SRAM eTap wireless is here
Joeblack
Posts: 829
http://cyclingtips.com.au/2015/08/wireless-game-changer-sram-introduces-etap/
Good review here.
What's everyone's thoughts, personally I know it's a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist but I think it looks very clean and tidy, despite the slight weight penalty I think I'd upgrade to this over DA Di2 next year.
Plus side is Di2 must come down in price now.
Good review here.
What's everyone's thoughts, personally I know it's a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist but I think it looks very clean and tidy, despite the slight weight penalty I think I'd upgrade to this over DA Di2 next year.
Plus side is Di2 must come down in price now.
One plays football, tennis or golf, one does not play at cycling
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I like the fact you can put the satellite shifters under the bar tape, much cleaner looking than the shimano ones0
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I like it! Most of the issue with fitting the likes of Di2 is with running the cables, and fitting the battery, this does away with that at a stroke.
I do like the right to shift up, left to shift down shifting too.
I wonder if you could just get the shifters and front/rear dérailleurs have have them work with your existing chainset etc, or does that have to be SRAM too?0 -
Definitely interested in this for tt bike, but was hoping it would be less than 2 grand! Not a fan of being an early adopter for this kind of thing though so hopefully prices will drop a bit by the time I'm ready to consider it...0
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When do we get wireless only frames with no external or internal cable routing? That must save 50g and avoid having holes or plugs.0
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Bike radar mentioned a slight delay in between pressing the shifter and the shift happening. That is a big turn off for me. I want instant shifts.
I would imagine that the wireless communication is not as fast as wired; for example my Di2 has a wireless gear position sender that displays gear position on the Garmin. Very useful, but there is a delay between the shift and the new position being displayed.
I'm wary of wireless; so many gadgets I've had in the past have worked much better when wired.
Also, battery life seems less than Di2?0 -
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I would imagine that the wireless communication is not as fast as wired;
Your imagination is mistaken...0 -
Definitely on my list for 2016Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.0 -
11/28 max for now but that should suit most riders. It seems to work with existing 11 speed cassettes and cranksets.0
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11/28 max for now but that should suit most riders.
I believe Di2 is the same?It seems to work with existing 11 speed cassettes and cranksets.
Where did you read that? (I don't know why I'm interested as I can't afford it, lol)0 -
It's on the BR video on the home page, I'm quite happy with my mechanical SRAM........for now11/28 max for now but that should suit most riders.
I believe Di2 is the same?It seems to work with existing 11 speed cassettes and cranksets.
Where did you read that? (I don't know why I'm interested as I can't afford it, lol)
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11/28 max for now but that should suit most riders.
I believe Di2 is the same?It seems to work with existing 11 speed cassettes and cranksets.
Where did you read that? (I don't know why I'm interested as I can't afford it, lol)
It's more that no one has said you need different cranks/chain/cassette. The new stuff is in the derailleurs only, they have nt changed anything on the restWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
11/28 max for now but that should suit most riders.
I believe Di2 is the same?It seems to work with existing 11 speed cassettes and cranksets.
Where did you read that? (I don't know why I'm interested as I can't afford it, lol)
No Ultegra Di2 goes up to 11-32 if you buy the GS rear derailleur.0 -
I would imagine that the wireless communication is not as fast as wired;
Your imagination is mistaken...
So why the delay mentioned by BR then?!!0 -
To be released in Spring 2016…and recalled in Autumn 2016.0
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I would imagine that the wireless communication is not as fast as wired;
Your imagination is mistaken...
So why the delay mentioned by BR then?!!
Caused by the software that sends or receives the shift messages, not the transmission medium.0 -
Looks nice, definite like the rattle free fitting. My di2 gives the occassional noise over the bumpy stuff. Guess the real advantage will come when the frame manufacturers liberate the advantages of not having internal cable routings.0
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I would imagine that the wireless communication is not as fast as wired;
Your imagination is mistaken...
So why the delay mentioned by BR then?!!
Caused by the software that sends or receives the shift messages, not the transmission medium.
How complicated does the software have to be? Isn't it just up and down?
I seem to remember writing a program like that on the ZX Spectrum...!
Is the system always 'on' as in, is the Bluetooth type connection between the shifters and derailleurs always maintained? This would surely be battery hungry. Or does the shifter fire a comms burst only when pressed?
I'm no gamer, but isn't it true that pro gamers prefer cabled mice to wireless ones?0 -
I'm no gamer, but isn't it true that pro gamers prefer cabled mice to wireless ones?
Probably only because the batteries on wireless mice can run down mid game - usually at the least convenient moment. Nothing to do with the wireless signal.0 -
The connection is not constantly maintained. It only 'Wales' when there is a shift to be done
Wired mice are used for gaming because you need millisecond responses and accuracy. Shifting on a bike just doesn't need that kind of speed, the motor not the signalling system is the bottleneck.0 -
I would imagine that the wireless communication is not as fast as wired;
Your imagination is mistaken...
So why the delay mentioned by BR then?!!
Because, apparently:
"SRAM’s engineers optimized the shift speed, consistency and accuracy, with precision prioritized over out-and-out speed. A chain that engages each sprocket will work at its best for far longer, while one that’s being smashed across teeth is damaging to both chain and cassette, McLaughlin said, so SRAM looked to eliminate these ‘bad’ shifts."
The above could just be marketing of course0 -
If the connection's coming wirelessly from Wales then that may explain the latency. I believe so far it's only been tested by journalists at SRAM's HQ in Germany. Presumably those of us who do our riding closer to Wales should experience lower latency.The connection is not constantly maintained. It only 'Wales' when there is a shift to be done0 -
It seems the price of just the electronic bits will be around £1000, which doesn't sound too bad TBH. But I was wondering if there is any real reason why I can't just go for a Shimano 105 crank and cassette, instead of going the full Red setup? There by having an electronic setup, at a much lower cost (£2000 for the full Red eTAP setup).0
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Nope, no reason at all.0
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Oh this might be the motivation behind a new Summer 16 build
tick - tick - tick0 -
I would imagine that the wireless communication is not as fast as wired;
Your imagination is mistaken...
So why the delay mentioned by BR then?!!
We were in a cafe in Bunyola in the spring, one of us took a pic of a prototype setup, 1 of the 2 riders came up and asked us to delete the photo, which we did, they thanked us and one of the guys gave us a long chat about the system and the new zipp wheels he was riding, also a quick stationary demo, there was absolutely no delay at all. BR just needed something to write about !
Personally though. its the mk1 version and like most s/w its always worth waiting for the 2nd gen? but i ll stick to my mech setups.0 -
How complicated does the software have to be? Isn't it just up and down?
I seem to remember writing a program like that on the ZX Spectrum...!
Is the system always 'on' as in, is the Bluetooth type connection between the shifters and derailleurs always maintained? This would surely be battery hungry. Or does the shifter fire a comms burst only when pressed?
I'm no gamer, but isn't it true that pro gamers prefer cabled mice to wireless ones?
From what I've read elsewhere they're almost certainly using 802.15.4 for the radio and MAC layer stuff (this is the same as is used by the higher level ZigBee protocol). This is something I have a lot of experience with (I work for a chip manufacturer that produces 802.15.4 chips, and I write software for them, though I don't believe they're using our chip).
Chances are its doing something like this (simplified):
Shifter:
1) Wake up the CPU from sleep when the shift button is pressed (this will take a few milliseconds to start the crystal oscillator that runs it and provides the reference for the radio)
2) Restore context from non volatile memory (recover things like frame counters and values used to ensure encrypted messages always change, last channel used etc).
3) Figure out what just happened and what message needs to be sent
4) Create the shift message and figure out what channel the message should be sent on
5) Encrypt the message using AES128
6) Turn on the radio and wait for it to become ready (again, a few milliseconds wait, possibly done earlier so other things can be done whilst it comes up)
7) Perform clear channel assessment to ensure the radio channel is clear
8 ) Send the message
9) Wait for an acknowledgement, if none received, send again (more delay since random backoff's are required to avoid collisions with other devices doing the same).
10) Save the context back to non volatile memory
11) Go to sleep
Mech:
1) Receive the message and send an acknowledgement
2) See if it was destined for us, ignore if not
3) Decrypt it, ignore if not valid
4) Decode it and act on it
That is pretty much the least that it can be doing. Given that they have created a protocol with channel hopping, chances are its doing quite a bit more to ensure everything stays in sync and on the same channel at the same time.0 -
I think everyone has missed the point of what the BR review said, he didn't say there was a delay in shifting he said the speed at which the shift took place was slower than he was used to, ie the actual speed at which the dérailleur moved the chain, I do not interprete that as a delay.
I really like this and the more reviews I watch/read the more I think I'll take a punt on a system, one reservation is the lack of option to change both the front and rear dérailleur at the same time, but this may be possible I just don't see how.One plays football, tennis or golf, one does not play at cycling0 -
i'd been watching the rumours and pics of test units with interest, being able to remove cables, stops etc. cleans things up
the weight is quite high, especially for the fd, though maybe they can cut that further by the time it's released
the operational choice seems weird, replicating double-tap may've been too awkward, but spiltting the rd shifts left/right and using simultaneous l-r for the fd seems odd, i'm sure i'd develop the habit quick enough, but i wonder if the choice was driven competitors' patents (and the tendency of some patent offices to award patents on the obvious)my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0
