sufrace area 2D.
Also, here's a list of bikes, in 54cm or equivalent (i.e. those likely to fit those of an average height) and their respective stack to reach ratios (the main, but not exclusive indicator of fit type of a road bike), as you can see, the Allez has a low stack to reach ratio like the other race bikes. I'll say it again, in terms of fit, it absolutely is a Race bike in terms of fit. Anything else is pure conjecture. The allez is not marketed as a sportive or casual bike, if it sold as that then the salesman should know his product better. Though seeing as the Allez sport is Specilaized's most popular bike, many make this mistake.
Allez: 1.41
Tarmac: 1.4
S5: 1.41
S2/3: 1.47 (unusually high)
Emonda/Madone H2: 1.45
Emonda/Madone H1: 1.35 (incredibly low)
Tarmac/Venge: 1.4
Propel/TCR: 1.43
Cube Lightening: 1.41
Izalco Max: 1.380 -
To be honest I stand corrected on the smaller frame sizes - obviously in the 54cm frame size the allez is considerably more racey than in the 61cm that I'd looked at the numbers for.
Of course, I've also been a bit lazy in describing aerodynamics as the advantage of a low front on the bike - it's also about bringing down the centre of gravity thus improving cornering speed/handling, and providing more leverage when yanking on the bars in a sprint - this being the reason track sprinters have exceptionally low bars.0 -
this being the reason track sprinters have exceptionally low bars.
Except they don't really. Certainly not exceptionally low, anyway. Flat back on the drops is all you need, and most trackies on drops tend not to go much lower than that, cos they still need to be able to breathe.
I know you're gonna think I'm picking on you now, but I'm not. You just don't seem to know what you're talking about, that's all..
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To be honest I stand corrected on the smaller frame sizes - obviously in the 54cm frame size the allez is considerably more racey than in the 61cm that I'd looked at the numbers for
Larger frames generally tend to have less racier geometries - for example this is true of the supersix evo - the 63 the stack- reach ratio is 1.55, the 61 allez the ratio is 1.55. In terms of the 54 the evo is 1.42 and the allez is 1.410 -
To be honest I stand corrected on the smaller frame sizes - obviously in the 54cm frame size the allez is considerably more racey than in the 61cm that I'd looked at the numbers for
Larger frames generally tend to have less racier geometries - for example this is true of the supersix evo - the 63 the stack- reach ratio is 1.55, the 61 allez the ratio is 1.55. In terms of the 54 the evo is 1.42 and the allez is 1.41
Stack to reach ratio increases with size. This does not mean a 56cm is less racy than a 54cm, it merely means it is a bigger bike. For instance the Supersix evo has quite a big jump between 54 and 56cm, partic in terms of reach, it actually gets a bit racier with the size jump, though it's marginal (if my memory is correct). You're looking to compare two different bikes of comparable size. It's still worth looking at the differences between sizes though, for instance, the reach of a 49cm Venge is the same as a 52cm Venge.0 -
Mate, if you think you'll do just fine at a crit on a monstercross bike then I think you're the one that doesn't know what you're talking about. Please, be my guest and try it.this being the reason track sprinters have exceptionally low bars.
Except they don't really. Certainly not exceptionally low, anyway. Flat back on the drops is all you need, and most trackies on drops tend not to go much lower than that, cos they still need to be able to breathe.
I know you're gonna think I'm picking on you now, but I'm not. You just don't seem to know what you're talking about, that's all..
Where you make the leap from 'exceptionally low' to 'so low that they are unable to breathe and their backs are past the vertical' is where your argument rather falls down. If you can find any 'exceptional' cases where riders set their bars below the point a track sprinter would have them, then you might have an argument.0 -
Mate, if you think you'll do just fine at a crit on a monstercross bike then I think you're the one that doesn't know what you're talking about. Please, be my guest and try it.this being the reason track sprinters have exceptionally low bars.
Except they don't really. Certainly not exceptionally low, anyway. Flat back on the drops is all you need, and most trackies on drops tend not to go much lower than that, cos they still need to be able to breathe.
I know you're gonna think I'm picking on you now, but I'm not. You just don't seem to know what you're talking about, that's all..
Where you make the leap from 'exceptionally low' to 'so low that they are unable to breathe and their backs are past the vertical' is where your argument rather falls down. If you can find any 'exceptional' cases where riders set their bars below the point a track sprinter would have them, then you might have an argument.
I'm not the one suggesting that trackies have 'exceptionally low' bars - you are. The point is, they don't have 'exceptionally low' bars. I'm not making any claims of my own, beyond correcting yours (again)
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So are you telling me that if Jason Kenny did a 100 mile event he'd ride with his bars at the same height as he rides his match sprints?
Mate, if you think you'll do just fine at a crit on a monstercross bike then I think you're the one that doesn't know what you're talking about. Please, be my guest and try it.this being the reason track sprinters have exceptionally low bars.
Except they don't really. Certainly not exceptionally low, anyway. Flat back on the drops is all you need, and most trackies on drops tend not to go much lower than that, cos they still need to be able to breathe.
I know you're gonna think I'm picking on you now, but I'm not. You just don't seem to know what you're talking about, that's all..
Where you make the leap from 'exceptionally low' to 'so low that they are unable to breathe and their backs are past the vertical' is where your argument rather falls down. If you can find any 'exceptional' cases where riders set their bars below the point a track sprinter would have them, then you might have an argument.
I'm not the one suggesting that trackies have 'exceptionally low' bars - you are. The point is, they don't have 'exceptionally low' bars. I'm not making any claims of my own, beyond correcting yours (again)
If you choose to interpret 'exceptional' wrongly to make yourself feel smug, be my guest.0 -
So are you telling me that if Jason Kenny did a 100 mile event he'd ride with his bars at the same height as he rides his match sprints?
If you choose to interpret 'exceptional' wrongly to make yourself feel smug, be my guest.
Wow - how did we get on to Jason Kenny riding a 100 miler..??
You said - trackies have exceptionally low bars (if you don't believe me, go back and read your own posts). I'm simply saying they don't. Just take the correction, FFS, and move on. You're embarrassing yourself.0 -
If noone else has their bars as low as track sprinters, or indeed lower than, then they are by definition exceptional.So are you telling me that if Jason Kenny did a 100 mile event he'd ride with his bars at the same height as he rides his match sprints?
If you choose to interpret 'exceptional' wrongly to make yourself feel smug, be my guest.
Wow - how did we get on to Jason Kenny riding a 100 miler..??
You said - trackies have exceptionally low bars (if you don't believe me, go back and read your own posts). I'm simply saying they don't. Just take the correction, FFS, and move on. You're embarrassing yourself.
Would you prefer if I had just said 'very low' or would you have tried to pointlessly 'correct' me on that too?0
