Over 130km/h on the Ventoux, is it possible?
davidof
Posts: 3,124
This guy claims it is
https://youtu.be/dI3UNU_n50U
he said he did it on the upper section with a 50km/h tail wind but we don't see a speedo or any gps data. Only the top three straights seem to offer any chance of speed before Chalet Reynard.
I calculated on the first straight after the cafe with the wide left hand bend (25secs) to the right hander (43secs) is 350 meters long and is covered at 70km/h.
The next straight with the road on the left (50secs) to the start of the left hander (61secs) is 275 meters and is covered at 89km/h, then to the left hander at 82 secs at 80km/h. I don't believe he goes over 95km/h on this section but can't say that for 100% sure.
From 95 secs to 104 secs ave of 70km/h. The km between the first km-stone and second km-stone (borne) is at 81km/h ave, which is quick.
The fastest speed on strava is around 85km/h. The descent is around 21km and the film lasts 21 minutes, the final few km are relatively flat.
Based on the km stones here are the splits for the first 6km to Chalet Reynard:
km 0 @ 36s
km 1 @ 80s - 80km/h
km 2 @ 128s - 75km/h
km 3 @ 177s - 73km/h
km 4 @ 228s - 71km/h
km 5 @ 285s - 63km/h
km 6 @ 344s - 61km/h (ave of 70km/h over first 6km) - just after Chalet Reynard
km 7 @ 402s - 62km/h
km 8 @ 448s - 78km/h
https://youtu.be/dI3UNU_n50U
he said he did it on the upper section with a 50km/h tail wind but we don't see a speedo or any gps data. Only the top three straights seem to offer any chance of speed before Chalet Reynard.
I calculated on the first straight after the cafe with the wide left hand bend (25secs) to the right hander (43secs) is 350 meters long and is covered at 70km/h.
The next straight with the road on the left (50secs) to the start of the left hander (61secs) is 275 meters and is covered at 89km/h, then to the left hander at 82 secs at 80km/h. I don't believe he goes over 95km/h on this section but can't say that for 100% sure.
From 95 secs to 104 secs ave of 70km/h. The km between the first km-stone and second km-stone (borne) is at 81km/h ave, which is quick.
The fastest speed on strava is around 85km/h. The descent is around 21km and the film lasts 21 minutes, the final few km are relatively flat.
Based on the km stones here are the splits for the first 6km to Chalet Reynard:
km 0 @ 36s
km 1 @ 80s - 80km/h
km 2 @ 128s - 75km/h
km 3 @ 177s - 73km/h
km 4 @ 228s - 71km/h
km 5 @ 285s - 63km/h
km 6 @ 344s - 61km/h (ave of 70km/h over first 6km) - just after Chalet Reynard
km 7 @ 402s - 62km/h
km 8 @ 448s - 78km/h
BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
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Decended on the 2 main slopes and never went far over 80 km/h.
130 is highly unlikely.0 -
Not qualified to comment on the actual speeds reached but the rider on youtube is Irishman Janos Kohler, multiple Red Bull Road Rage winner and former world number one at downhill road racing. He rides a special titanium downhill racing bike by Black Sheep of Colorado with a long wheelbase for stability, discs and twin blade reinforced forks. He gives what I feel are fairly convincing (and polite) replies to armchair strava sceptics on youtube.0
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Guy Martin set a gravity record at 138km/h - http://www.theengineer.co.uk/news/sheffield-hallam-university-helps-guy-martin-break-downhill-speed-record/1019504.article. Fully enclosed four-wheel recumbent on closed roads and he did crash at the end. Maybe it's possible on a regular bike with a strong enough tail wind and some pedal assistance.0
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Not qualified to comment on the actual speeds reached but the rider on youtube is Irishman Janos Kohler, multiple Red Bull Road Rage winner and former world number one at downhill road racing. He rides a special titanium downhill racing bike by Black Sheep of Colorado with a long wheelbase for stability, discs and twin blade reinforced forks. He gives what I feel are fairly convincing (and polite) replies to armchair strava sceptics on youtube.
Thanks for the info. The averages over the longer distances are impressive but from the video I don't think it is possible to be more precise.BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
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Cavendish reckons he did 124kph at the 2009 Tour de Suisse and says that Cancellara did 131kph on the same descent. If that's true then 138kph doesn't sound too unrealistic.0
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Decended on the 2 main slopes and never went far over 80 km/h.
130 is highly unlikely for anyone on a normal road bike..
Can you speak of any personal expierience?0 -
Without evidence I'd be sceptical, how is he measuring top speed? There are plenty of fearless descenders and most I know talk about top speeds in the low 60s I would think you'd need to be very aero to get 20mph on top of that.
The other thing is if the km splits above are accurate they don't tie in with someone topping 80mph.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
I've often come back from rides with blips on my top speed. I think this is likely here. GPS isnt accurate enough to record a max speed all of the time.0
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I've often come back from rides with blips on my top speed. I think this is likely here. GPS isnt accurate enough to record a max speed all of the time.
Totally. I never really notice them on the geared bikes, but sometimes on fixed I will have a max speed of 80+kph recorded somewhere during the day; which would be impressive as I am usually spun out at 55kph on fixed! I think particularly Garmins recording in smart mode can get a little tricked by higher speeds. Not suggesting that the guy wasn't going fast (80-100kph), but I reckon 130 will be a momentary blip.0 -
Indeed - its like the HR blips you get occasionally.
If he was really doing 130 then his trace would show him increasing gradually. Bet it doesn't.0 -
Maybe, he is using the road well, and carrying speed though, the bends.
How this was measured, though is good question GPS isn't good for peak speeds hence short strava segments having fantastic speeds even without smart recording etc.
older bike computers from memory are not immune from improbable speeds as well, so how it was measured is a valid question.0 -
Whether or not you are sceptical over the claimed speed on Ventoux, it's worth checking out Tutschel's videos on You Tube. They really are spectacular. One clip shows him descending the Galibier in the 2011 Etape du Tour on his custom downhill racing bike at a claimed GPS verified average of 57.22 km/h and top speed of 111 km/h. Tutschel (twice world number one downhill road racer Janos Kohler) makes the ordinary riders he overtakes look like they are standing still.
His riding certainly impresses me - but the way he overtakes cars and other riders would appear to leave little room for error.0 -
I think on Eurosport commentary they said once Sean Kelly had fastest descent on a certain hill at 124km/hr.
Would have thought you could get the extra 6 km on a bike designed for itTri Coaching
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I think the hill is more important than the bike. If you haven't the gradient and road to do it on - you won't be hitting huge speeds.0
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Indeed, most of the mods on his bike appear to be about stopping it and keeping it stable at speed. Rather him than me at that speed.Bianchi Infinito CV
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If someone knew the distance between the snow poles, you could easily approximate his speed, so long as the intervals were very regular.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0
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Looking at the riders position on the bike, helmet and clothing doesn't indicate high speeds to me - to get above 80kph+ on a descent for me requires a big power effort to start and tucking really low - not sitting-up catching airMake mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..0
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If someone knew the distance between the snow poles, you could easily approximate his speed, so long as the intervals were very regular.
They are at an average of around 20 meters but are not regular, being closer on the approach and around bends - presumably the snow plough needs more accurate points there.BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
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Hmm... what's the length of the Ventoux?seanoconn - gruagach craic!0
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Hmm... what's the length of the Ventoux?
on that side, 21 km I think.BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
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So given the start and finish, 21km in 19 minutes - a little over 66.4km/h average or 41.5mph. Not conclusive.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0
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So given the start and finish, 21km in 19 minutes - a little over 66.4km/h average or 41.5mph. Not conclusive.
The final kms are fairly flat too.BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
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I don't know why you are even debating this. No, that's the answer.
Mark Cavendish thinks he did 130kph for the same reason this guy does. Because his Garmin says so.0 -
I don't know why you are even debating this. No, that's the answer.
Mark Cavendish thinks he did 130kph for the same reason this guy does. Because his Garmin says so.
Quite! On the whole, decents are much more human/normal even for pro riders. Though this guy did seem to know what he was doing/taking some risks. But even so no.0 -
Meh, I average that speed riding up.0
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Looking at the riders position on the bike, helmet and clothing doesn't indicate high speeds to me - to get above 80kph+ on a descent for me requires a big power effort to start and tucking really low - not sitting-up catching air
this is very true, I descend reasonably well, and it is often about the launch, and then maintaining correct form on the bike. Weight helps as well.0 -
I don't know why you are even debating this. No, that's the answer.
Mark Cavendish thinks he did 130kph for the same reason this guy does. Because his Garmin says so.
Cav is only small and light - he wouldn't be one of the faster descenders in the peleton. I know big Sean Yates used to hit 70mph in the days of wired on computers. That sounds feasible.
80 is just a gps blip.0 -
If the Garmin was getting an intermittent signal, then it would appear quicker without the continuity.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0
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I don't know why you are even debating this. No, that's the answer.
Mark Cavendish thinks he did 130kph for the same reason this guy does. Because his Garmin says so.
Cav is only small and light - he wouldn't be one of the faster descenders in the peloton. I know big Sean Yates used to hit 70mph in the days of wired on computers. That sounds feasible.
80 is just a gps blip.
Yes, because by the bottom of a descent, all the small and light guys are at the back of the peloton and all the bigger heavier ones are at the front aren't they.0 -
Here's some physics for you Mfin.
http://www.vavaveteran.co.uk/downhill-physics/
If Cav was doing 80 then the bigger guys like Cancellara etc would be going faster as a rule - and they don't go that fast.0
